NPHC grade requirements?
 

So...I was looking through the stats for my school's Greek Life GPA stuff for last year, and noticed that for the overall chapter GPAs, 6 out of the bottom 8 (out of over 20 chapters) were NPHC...and of the other two, one was Sigma Lambda Gamma. Almost all of these chapter GPAs were under 2.5 and one was under a 2.0 by quite a bit. This led me to question whether NPHC chapters also differ from NPC and IFC academically - do your chapters have requirements to maintain a certain GPA to be active? What is it? Is it national or is it a local thing? If you go under, what happens? I figured if anyone would know, you all would :)

Thanks!

That is a question of mine too... the black fraternity GPA's are always absurdly lower than the rest of the pack...isn't there some sort of social probation? Always dealt at a local level?

I get the feeling that if we don't know about it, then maybe we're not supposed to know. Based on what I've seen with the different NPHC groups on GC, they just don't have their stuff put out there like other umbrella groups. Sometimes I think we could learn a lot about discretion from them.

NPHC business is NPHC business. :)

I posted and then deleted because I was getting into stuff that I don't think the OP meant to get into, but you can find some GPA requirement stuff on at least some of the NPHC groups. They don't necessarily say what it takes to stay in good standing, but you can find requirements to rush/intake.

One thing to keep in mind is the relatively small chapter size of some NPHC groups compared to NPC or NIC groups. If you have a small chapter, it might make more sense not to worry that much about average GPA since one or two people can affect it so much.

It's not only that -- because personally, I'm glad to answer non-ritual questions for the most part -- but more like jeez, what is there for us to really say on this particular matter?

If I talk about the disparities in high school preparation, we go off on a tangent about race and DSTCHAOS gets called Mrs. Rev. Wright again.

If I talk about smaller chapters + NPHC initiates typically already being active in MANY campus activities, that's another tangent which will lead to some NPC chick feeling offended because they think I'm saying white girls aren't active on campus.

If I talk about discretion, then we're "sitting together in the cafeteria" again.

I say go to the websites...hell, shoot them an email if you're so inclined.

BTW, not all of us on GC are even qualified to answer because some weren't initiated as undergrads.

You did that really well. I started going down the high school preparation path and realized it wasn't worth it and it's insulting to the NPHC members who did go to great schools.

It's kind of a shame when it's easier not to talk about something, especially something that probably is worth talking about.

Sen handled it, AFAIC.

but there are JUST as many schools where NPHC chapters GPAs are the highest of all greek. Im speaking for what I hear of SGRho chapters who win those "highest Greek GPA" awards (or whatever that school's equivalent is). Im sure other D9 orgs here can make the same claim for more than a few of their chapters.

-tld221
--graduated with a 3.3, initiated as an UG and of a small chapter (but you knew this already)

It'd be interesting to know.

It's also interesting to think about why women's averages are typically higher than men's.

Yes...yes...yes...I was going to ignore this thread.

But I will stick with the "smaller chapters mean that the GPA will be based on fewer people" explanation because that blows enough smoke up people's asses.

I'll also say that every recognized GLO on almost every campus not only has their organization's GPA requirements to remain active but also the school's requirements. I thought the OP was...interesting...but anyway.

interesting to know what? why some NPHC chapters have the highest GPAs on campus and why others have the lowest?

and well there are way more women in college than men, right? well not WAY more, but id say the ration is something like 60/40? and sorority chapters tend to be bigger than fraternity chapters, right? annnnnnnnnnnd if we really wanna generalize, lets just say that men's majors lean more towards hard sciences and women's majors into humanities and that a 3.0 in sciences takes more work than a 3.0 in say, art history.

(the snark, btw, is not aimed at you, but the general GC population)

The high school preparation discussion is a discussion of general patterns in education. It does not, and isn't intended to, apply to every member of a minority group.

So those of us who went to great schools wouldn't take offense. :)

You might be surprised. Any claim is apparently taken as a sweeping generalization that is intended to explain everything, rather than a possible explanation of trends.

I wouldn't be surprised. It depends on how the discussion is phrased. Even discussions of social trends and patterns (generalizations) can be taken to the extreme. There honestly are (white) people who are misinformed and their discussion of these topics shows that.

But most blacks are used to these types of dicussions so we don't get upset. We correct those who are wrong, inform folks, and move on. :)

Well, it'd be interesting to know if there is in fact a trend one way of the other for groups and GPAs. It's possible that you are correct and that most organization end up with approximately the same number of chapters with excellent GPAs as they do with low-ish GPAs.

And that might suggest that what might be true about k-12 schooling generally doesn't play out for the people who join NPHCs. Or if what the OP observes is true on other campuses, it might be further evidence of the issues that exist k-12 even with the most motivated members of NPHCs. Who knows?

But it is interesting, I think.

The girl and guy difference is true for non-greeks and even in high school so the possible explanations you've raised may not fully explain it, but it's interesting to me to think about.

this doesnt really make sense. countless times isnt it mentioned in NPC rush threads that HS GPAs can be a reflection of how a PNM would do her first year, but then again it be totally misleading? and that HS GPAs are used more often than not in bid selection?

and pray tell, what are these "issues" you speak of?

You might also consider that NPHC members generally join later in their college career when classes are getting tougher. Freshman/Sophomore years are all basic studies and are pretty easy but as you get into upper level courses Junior and Senior year, grades can go down some. I don't know if this is documented, but I know it was true for me. It was much easier to get a 4.0 in Speech 101 (freshman year) than in Neuroanatomy, Anatomy, and Physiology(Junior year).

also another good point, you expressed better than i wanted to.

and not that this reason is an excuse for poor grades, but smaller NPHC chapters make for resources being spread thin. ie. a chapter of 5, for example, has to attempt to do the work of what, at minimum 50-60 girls of an average NPC chapter to stay afloat. and often of that chapter of 5, some of those girls are involved with 50-11 other things on campus.

its never just classes, chapter, and partytime. grades get sacrificed often. and as mentioned above, law of averages.

I wasn't referring so much to the grades students earn as the level of preparation they might have received. They may be linked, but in some cases even the most motivated students good-grade-making students in high school are held back by the level of classes offered at their schools. When they get to the next level (college), they find out that other high schools taught more and demanded more, and they find themselves behind.

(This can also happen in reverse. We can all think of people who say college was easier than high school, but I think it happens a lot less frequently than kids going off to college lacking some skills.)

There are some people who see fundamental differences in the educational opportunities offered to most white students k-12 and those offered to most minority students, particularly when you contrast majority white schools with majority black or Hispanic schools.

(It's may not be that the educational opportunities within schools are that different by race although you can find studies that suggest they are. It's that a gap can exist in what the schools offer their student to choose from.)

So, if it were true that a difference existed in greek groups' GPAs, it might be tied to the educational opportunities those students had before they arrived in college. And if there are general trends in educational opportunities that are tied to race and membership in certain groups is traditionally linked with race, it would not be entirely surprising to see a relationship of some kind.

Or it might just be that the kids at the OPs campus are slackers.

So NPCs would get the GPA "cushion" of 1/4 to 1/2 of their members taking easier classes? That's an interesting idea.

ETA: It sort of seems like this effect would partially be canceled out by pledging people before they proved themselves academically, and now, I think the majority of NPCs even initiate before the first college grades are in. Does anyone know if the general college GPA trend is up or down as a student moves through classes? Major level classes are harder, but I think the students who are in them are usually serious enough to compensate with more hard work.

As someone who was initiated via undergrad during my sophomore year, your findings are related to that of your university and it only speaks to the chapters at your school. My undergrad chapter was always among those with the highest gpa's at my school and I'm sure this is the case at many schools. I will say that it can indeed be challenging to fulfill sorority/fraternity duties and keep your grades high when your chapter is small and therefore there are less hands available to do what is required. Also sometimes chapters can take on more than they are truly able to and instead of creating calendars with less activity, they try to do everything.

As for required gpa's, all of the NPHC orgs have national gpa's that all chapters must adhere to. In my org, it is possible for a chapter to have a local gpa that is higher than the national but never lower than the national. The idea of a chapter not achieving the national gpa is not taken lightly and consequences are enforced, although this doesn't necessarily mean that a chapter would be prohibited from engaging in all activities. For the gpa's of each org, visit the national websites.

:rolleyes:

yeah, well the white fraternities common sense is always absurdly lower than the rest of the pack.

-tld221
--do you see the stupid isht they do? sheesh.

Oh, and yes NPCs look at GPAs for membership evaluation. And sometimes it turns out that a straight A high school kid can't do well with college level work, but I suspect that more often than not, good students continue to be good students and slackers continue to be slackers.

I also think that GPA is one of the areas in which NPC groups really like to compete to the level that it might affect individual behavior.

And if a group valued service or campus involvement more that being #1 in grades, then it would be hard to compete with the chapter that partially defined themselves by always being at the top of the GPA list.

Sometimes it does seems like a year can't go by on any campus where one of the white fraternities doesn't prove this right.

Reading through the risk management forum kind of shows it.

But, of course, it's not true for all of them.

while being known as "the greek org with the highest GPA" is awesome, if the motivation is "because we win" and not because, well you want to get good grades anyway....

i kinda cant buy that. getting good grades takes effort and doesnt happen overnight. at the same time, early on, one blemish can totally screw up a GPA. lets say youre a frosh and youve got a near perfect first semester--a B+ screwed up your otherwise straight-A semester. but then you bomb out that second time around (unlikely, but lets say this student gets like D's and F's), that GPA drops to what, something under a 3.0? not bad i suppose, but youve gotta have a couple awesome semesters to catch up. as in, youd need to get straight A's for the next few semesters to get back up to what you had that first semester.

or it can happen in reverse: you bomb out first semester and then you play catch up for the next few semester to prove you can cut it.

and to make this circular, this froshie, with her 2.something in a house of 3.something-plus house may not affect the overall house GPA, but in a smaller chapter, surely.

Que?

Oh, and that's "Que" as in the Spanish word translating to "what" and not the suggestion that members of Omega Psi Phi, or "Ques", is the embodiment of what you suggest. (I went to a good high school ;) )

You know, the more I think about this thread, I have questions for the OP. Such as... WHY?

But, I've been on GC since '01 and have come to realize that it is the GC way to swerve out of your lane. http://www.pledgepark.com/images/smilies/driving.gif

omg that emoticon FTW.

I think all NPC have ideals that value scholarship, so it's not contrary in any way for them to value getting good grades, but I do really think that for some chapters, GPA is really emphasized more than at others. And I think once you are number one, it's really hard to face falling to three or four, so the really competitive chapters may be less interested in a girl who is a "grade risk" during recruitment and then they start self selecting for high grades maybe more than other chapters.

(Although all chapters want girls with good grades, I think, and to be honest, the whole process kind of self selects for the same type of good-grade making, involved on campus type of person.)

And NPCs typically are bigger, so one or two girls aren't going to pull their average down that much, absolutely.

But you know, it seems like we're almost accepting that NPC grades would be higher when we really don't have conclusive evidence of that. That's what I mean about it generally being interesting. If it were true, these might be the reasons.

It might turn out that all NPHC groups have higher average GPAs nationally than the NPC and NIC groups. And it would be equally interesting to speculate about why that would be true. Would smaller chapters inspire a person to work harder in class because he or she is one of the few representatives of the group? Is it that the legacy of perseverance and triumph that some of the groups have inspires at a deep level? It it that only the academic creme de la creme join NPHCs, so the average high school experience by race doesn't matter? Is it that by joining later, you'd be more serious?

I'm all about continuing to talk about this but what "what" should I try to explain?

ETA: looking back, I think you may mean the guy and girl differences. At the high school level generally, and at the college level where I've see statistics reported, girls and women have higher average GPAs than boys and men do.
(I have no idea what this means for the transgendered.) There's getting to be a little push-back to schools being worried about gender equity for females by people who trot out these stats and suggest that maybe our current education methods are bad for boys. In my experience, girls are more interested in pleasing other people (probably because they are socially conditioned to), and I think grade differences are a reflection of this effort to please the teacher and their parents, and boys are probably learning about the same amount of stuff but don't care that much about the details that would lead to higher grades.

:)

We already know that this is one of "those" threads. :)

...

I really wish there was a collection of threads that we could just point people to where this topic has been discussed in some form. What a boring topic.

But is a comparison in anyone's lane?

It's not just about NPHC policy really.

That value is echoed in the NPHC as well. (side note: I've never spoken in terms of the NPHC outside of GC. In UG and beyond, it was just about Delta! :) )

You're pondering pretty hard on an issue that is very campus-specific. The OP should go ask those chapter members why their GPA is so low then report his/her findings.

Go back and read the first post...

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest that other groups didn't value scholarship. I was just clarifying that when groups were out to make good grades, it wasn't just about showing other people up. The competition may be enjoyable when you are at the top, but it does serve the overall values too.

Well, the topic might be campus specific, it might be part of a broad trend, or it might be an exception to the trend. But it's tied to a pretty important issue in terms of trends in educational achievement.

Nah but this is just a...strange topic.

And the OP is...strange...and operated from a strange premise. The title is...strange because I was about to tell the person to look up our GPA requirements for pursuing membership and move on. I figured it was obvious that all GLOs are held to some academic standard at every school that has academic standards for students and GLOs. Why would NPHC orgs not be held to a GPA standard?

(I'm not even concerned with the different explanations for why GPAs vary.)

I can see you are right and the OP does ask that.

Would we really be better off has she not wondered?

I think it helps the reputation of all groups for people to understand that even if the chapter on your campus isn't doing well scholastically, the national organization does value it.

But this thread is just about NPHC chapters that certain folks have observed. Nothing much to discuss that hasn't already been discussed. And why this person is wondering about the "educational achievement" of the NPHC chapters in question is beyond my comprehension.