Alabama Recruitment Prediction (Fall 2008)
 

Prediction of number of fall 2008 pledges at Bama:

http://media.www.cw.ua.edu/media/sto...-3389881.shtml

excerpt:
the 2008 recruitment class is predicted to be one of the largest in UA history.

"This is shaping up to be another record year for recruitment at the Capstone," said Gentry McCreary, director of greek affairs.

The Department of Greek Affairs at the University of Alabama predicts that more than 1,500 women and 900 men will pledge a greek organization in the fall.

In 2008, 20 percent of the UA student body belonged to one of the 54 greek organizations represented on campus.


I guess we'll see fairly soon, since Bama's NPC sorority recruitment kicks off in a month.

Edited to add: 1,500 women and 900 men: seems like a substantial disparity, but if that's what Greek life is like at Bama, so be it. Any insights about why so many more women than men are expected to go Greek there?

In my opinion, the fraternity and sorority systems are very different. The fraternities have an informal recruitment process in the fall, but it is not well advertised, attended or enjoyed. They just recruit guys that they know from high school and family friends. And well, there has been enough talk about the sororities so you know how that works. There are WAY more IFC (mid-20s) fraternities than NPC sororities (now 16) and they tend to be 1/2 to 2/3 the size of the sororities. The fraternities are also much more expensive than the sororities. Your larger, more established fraternities (by this I mean the one's with corp. board houses instead of university owned housing) are anywhere from 2500-5000 a semester. The sororities hover in the 2000 range. Keep in mind that these houses have meal plans that bump up cost. The fraternities have been working really hard to build up numbers to accommodate the increase in enrollment and the growing sorority population. A few years ago, the largest fraternity probably wasn't even half the size of the average sorority. So, they are working on evening things out. It just takes time.

It's similar in disparity to ours, I believe.

This projection of total PNMs isn't surprising if you consider that over the past decade+ the percentage of Greek students has steadily hung around 20-24%. The University has been growing the student population over the same period, thus an equivalent number of students pursuing Greek life.

True that...I don't consider 20% a particularly high ratio, either. 25% would be a little more normal...40-50% exceptionally high!
20% greek means, of course that 80% of the student body is NOT greek.

Just wondering, do those figures represent dues only, room and board only, or dues + room + board?

Dues only, for Arkansas.

Yeah, that's about what I thought. I asked about this last year during recruitment. I remember during my college days in the late 1980's, the percentage of undergrad females in a sorority at the Capstone was 33, 34, and 33% for three straight years, percentages comparable to my alma mater, Ole Miss (which of course, has a super strong social greek system, I believe the highest percentage of undergrads socially greek of any public university in America most every year). Yet the Bama' fraternity percentage those years was 19 or 20% compared to the 30ish range at Ole Miss. I wondered why the big difference. I didn't think that many more girls than guys just happened to be interested in greek life at Alabama. You explained the Capstone fraternity situation well, and at Ole Miss, as I pointed out last year, fraternities have one of the most formalized recruitment structures anywhere, a three-round process held at the same time as sorority recruitment; and perhaps most importantly, (as I'd known before but didn't realize the significance of until later) have a formal recruitment feature where if you get invited back to any final round party at any fraternity, you automatically have a bid to that fraternity if you want it. Well, as you can imagine, particularly with popular fraternities, a lot of guys WILL take an automatic bid if they get the chance. It seems pretty clear to me that these two things help ensure that Ole Miss fraternity numbers are among the highest in the nation and not much lower than the sorority numbers.

I wonder how much higher Alabama fraternity numbers would be if they did most all their recruiting formally and especially if they had the automatic bid feature I just described?

It is dues and board (food). Living in the fraternities is a huge range. Some of the newer houses are equal to the cost of living in a dorm - several hundred a month. However, some of the older houses are REALLY CHEAP. I know of one house that charges $50 a semester to live there...I don't think the conditions could be very good...

It would never happen. You might could do a more formalized recruitment but an automatic bid system would not fly. The fraternity men and alumni would flip out (and they donate way too much money to the university and the chapters to make them mad).

Oh, I'm certain you're right there, (that makes it very interesting to me that that feature exists at "middle name greek" Ole Miss, just has always been that way I guess!) just wondering what the numbers would be at Bama' if it were so!?

Annual chapter dues for active AOII members are $1,200 at Arkansas. That's in the ballpark of most other campus chapters.

Room and board figures are all over the place at Arkansas though. The more established chapters have much lower prices because their houses are paid off (for the most part). New construction in Fayetteville is very pricey, and the AOIIs with the new house are looking at roughly $9,000 per year for a double.

Back to the original topic. FYI as of this morning Bama has 1406 PNMs registered with about 2 1/2 weeks to go before Recruitment starts. Last year (2007) we had 1410 total.

WOWSERS! Looks like it's going to be a great year! I can't wait to hear what quota will be!

Aren't we glad they are set to expand with two groups soon?

Wow.

Can I hijack: why don't they do the expansion recruitment during regular recruitment at Alabama? It seems like it'd be a lot better to recruit girls before regular recruitment might have somewhat disappointed them. I know there's a presentation, right? Why not do the whole thing?

I'm just thinking that starting recruitment after the groups have bid 1400 women doesn't leave that many women who are interested in being Greek in the pool.

Theoretically, there will be people who drop out because they are interested in the colony, plus there will be women who have been cut. I wouldn't be surprised if there are rushees who are even less open minded about the groups because they figure "I can join a colony and make it my own and not have to put up with these jagoffs judging me." Of course that's not the whole case.

Plus, if you go from regular recruitment to colony recruitment, it's a little jarring, and not all the women will get it. A sorority at my school attempted to do this with alumnae doing the rushing and I think it laid your basic egg.

Not only that but you want a variety of class standings within the colony. (Sometimes reflective of the current groups.) You can't get that with a primarily freshmen recruitment. Another thing is that a good number of women who join colonies may never have gone through recruitment before for a variety of reasons. It is a great misconception that colonies pick-up all the "recruitment leftovers". Not that anyone here has said that but I have heard that comment IRL.

Colonization recruitment within the context of FR can work on some campuses but definitely not all.

I don't really know of course, but I think Alabama is likely to be one of the places where it might work better.

I'm afraid for the new chapters that there aren't that many people on campus who are good candidates for Greek life who aren't already Greek or who couldn't go through formal recruitment because they have a separate junior quota. I sort of use perceptions of COR as part of my standard here.

The chapters are huge, so we're talking about trying to get up to 200+ members relatively quickly so you're not at a huge weakness when the colony does do formal. I wasn't thinking about filling the whole chapter during formal, but starting with 80 or so, which I think was the ballpark for last year's quota seems like a great start.

And even if you could recruit an awesome group of women from people who wanted nothing to do with formal recruitment, won't that be a big disadvantage when you have to turn around an recruit in formal the next year? You don't just need good people, you need good people who will be able to recruit other good people with the methods that are successful on that campus.

33Girls, I do take your point about some PNMs holding out for the colony instead of taking what they see as somehow a "lesser" bid during formal, but I just wonder if there will be enough of them who are actually well qualified PNMs to form as good a chapter than if you participated in formal and they knew they could get the whole Bid Day experience too.

I certainly hope I'm wrong. And I bet there are some great girls who have no idea how big Greek life is at Alabama until they get there and have missed recruitment, but I just think it makes a challenging process even more challenging not to participate.

Is it the existing but smaller chapters who prefer that colonies recruit after formal or is it the preference of colonizing groups?

I think that there are probably more women at Bama (and other similar schools) than we realize who enjoyed doing formal rush and that sort of recruitment who may have just had bad luck - getting paired w/ a sister they had nothing in common with, missing a party for this or that reason - and didn't get a bid because of that. At a smaller school they could probably rush again and get a bid - to a top chapter - and be a great member. But at Bama those top chapters can have classes full of freshmen without having to consider anyone else so that's not going to happen. Those are the kind of people they want to get in a colony - who are on a par w/ any other sorority member there but "fell through the cracks."

Obviously I have no idea what the new colonies plan to use as their GPA cutoffs, but I know for a fact that a lot of fabulous PNMs get cut by the established Chapters because they just missed the minimum GPA, which is typically well above the Inatl minimums. This group of women would be worth looking at by a colony and would give those PNMs a great opportunity they otherwise might not have.

But the number of women who see recruitment through and don't get bids is really tiny and you have upperclassmen/person quota so actually you could re-rush at Bama more easily than at the rest of the SEC, I think.

I'm certainly not saying that the colonies won't be successful. I fully expect them to be and I think that the groups expanding there will understand what they need to do.

I just see recruiting after formal as being harder than participating in it and I wondered why it happens like this.

Do you think they'd be less likely to end up in the colony if the expansion group did formal rather than waited?

It seems to me that it would be easier and more exciting for the PNMs to be able to find the colony the way you've described if it happened during formal.

AlphaPhi Startup
 

Sorry if this has already been covered but one thing Alpha Phi made clear at Alabama Panhellenic weekend was they would try to pick up equal numbers of seniors, juniors, sophs and freshmen. The reason for this is they don't want to load up with a bunch of freshmen which would all graduate in four years leaving a big void. So with that said think about all the girls who have transferred to BAMA and found it tough to get a bid during regular recruitment.

Also a big perk Alpha Phi is offering is that no girls currently live in their house so it is wide open and I believe dorm contracts can be broken to accommodate girls who would like to move into the Alpha Phi house.

Having never witnessed a colonization process before I really have no idea if one way would be better than another. A big drawback to fully participating in formal Recruitment I forsee are the numbers would be significantly skewed towards Freshmen. At least at Bama, elsewhere might be different.

Even though Bama has an upperclassmen quota, the percentage of freshmen is still really high. I'd have to look up the exact figures from last year, but I'd guess freshmen made up roughly 90% of all PNMs who registered. If I'm not mistaken quota was 73 freshmen and 7 upperclassmen, so 10% upperclassmen sounds about right. Every year that number is growing though.

I expect Alpha Phi to attract a wide variety of potential new members. Sure there will be some who have gone through formal Recruitment either this year or years past and didn't find a home for whatever reason. I also foresee it being intriguing to women who never even contemplated being Greek before. The idea of creating something new is very exciting. There may be others who would love to be Greek but the whole Bama competitive formal Recruitment process is/was so intimidating they never participated. I could go on and on.

FreshmanDAD, are you saying Alpha Phi already has a house ready for occupancy? That is awesome. That, I think makes a big difference in their colonial success. A place to call home!

From what I understand (Zillini please chime in!), Alpha Phi will lease the Sigma Delta Tau house temporarily. This is a rather small house, so no one may live there, OR just a small number of girls. I believe Sigma Delta Tau's chapter still exists at Alabama, but they have not occupied their house in several years. In fact, a couple of fraternities have rented the house while theirs was being built.

I'm assuming it is being redecorated! :eek:

Here's what we did at Auburn: the colonizing team was composed of a couple of international officers, collegiate development consultants, and, I think, a local alum or two. They interviewed over 2 days, and issued invitations to come back for a second interview. There was an actual pref ceremony by our Mississippi State chapter. The board selected those who would receive bids. They were shooting for average chapter size, which came out to a little on the lower side, but not terribly far off. That's rough, but that's the jist of it. And Alphi Phi will probably do it differently - everybody has their own way.

Now, numbers...I believe last year Alabama had around 1,200 PNMs? Quite a few are released or drop out because they don't get what they want. That will be the biggest problem - PNMs who think that if they don't get AAA, BBB, or CCC, or at least, uh, EEE, that they'll drop out.
So if this year there are 1,400 already signed up...well, there are PLENTY of good PNMs out there for Alpha Phi to pledge!:D

Una pregunta, por favor?

For the PNMs that get dropped (or dont accept bids), is it just free reign to colonize and pledge (APhi, for example)? or is there some informational and invite process, similar to NPHC?

i would think that you'd be a little more selective in choosing women to be founding members - its a lot of work (and a little different, for the first few years in the way they recruit and interact) and id hope that org would want strong PNMs (ie. the "fell through the cracks" women). you get that by having an invite-type selection vs. "hey sign up if you wanna be APhi!"

The process is usually different.. I know for Chi O, they went through regular recruitment but then had a separate colonizing recruitment. There is an informational, an invite process then a "bid day".

And yes, it is a lot more selective. I know nearly 200 girls went through the separate colonizing recruitment for Chi O and of those, only 30 or so were selected. They advertised but it was not a 'anyone' can get in. But I can't imagine colonizing at Bama!

In the case of the Auburn colonization (I can only speak for that experience and a couple of others), believe me, it was still selective! There was a general convocation (an informational, as lillady said) where everyone was invited. The colonizing team made a Power Point-type presentation, and team members spoke, and women were asked to sign up for an interview time. Candidates went through at least 2 rounds of interviews and also submitted information forms. Also, while the colonizing team was interviewing, an alumnae team was rounding up sponsor forms on the candidates.
No, not everyone who signed up was asked to join. Some were not asked back to the second interview, and some didn't show up for the second interview. One or two turned down their bid...guess they figured they didn't want to devote the time to it.
The resultant class was outstanding in their accomplishments, both academic and extracurricular.

See?;) Very similar process!
Why not colonize at Alabama?:D There's a need...you gotta start somewhere! It's just on a bigger scale, plus you've got the added burden of having to build or renovate a big house. :rolleyes:
But it can be done.

Not that I know how other groups execute a colonization recruitment, but I know from my experience at the University of Arkansas, what you are suggesting would have never worked. I would suspect that Bama would have similar issues.

It would be unfair to the colonizing group to "compete" against the existing, established, sororities during FR. In a colony recruitment you don't have cute girls doing door chants and bumping and doing MS. It is a very different approach and would likely not go over well with your average 18 year-old PNM. I know at Arkansas we had another SEC chapter of ours come in and do a cutesy party during the first round of FR, but colony recruitment (which took place after FR) is completely alumnae. It is fun, but definitely more a series of informational events, activities, and interviews. I don't think too many PNMs are brave enough to cut an existing group to take a chance on the new one that isn't presenting itself in the same way. It might work out if PNMs didn't have to make cuts during recruitment, but since they do, I would highly suspect that the colonizing group would meet the chopping block right off the bat with a great many PNMs. You know that most PNMs truly believe that they will be one of the lucky ladies that gets a bid to the absolute top sorority on campus. Until they learn otherwise, they aren't realistic enough to cut that group in favor of a colonizing group. I think this was a HUGE issue at Arkansas which has so much Greek history and PNMs know which chapters they want before they step foot on campus. It creates an immediate disadvantage for a group that obviously doesn't have that recognition on campus. I would think Bama with its Old Row would have similar issues. The colony needs to have its own time to shine and show what it has to offer. That's my opinion.

Additionally, the point that has already been made is very important and that is about getting a mix of classes. You just can't take a bunch of freshmen exclusively. Although Bama has a separate quota for juniors, I would think most PNMs would be freshmen, not leaving enough of a pool of upperclass girls. I know many of the terrific upperclasswomen we took at Arkansas would never have gone out for us if they had to go through FR. They weren't, for the most part, girls who had previously rushed and "failed." Most of them never rushed and didn't want to. (Intimidated by the process, not interested in the chapters on campus, etc.)

Just my oinions after participating in a big SEC colonization. If everyone on campus who is a good fit for Greek Life is already spoken for after FR, the colony isn't necessary.

You all are almost certainly right. It just seemed to me that there's be some advantages to participating in formal too, rather than instead of only colonization recruitment after. (I kind of imagined that you could do both, but maybe you can't)

As I said earlier, I expect the expansion recruitments to be very successful; it just seemed that not doing formal made it harder.

You are exactly right. SDT still owns their house but hasn't had the numbers to support living in it for quite a while now. They have allowed the University to rent it out. It is not very big and can't house very many to live in, but it is right on Sorority Row.

This past Monday I attended a Panhellenic Recruitment meeting and our Greek Advisor said Alpha Phi was working fast and furious with the contractors to get the SDT house redecorated prior to the 1st round of Recruitment. They will be building a house of their own and are using the SDT house in the meantime. The GA said if it's not completed in time, they will use a room in the stadium. (FYI for those who aren't familiar with this campus, the stadium is right behind Sorority Row.) They plan on participating in 1st round "Ice Water Tea", then will drop out. The GA said they are bringing in many actives from other campuses as well as alums to help out.

Through out the remainder of formal Recruitment they will have an information location/table set up. Since we have so many PNMs Bama has added several extra parties to each round. This gives the PNMs "off" parties. Hopefully some will use that time to go chat with the Alpha Phi's. Even if those particular PNMs aren't interested, they may know other women who might be and can pass along the information.

After formal Recruitment is over Alpha Phi will then begin their actual recruiting. I haven't heard anything about this lately and admit I haven't thought about asking. (Note to self - need to find out if this is indeed accurate.) During one of the initial meetings regarding expansion, Panhellenic said that after Bid Day the existing chapters would be given a specific time period to snap/COR up to Quota and/or Chapter Total. After that there will be a moritorium on pledging new members. (How long?) This allows Alpha Phi to recruit without competition. With Delta Gamma coming next I assume it will be similar. (Another thing to check on.)

AlphaPhi Startup
 

I am not sure how big the SDT now AlphaPhi house is at Bama as I have only seen the exterior of the house but at Panhellenic weekend the AlphaPhi advisor made a big point that girls could live in the house this fall and the number I recall was something like 35. The AlphaPhi advisor also made it sound like they were putting a lot of money into the SDT house so I assume they will be there for a few years. I may be wrong on this but got the impression Alpha Phi had purchased or signed a long term lease on the SDT house and planned on that being their permanent home. Either way they will have a house in the fall on Sorority Row that they can use as a selling point.

My daughter is going through rush at Bama so I will try to let everyone know how things turn out for Alpha Phi from a PNMs perspective.

I had no clue Alpha Phi was colonizing at Bama this fall! I met some Bama Tri Delts at a fraternity formal this past spring and they mentioned it, but I hadn't heard anything through Alpha Phi so I figured nothing was going on. How exciting!! We don't have any southern chapters outside of NC and TX so this is big!

Hey Zillini,
What's the word on expanding sorority row with new houses? Has it been decided yet who gets to build?
BTW, DG goes on in 2010...so we are hoping Alpha Phi does well!

Alpha Phi is also colonizing at Georgia Tech as well. :)

It's pretty exciting, and I expect them to do really well there.

I'm hopeful that maybe Alpha Phi can come to UGA if it expands, and we'll have the Syracuse Triad represented.

It's pretty cool that Bama will have it.

(Tech will still need Gamma Phi Beta for it, but maybe someday.)

There was a post in another thread where someone from Bama said A Phi will be in the SDT house till 2010, by that time their new house will be built and then DG will go into the SDT house.

From your lips to God's ears . . .

No offense to DG, but on behalf of my SDT family and friends I hope that the SDT chapter can return to its house.