financial issues
 

Alrighty, well this fall I will be a senior, and I just got my SAT scores back and found out that I qualify for automatic admissions at Texas A&M (my dream school). That was quite a relief, for like 3 seconds, because then my parents started freaking about the costs. Due to a divorce and some really sucky divorce lawyers, my parents will not be helping me pay for my education. Because of this i am aware of and fine with the fact that student loans and debt is an unavoidable part of my future. I've been looking at places like myrichuncle.com just to kinda get the feel for student loans and such. Last year I really started looking into greek life and I think that it is something i really want to be apart of. I also know it has dues. They advertise that some student loans will be sent to you not the school, for any educational costs (such as room board transportation books etc,) would sorority dues fall into that category? I'm pretty sure that I could make the argument that it is beneficial to my educational expierence but I just wanted to check with people that would know before I get my hopes up or anything. I know it may be a smidge early to worry about this, but I'm just a worrier by nature. Thanks for your help!:)

I agree to check with the loan company. "Dues" can encompass a lot of things, including room, board and meals if the chapter has a house facility. Because that takes the place of you living in the residence halls (which is generally considered room and board), that *might* be covered. The amount that is paid to the organization's headquarters or is used for social or other chapter officer expenses may not be.

From someone in the same sitch...
 

I am currently paying for my education myself as well---and I had to take out additional loans than my scholarships and federal loans---and I use my additional loans to pay for my dues because, like you said, they come to me...my loan company doesn't really care what you are using the money for, I just have to prove that I am a full time student(by printing an official copy of my sched).:) Hope that helps.

Try to get Stafford loans through the government. There are many, many loan forgiveness programs out there, but most of them only forgive government loans. If you go to work in certain fields, such as teaching, or any of the public service fields, you may qualify for loan forgiveness. (I am a teacher in a title I public school, for example, and all my loans were forgiven) The Los Angeles Times had an article about this a few days ago (in the business section)- just google LA Times, and go from there. Also, for sorority dues, maybe you could work part time? (again, that worked well for me)

I'm a pell grant recipient and I'm in a sorority. It's not easy. And honestly, it's not smart. I shouldn't have gone through recruitment at all, and I have really struggled to pay for the cost of a sorority, even with a LOT of loans. But I really, really wanted to be in a sorority and now I can't imagine not being in one.

Are your parents helping you at all financially? Mine refuse to pay for anything other than Christmas presents. If yours are giving you some help but just can't dole out the thousands it costs to go to college, it may be more reasonable.

If you can get federal loans, do it. Private loans are much higher interest and will haunt you for 20+ years.

My sorority has house fees AND dues. I can use my loans to pay the house fees because they are part of my room and board (this is probably more legitimate now that I'm living in the house, but liveouts still pay for meals there, which would be considered "board"). The dues are only a couple hundred dollars per semester and can be paid with a good old fashioned job.

no, i'm getting no help from my parents. they would if they could, but they just aren't able. does not having a lot of money hurt my chances of joining a sorority? would it cause me to be looked at differently than others? i know the steryotype of rich sorority girls is just that, but generally steryotypes stem from a bit of truth...

The most important thing is that you can meet your financial obligations. Sure, there may be groups that could look down upon those who are not as financially fortunate, but those are probably women you wouldn't feel comfortable being sisters with anyway. Good luck to you (in spite of the fact that you'll be an Aggie heh heh!)

Trust me...loans do NOT follow what you spend the money on, because all they care about is the interest they get when you pay it back. I'm currently paying for more than half of my education and no loan company has ever asked me what my "education expenses" consisted of. They basically consider anything you need money for while in college to be an "educational expense".

Just make sure it is something you are REALLY finding worth doing...depending on your chapter, dues can be HIGH and sometimes taking out that much more of a loan will be something you regret in the long run...taking out debt for a sorority is a huge decision.

I am impressed, justme920, that you are mature enough to be weighing financial implications as a high school junior. You are a smart girl with a good head on your shoulders (and you are not worrying about this too early.) We need people like you in the greek system.

Having said that, however, I really hope that you carefully weigh the advice of the posters before me. Belonging to a sorority on top of paying for college costs can get terribly expensive. I really worry about kids getting out of school these days with overwhelming school loans. Will the degree that you are pursuing prepare you for a fairly lucrative career? You really need to crunch the numbers. If you get out earning only, say, $35K a year and you have $50K in student loans, that can be very discouraging and take a seeming eternity to pay off. And remember, government student loans are not bankruptable. They will follow you forever.

We are probably all aware of girls that have deactivated because the financial costs have been too high. That's not a good situation for either the girl or the house.

Certainly just because you can get additional loan money does not necessarily mean that you should. You need to very carefully consider the additional enjoyment of belonging to a sorority vs. the years of paying off the loans that will follow. Good luck to you.

Is there an adult in your life who could sit down with you and help you figure this out? I know I could have avoided a lot of costly mistakes if my parents or SOMEONE would have given me some guidance.

i hope to major in biology. depending on how my anatomy class goes this year i may take the pre med route, but other wise i will major in bio and hopefully go on and get a masters afterwards.with the bit of research i've done, i can make a decent living with that. i am the only one in my family in 50years to go to college so i cant get a whole lot of help there. Especially since my great uncle who went to college is in buisness and thinks anything but is a waste. I may be being immature about this, but college loans and such dont scare me. It seems like its a good investment. Loans obviously aren't my first choice but if i had to pick between school or not having debt i would definently pick school. I know sorority life isnt a requirement, but just to pick a number, say dues are 2K/year and I work part time for some of it, is 6-7K really make that much difference? It seems like to me if i'm gonna leave school in debt, i might as well get the expierence out of it that i want? what do you think? is it worth it? does an extra 6 make a signficant difference?

Don't forget all the CRAZY interest you'll be paying.

My biggest concern about my own loans is that, even on a 20-year repayment plan, I may not be able to afford my minimum monthly payments. There are people out there (lots of them!) who graduate and get good jobs and still end up using A THIRD of their income to pay back these loans! That's money that should be going into your retirement fund, or your childrens' college fund.

Fortunately, you have time to mull all this over and make your decision when the time comes. But PLEASE don't take student loan debt lightly.

My sororities dues (which are the highest on campus from what i know) are about $1300 a year, but you have to factor in things like t-shirts, other fundraisers (most charge a $5 entry fee, to raise money, duh, and though it doesn't seem significant...it adds up!!), basically, hidden fees...things that you don't think about when you think of the cost of your sorority. So, total, while I'm paying just $1300 annually, in the end it may be closer to $2,000.

And to me, it is worth it, because I'm at such a HUGE school. I transferred here knowing no one, so its helped me out a whole lot with that. But, when rushing, make sure that you really, really, really think about it. If you feel like you want to accept a bid not because you feel at home but because you "want to be in a sorority," then don't do it. Trust me, i know people who have done that an inevitably ended up dropping.

$6k in debt can actually end up being around $7k in debt, depending where you get your loan. DEFINATELY start applying NOW for scholarships---though these probably won't get you money for sorority dues, they WILL pay for tuition, which could free up money for you for sorority dues. Try fastweb.com...its definately the best one I've found. Also look at estudentloans.com for loan comparisons.

The best advice I can give you is to start saving now. Think about if you REALLY need that starbucks or those really cute shoes that probably will only go with one outfit--because the money you could save instead of spending on those, even though it will only make a difference of a few dollars, could be money you could put towards sorority dues or college tution. It does add up, trust me. I transferred out-of-state from an in-state school (where i didn't pay for anything, because my dad did) and now I'm going to be in about $50k-$70k in debt when i get out, and saving up was something that I really wish I had done in high school--you'd be surprised, because while you say now that you will have a part time job, sometimes when you get to school, you realize that your schedule really can't handle more than a few hours per week. And while every bit helps, so does saving now instead of paying later.


sorry this was a freaking book/lecture, i just wish this was stuff someone told me before i went to college.

Don't get loans through myrichuncle.com. They have some crazy fee you don't find out about until the end. Go through your school, and the FAFSA form.

Work in the summertime and save up money for dues. If you can handle it, get a part time job during the school year that will still allow you to study and have some free time.

I attended a state school, and was in a similiar situation. I had loans, no family help and I also worked. As I got further along in school, I had less free time between class, work and interning. However, I justified the sorority costs by living in the house, and it was certainly a lot cheaper to live-in. It was a lot of fun, too.

Find out the cost of dues and look at your other costs. Ask mom and dad if they'll at least give you a food allowance once you leave the nest. Go through recruitment knowing what you can afford.

Justme, I'm going to give you some unasked-for advice. And that is to be really, really, cautious about student loan debt.

Don't think in terms of a major/degree at this point. Think in terms of what you really want to DO. Marine biology? Plant research? Teaching? Pharmaceutical sales? Or...? Then contact people who are doing what you think you might like to do. Ask them for an information interview. Ask them what they like about their job...what they dislike...what they would have done differently in terms of preparing for their career. Also ask them about the salary range for their type of work. I think you will find their responses enlightening. IMO you should do this because you are about to invest tens of thousands of dollars of your money. If you were investing this much in a stock, wouldn't you do your homework? Why not now?

Your student loan debt should be proportional to what you expect to earn. Someone getting an M.B.A. from Stanford Business School can take on an insane amount of debt because in all likelihood they will be earning a high income...both right away, and down the road. On the other hand, a teacher with a master's degree and a $60,000 debt has crippled herself for the next thirty years. I'm a teacher, I got my master's with $32,000 in student loans, and I can tell you that the debt was just too much.

I did a quick google and I saw that a salary range for a marine biologist is roughly $40,000 to $70,000. This is a very modest professional salary. With such a salary, I wouldn't advise more than $20,000 or so of student debt, and even that might be rather high.

While a $200 or $300 monthly payment might not seem so bad now (and is probably tolerable for ten years) it can really, really hurt you down the road, especially if you have to pay it over 20 or 30 years. It can prevent you from getting a decent car or from buying your own home. It is like a yoke around your neck.

See what you get in terms of a financial package from A&M and take it from there. Work/study jobs can be a great option. My advice is to keep your education as inexpensive as possible. I think you should strongly consider living at home for two years and going to your local community college. Look into high-school AP courses as well.

Good luck to you!

I know you said A&M is your dream school, so I don't know if my experience will be at all worth writing about. :) Ironically, A&M was my first choice, but I was from out of state and the cost was prohibitive. I instead went to a state school on scholarship (which I know isn't an option for everyone, but bear with me) and even had I lost the scholarship I would have had a tiny fraction of the expense that A&M would have been.

And I don't regret that decision for a second.

To each her own, and I am not saying that it's bad to have loans. But as someone who got a fantastic education and a wonderful experience in every way in college, and as someone who got a good job immediately upon graduation with $0 student loan debt, I can tell you firsthand that there are options to going to the big name school. I cried my eyes out when I was 17 and had to make the decision to go to a school that I only applied to as a last resort. But 5 years later with degree in hand I was as happy as I could be, and again, I don't have a single regret. Not having that loan payment helped me out a lot once when money was really tight - it would have meant the difference between paying the rent or not.

What Pbear said! -- words of wisdom.

Justme, you have gotten some really good advice. Be cautious about taking on debt. I was lucky- i did not have debt as an undergrad, but I had to borrow to get my teaching credential. For what it is worth, I ended up leaving my sorority. I, too, worked while I was an undergrad, and it got really tiresome having to pay all of the expenses associated with being in a sorority. If it is worth it for you, then go for it... but think before you rush!

P.S- This is for all undergrads (or grad students)- there are programs out there that will forgive some, or all of your loans, if you are in certain fields. (my loans were forgiven because I taught in a Title 1 school) Also, apply for any and every scholarship that you are even vaguely qualified for. I did not do this an undergrad, but as a grad student, I got a "Leadership Award" scholarship based on my sales awards in my prior job. College is so expensive...leave no stone unturned in the quest for funding!

I teach in a Title 1 school as well, and I was never able to qualify for the loan forgiveness program. Ditto my friend with the $60,000 debt. :( I think it's a great program when it applies, but it doesn't always do so.

Another point to consider is that college costs can go up dramatically while you are in school. My initial budget for my master's degree was $16,000. Costs ballooned over the 2 1/2 years that I was in school, so that my final bill was $32,000. Ouch!

Graduate students don't get the same sweet deals on loans that undergrads do. Graduate students should absolutely look into getting a T.A., G.A., or similar position because that can dramatically lower your costs.

Also, beware of thinking that you can automatically qualify for in-state status if you're independent and have been residing in your new locale for a year or more. I read, thought I understood, and followed the rules for in-state status and I still got shot down. Why? "Because student loans don't count as income for determining in-state status." Gosh, it sure felt like income to me at the time.

Oncegreek gave some great advice about scholarships. If you are agressive about applying for them, you can do quite well.

I have been applying to graduate school and noticed that a lot of schools are very strict about giving in state tuition. I have heard a few schools will go out of their to not allow a student to be considered in state for tuition purposes. I guess it is worth while for the school to put in the effort for the extra money, but it seems crazy to me.

I don't think this is crazy. The point of in-state tuition is to give a break to the people who have been paying the taxes that support the institution. If a student hasn't been contributing to the economy of a state I see no reason to reward him or her with in-state tuition. Additionally (and this is a broad generalization from very brief research), approximately half of people settle in the same state in which they were born. Thus, statistically, charging in-state tuition to those who are actually from the state continues to contribute to the economy and culture of a state.

Getting back on subject, if you are just going into your senior year, now is the time to find a job. You still have 6 or 7 weeks of summer left, and during the school year, you can work after school a few days and weekends. A part time job could earn you enough over the next year to pay for sorority dues and extras.

Some job ideas:

- Part time office work. Whether it's a 3-6 gig, or an office needs someone to do the filing, etc., during any hours you are available, these jobs usually pay a few dollars above minimum wage. Ask your parents or friends' parents, at church (put your avilability in the church bulletin) to see if anyone needs ongoing office work. Also try your town hall, who might not have the $$ to pay full timers. I worked in my town rec office a few times a week during HS.
* Doctors offices are great places for this type of work bc the people at the front desk are doing 5 things at once.

- Babysitting - hit or miss, unless you get a part-time nanny-type job, where you are needed on a specific schedule. Again, ask around for people who might need you. If you live in a neighborhood with lots of kids, you could get a lot of work, but would be mostly on weekends.

- Depending on your skills, peer tutoring. Ask your school or town if they have it. The work may not be steady, though.

- If you are interested in retail, get a part time job now, before the Christmas rush. The people they hire for the holidays are usually let go in January.

- Depending on your skills or hobbies, there might be a way to make $ off that. When I was in college, one of my professors was writing his dissertation and needed help organizing, proofing, typing, resource citing, etc. along the way. I was an English major/Journalism concentration, so this was up my alley. I also typed up other students' papers (this was before everyone had computers) and charged $3.00 a page (for typing, proofing for grammatic/spelling errors, and resource citation).

I hope that you find a way to do all that you wish. Good luck in your endeavors!

I really should be working on a paper....
 

www.marieclaire.com- the website that goes with the magazine- has a great article on consolidating student loan debt. (I know this because I am playing around on-line instead of working on my paper.... procrastination for on-line students.... so much more fun than posting in the discussion forum for my history class!)

I hear what you're saying. I'm just cautioning prospective out-of-state students that even if they think they are following the rules for gaining in-state status, it may not happen for a number of reasons. In fact, the safest course of action would be to assume it won't happen.

One nice thing about being a G.A. or a T.A. (for grad students) is that such a job may automatically confer in-state status.

I was in my thirties, had worked and supported myself for many years, and had also worked and paid taxes in my new state for a year and a half before I applied for in-state status (the "rules" for what they were worth, stated that one year would be sufficient.) Still, no deal. In fact, I was charged more than 100% of the cost to the state of my education. (And I've been teaching the most difficult children that this state has to offer for the past dozen years.)

Which is fine. Whatever. But it ended up feeling like a business deal. When a representative from my alma mater calls and asks me for a donation, basically I just laugh at them. And I tell them that I already paid.

This is less for the original poster (but perhaps in the future?):

Have you all contacted your GLOs' foundations about undergrad and grad scholarships?

I was trying to say, with my previous post, was that I have discovered that not all schools give in state tuition. It was my understanding that this was a universal truth in the academic world. I have beeen looking into schools and Ihave found out that a number of schools do not give in state tuition Also, I have years of teaching and decent grades and test scores and did not get any T.A. or Research assistant positions, so they are not easily to come by and even if they are they don't always garantee in state tuition.

Then again, maybe I applied to the wrong schools.

Consider looking into better dreams, is my advice.

as to what i want to do, microbiology is what really interests me. i'm also considering the medical route if my anatomy class goes well next year. i love texas and wouldn't want to go anywhere out of state, even if i could afford it, which i cant. i love the culture at A&M and they have an excellent science department, so it fills all my needs and wants. there is nothing about A&M that makes me wrinkle my nose or have second thoughts every other college i have looked at in state fits my wants like A&M does. I did get a part time job recently. I got a job at the movie theatre in town, it opened in june, and i started when it opened and i love it there. its really fun and i like never having been the new kid who doesnt know what she's doing lol. an added bonus is, the chain that i work at has a theatre in College Station so they said they should be able to transfer me over.

Are you talking about State schools or all? I would also be surprised if State schools didn't offer in-state tuition, but not private schools. Most private schools expect everyone to pony up the dough, regardless of where you come from.

To the OP: if being in a sorority means that much to you, there are ways to make it happen. Not saying it will be easy, just saying it's not impossible.

My roommate balanced school and a night job to cover the huge tuition bills at our private university, AND she covered all her sorority dues. She received some grants and loans, but the rest she had to make up with jobs and working a lot over the summers.

We did not have a house, but she did have to cover dorm costs and then apt rent when she moved out of the dorms 2nd year. I don't know how she did it. But she had a lucrative job managing a restaurant at night and still made it to every class. She was not ONCE late on her sorority dues. Oh, and did I mention she had a double major AND graduated with a 3.7 and scored a major investment banking job on Wall Street after graduation? It can be done. She made it to every one of our formals, was social chair and then Vice Pres. Admin of our house. Best of luck at A&M!!!!

People seriously overestimate what loan forgiveness can do for them. Some of the idiots I went to grad school with INSIST that if you get a job with the federal government, that they will "forgive all your loans." That's not exactly true. After a certain amount of time, an agency, IF THEY HAVE THE FUNDING, can choose to forgive your federal loans, but not your private loans. The only 2 federal agencies that tend to forgive total loan debt are State and Justice, because they have it like that. Most of my classmates want to work for the Parks Service, which doesn't have that kind of money. They will be sadly mistaken.

It seems that there are only a few ways to get your debt forgiven--work at a high risk school, join the Peace Corps, etc. But this isn't true for the vast majority of people.

A lot of the top law schools can forgive your debt if you go into non-profits, but you shouldn't take out loans with the belief that they'll be forgiven.

I guess I was lucky.. but you are right, taking out loans is not to be taken lightly. The loan forgiveness program I was in was through the California Student Aid Commission. This has nothing to do with anything, but the state budget is CA is such a mess, I don't even know if the program is still in existence. I'm hoping the state has enough money to pay me at the end of August! (I'm a teacher) Someone on this thread mentioned Freewebs-I signed up for my son, and am already getting information! (we have a few years yet, he is just starting junior high!)