Cloning....Why clone anyway?
 

I posted this in the Medical Thread I started, but I thought it would be a good topic to chit chat about so I thought I would start a whole thread about it.:)

So what do you think? Is it a good thing or a bad thing? How far can we go with it? Given the problems associated with animal cloning, why would anyone want to do it at all?

Personally, I think it can be a good thing, if people don't over do it. I mean, apart from making human medicines, I think cloning could help boost the numbers of some endangered animal species. I think it would really be amazing to clone extinct animals. Of course doing this would be a much greater challenge than cloning endangered animals, because unfortunately the egg needed to create the cloned embryo has to be from a different species. Kind of like Jurassic Park. They used DNA from frogs to fill in the missing links in order to make dinosaurs.

I think bringing back the extinct animals would be taking things a bit too far, but I do think the good thing about cloning, is we would be able to bring back a lost pet. If it died, we could bring it back and it would more than likely have the same personality as the original. I know this wouldn't be true for all cloned animals though.

I don't know about bring back extinct or endangered species, but I do think that cloning can serve a valuable purpose. I'd like to see cloning done specifically for the cloning of organs to serve those that need transplants. You can either clone their healthy organ or a healthy organ from another person that would be a donor match. I think if we get to the point that we can clone a healthy kidney for an individiual in need, or (and I don't know the feasibility of this) a healthy brainstem or spinal nerves for an individual that had injuried them, than we'd be well served to explore those options.

Kitso
KS 361

Actually, it would be very unlikely that a cloned pet would have the same personality traits as the original. If you do your research, you will find that many traits are developed by one's environment. Look at identical twins - nature's clones. Even though both may have certain proclivities, whether they are raised in the same household or not, they invariably have many differences.

For examples, my sisters, identical twins, took different roles on as children and thus as adults. One was two minutes older, and as a result was always called the "oldest". They competed over everything, yet one or the other would do better in practically everything they did: grades, sports, etc. One loved math, the other loved enlgish. One is a CEO, the other is a Social Worker.

An example about pets: You kitty might be a lap cat, but maybe that's because it was raised with lots of mommy and human contact. Your cloned kitty could likely be raised for the first month or so alone, with no mommy to teach her to do "cat things". She may not like to jump on your lap because perhaps she fell off something and is afraid of heights.

There are easily hundreds of falacies about cloning and genetics. Though most people think that it is a simple process, it's an extremely complicated theory with too many variables to imagine. Even with animals.


ETA: The ability to clone organs would theoretically be quite beneficial for humans, since there are already so many on transplant lists, and the potential and incidence of organ rejection is a huge risk. Having one's own genetic organ available could potentially solve a crisis that loses thousands of people a year to organ failure.

I'm surprised to find how many GC threads there are about human cloning over the years.

Have there been any huge developments or advancements since the debate began years ago? I would only support cloning for finding cures to diseases or someting like that. Cloning pets and humans for random replication is dumb and a waste of humanity and science.

All seemingly good and interesting things can have a turn for the worse if they are misused. Random: I remember The Mist and how those aliens or whatever were able to demolish that town. It wasn't cloning but it was science gone bad. :eek: :)

The plans for cloning organs do not include cloning an entire human to give up those organs. Your thinking of people "cloning" a new child to give bone marrow to their first sick child. That does happen and does open a big can of worms with regard to the new child's right not to be a bone marrow farm for their sibling.

That's scary. :(

Let the record show that NOW I think cheerfulgreek is being picked on just for the helluvit. :p She was on an "it's because it's me" trip and folks are giving her what she paid for.

The lack of humility before nature that's being displayed here, uh... staggers me. God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man. Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs...

http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_...f_goldblum.jpg

I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're talking about here: it doesn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others have done and you want to take next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourself, so you don't take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could and before you even knew what you had you patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now you're selling it, you want to sell it!!!!!!

Thanks for terrifying me, macallan. Thanks.

hahaha

Pure awesome. Well fucking played.

Pets-nature versus nurture
Extinct animals-just look at what happens in the environment when people bring animals/plants to habitats that are not of origin
Cloning people-now I know there is a movie that addresses this issue and the slippery slope that exists (I just am drawing a blank at the moment)

The Island? :D

Yes, thank you!

Yeah.....I peeped that too.

Ah well.

We need to clone Buster Posey.

Shoot, I'll second that, he's a cutie.

And if someone's taking clone requests, I can get started on my list, just let me know...

lol lol omg!!! I loved that part! I liked the part after the T-Rex chase too, when he said "Was that part of the tour?" lol Jurassic Park..The best movie I've ever seen.:D:D:D

I couldn't agree with this post more. The only thing though is wouldn't we have to clone a human being in order to get the body parts 1st? That's the scary part if I'm thinking correctly. AKA_Monet and BigRedBeta where are you when I need you?:(

It could if people started taking it too far. At the moment, human reproductive cloning is banned in most countries that have any policy at all on the matter. I do think it's increasingly considered that any comprehensive ban on cloning restricts freedom, well..reproductive freedom I should say.:) The question I have is, isn't this considered to be kind of like a newly defined right, as far as human rights go?

I also think if it's regulated correctly, it would allow some couples to have children without risking passing on a genetic disorder carried by one parent. With what wreckingcrew said, I agree because it might appeal to some who hoped to have a new child who would be a compatible transplant donor for an older sibling who may need an organ. I know this is nuts, but I think if it's regulated the right way, it would theoretically allow parents to have another child with the same genetic make up as one who may have died prematurely. I mean, I understand that the child could never be a replacement, and the parents might would do better to just have another child the normal way. But at the same time, it doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't take satisfaction from a cloned baby.

Now you're talking about genetic engineering in addition to cloning. See the movie Gattaca to see the dangers of genetic engineering. There are, however, experts who predict we could live to be 1000 if they were cloning our organs. Every 40 or 50 years, you could just replace your parts, like we do on a car and you'd just keep going. Personally? I foresee even more problems with this idea like over population, quality of life/lifestyle, expense, etc. Personally, I think that having to work 50 years of my life is more than enough work for me. If I lived to be 1000, I'd probably have to work for 980 years of my life. No thanks!

In terms of cloning PEOPLE for organs (a la "The Island), I think that is taking things too far. Unless we are talking cloning Ewan McGregor (a la "The Island"); I can make a case for that.;)

But creating new organs for the same person? On the surface, I can see that.

As far as living 1000 years, imagine how densely populated this place would be. I will settle for living a healthy full life, and going in my sleep.

Wow...ya know, I didn't think about the environmental issues with cloning a pet.:o:p You're right. That makes sense. I guess attempts to clone animals could back up the idea that cloning isn't the most healthy way to start off life.:D Actually, this subject came up in one of my classes, with cloned animals, I read that at least the few that make it past the fetal stage, have been affected variously by enlarged organs, and problems with their immune system, joints and liver as well as obesity. I also agree with what you said about the problems in cloning, because some of the conditions are thought to be down to errors in the reprogramming of genes during the cloning procedure. Like you said it isn't that easy. I mean, like plants for example. People have been cloning plants for thousands of years. It's simple. You just take a leaf cutting from a plant and grow it into a new one. That's a form of cloning...I guess.:) Cloning animals is harder because with a few exceptions, most animals reproduce sexually, unlike plants, they need genetic information from both male and female.

I'm not sure if you remember, but a few years ago a lady paid 50 grand to some company in California to clone her pet cat, who died of old age. Well, anyway, after the cat was born, according to the owner, it was said to have exactly the same personality as the orignial.:)

lol lol awww...DSTCHAOS why? C'mon. What about the social benefits of cloning? Like perpetuating the genetic qualities of outstanding people, or like what you said about helping research on human development.:)

lol QUOTE OF THE YEAR!:p

I haven't seen Gattaca before. Is it about extending human life? If it is, I'll rent it tonight. I agree with cloning to replace organs, but at the same time when we start living this long I think it starts getting into the "Playing God role."

No.

This is evolution. Natural selection and all that. If you want "the genetic qualities of outstanding people" to perpetuate, marry an outstanding person and make babies with them. No cloning is needed.

Wow Peppy, you're so smart. I didn't think of that one.:rolleyes:

You deserve a round of applause and a Scooby snack for posting that. Good for you....http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/41.gif

Is this your way of reattaching the bull's eye that had fallen off of your forehead?

Check out this company...
tengion.com

It's about a society where people are being genetically engineered and the genetically engineered people are considered far superior to "naturals". The "naturals" essentially become like untouchables but one is trying to pass as a genetically engineered person because he wants to be an astronaut and only the genetically engineered people get to join the space program. It's fascinating and scary...

I'm so lost in this discussion :confused: Cheerful do you need to write a paper or something in Ethics?

Human genes are being cloned everyday AND on a computer chip... Now, that technology, wow. If I had money back in 1994 when Affymetrix started!!!

We can grow organoids in petri plates. We do it with stem cells all the time. Well, depending on how your look at it, the US cannot use Human Embryonic Stems so we scientists are WAAAY behind on that research curve. While Singapore and North Korean gives us bogus data on that subject...

The issue with providing correctional "parts" to damaged tissues is the honing to the area. It's easiest with skin. It's harder with nerves. And add a chronic illness into the mix, like cancer or heart failure, good luck...

And NONE of these studies are being done in the US anymore! So, don't get cancer unless your Senator Kennedy, or lose a limb, or have heart failure because, welp, you are NOT going to be saved with our current healthcare system.

I'd say the US is now 5 years behind other 1st world countries research...

lol lol lol....I don't think it ever fell off. Frankly, I really don't care anymore, she gave me a snarky remark, so I gave one right back to her.:)

Thanks!:) I'm renting this today. After I watch it, I'll let you know.

I think what's interesting is the recent ability to "reprogram" skin cells into a state that is similar to stem cells. That's going to be the future of the cloning debate and it will be interesting to see what theraputic advantages this technique can yield.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=16470482

http://www.wired.com/medtech/stemcel...7/11/skin_cell

Kitso
KS 361