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I wonder what would happen if...
This past weekend I went out of town to visit a few museums and a couple of different zoos. While I was there, I got a chance to hold a chimp. I've never held one before. I thought it was pretty amazing seeing how intelligent they actually are. Of course everyone knows the old theory about humans evolving from apes and stuff. Well, I was reading the information they had about the chimps and other primates there, and some of the information I read said that humans are very similar to chimpanzees because they have 98% of our DNA. At one time I thought they had the same number of chromosomes we had, but they don't. They actually have 48 while we have 46.
The lady that was giving the presentation about the chimpanzees got a little irritated with me, because I kept asking her questions she couldn't answer. o.k. so I was a bit of a skeptic at first, my reasons for all the questions to her.:p One of the questions I asked her was "If the DNA sequence in humans is so close to that of chimpanzees, why do the two species look so different?" She kind of changed the subject.:rolleyes: Then I asked her again, and she said it could be a lot of things. I said "Like what?" Then she asked me what do I think it could be. I told her I didn't know, but the only thing I could think of was that the small changes in regions of the DNA that have a regulatory function probably can have major effects on the appearance, I guess. I told her that maybe chimps and humans have different developmental trajectories, who knows? lol :p When I left the zoo, on the ride back home, I started thinking about some of the things she said. Well, if chimps and humans are so close in DNA and chromosome number, what if we were to use the science of In vitro fertilization. Would something come from it? I looked it up, but I didn't see anything. The way I look at it is, every species has a typical number of chromosomes revealed by it's karyotype. Like in a dog. Dogs have a total of 78 chromosome as an example. Another example, would be in some deer, I do know of two species of Asian deer. They look similar in appearance but have very different chromosome numbers. Horses have 64 chromosomes, while donkies have 62. Not the same number, but yet they can produce a mule. Of course mules are usually sterile, because genetically mules have 32 horse chromosomes and 31 donkey chromosomes, giving them a total of 63 altogether...I think.:o:) So through In vitro fertilization I wonder what would happen, since we're supposedly so closely related to chimps. That was one of the questions I asked the tour guide lady. I think she thought I was nuts, which is why I was a little skeptical about posting this.:) What the heck, I thought it would be something to chit chat about. |
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2. sweetie you are thinking too hard...!! 2a. AKA Monet...where are you? |
Just do it with a chimp already perv.
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Have you watched Escape to Chimp Eden on Animal Planet? It's really an incredible show, and I'll admit that when I watch it, I can't help but remark on how similar to humans they are. Even when they walk upright they resemble people.
Keep in mind that though we have similar numbers of chromosomes, those chromosomes aren't necessarily the same. |
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It's the in vitro fertilization I'm wondering about, but having the chimp carry "IT" after the egg has been fertilized. |
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Based on your siggy, you probably already did...jerk. |
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True, but neither are horses and donkies. |
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How do you know? |
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Darwin lied. |
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I wasn't talking about Darwin, but since we're on the subject, how do you know Darwin's theory was a lie? Darwin's theory may not have been a lie. Of course evolution is a theory, but not in the way naysayers mean. Usually they mean it's an idea, or a guess. What Darwin said about evolution is not only a theory, it also can be a fact. Do I agree with his theory? Somewhat, but not really. I do believe the key in understanding evolution is to recognize how it could be both. I say this because if it's looked at as a fact, then evolution is simply genetic changes occuring through time in a group of individuals. Basically a population, a species, and so on. These changes occur because we can see the changes, measure them and in many instances figure out when they happened. As a theory, it seeks to explain what's responsible for the evolutionary process, in other words, what causes these changes. |
So what came first?
The chicken or the egg? |
there were eggs before there were chickens
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Do you belong to the Flat Earth Society too? |
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As incredibly stupid as it seems, yes there is a Flat Earth Society. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/
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wow i heard about it but thought it was a joke now i hope everyone realises the dangers of lead-based paints |
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Geez, can you imagine the trolls THAT board gets??!? :p |
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I'm not a member of the flat earth society. |
I admittedly didn't read the OP. So I'll just say what first came to mind:
We've all seen people who look like an animal. In a nonracialized way. Evolution skipped over some families. I saw a dude who looked like a FROG. Like he had a FROG CURSE and it was sad. But we aren't closely related to frogs so that's waaaaaay off topic. |
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What a bunch of idiots. I wonder if I join would I get banned from there? I think I'll join.:D ETA: They probably also think the earth is a 50,000 years old too. lol |
I don't know anything about what you said.....but it sounds like you were a major pain in the ass on your zoo tour.
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Yes, Mrs. I Have a Bitchy Attitude, it is obvious. I have never studied genetics or anything associated with it. Thanks for reaffirming my thoughts.
I was joking. Obviously you can't take one. You were asking a zoo tour guide about gene sequencing in chimpanzees........lighten up. It's funny. |
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That's probably one of the few messageboards where the trolls are the sane ones. :p Anyway, back to the original topic....You got me curious so I googled "cross-species in vitro fertilization" and "cross-species embryo transfer" and I was surprised to find that this is actually being done on animals. A woman named Betsy Dresser has pioneered the practice in an effort to save some endangered species from extinction. I doubt that it would ever be tried with human embryos. First, you'd have to find an animal that would accept the embryo, then one that could actually birth a human baby (I certainly have no idea about ape reproductive organs) and then there would inevitably be some legislation that would be put in place against it since some related practices have been made illegal. I was surprised, however, to find that there are some sketchy things going on nonetheless. For example, a human nucleus has been put into a cow cell and there actually was cell division (er something like that). The "thing" was destroyed shortly after observing that it was possible. (google "human-cow hybrid" for more) Creepy, to say the least. Haven't these scientists seen The Fly? IMHO, it's yet another situation where just because you can doesn't mean you should. |
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lol I'm actually thinking about signing up to be a member of that message board, just to get under their skin. I'll probably get banned within the 1st 5 or 6 posts lol lol lol.:p:D I figured some kind of experiments were being done. That's why I kept asking the tour guide lady a bunch of questions she couldn't answer. I wasn't trying to make her look like a moron or anything, I was just trying to see why she thought humans and chimps were related. I was just curious.:o:) The information you provided is SO good. I actually think scientist have done some crazy things, and even if they did do in vitro reproduction, with a chimp and a human they wouldn't let it leak out. People would freak. lol at the human cow "thing". I'm not surprised. Of course the cows body would have probably rejected it. Who knows? I'll google it though. Yep, the last part of your post is SO true. That makes so much sense. |
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Are you kidding? She's a tour guide. She's not a DNA scientist or something. |
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Forgive me for not embracing emoticons. They are a tool of the Earp. |
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Sequence is only one part of the equation. The ways in which an individual gene is turned on - in terms of frequency, timing, and so forth - accounts for a great deal of the variety. Further, because genes have effects on other genes down the line, turning them on and off in particular sequences (accomplished through a variety of promoter and inhibitor sequences in front and behind a particular gene), matters as well. Think of it this way. Say you have a number of red, blue and green legos. For one building, you start out with 50 red pieces, 20 blue pieces, and 30 green pieces. No matter what you build, from a color stand point, it's going to look MUCH different than the thing you build with 10 red pieces, 75 blue pieces and 15 green pieces. DNA in the fact that it essentially codes for those building blocks (proteins) is very similar. Quote:
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"Mrs. Moron." BTW: When I go to a zoo, I'll ask as many questions as I want, rather the tour guide gets upset or not. |
Hahahahahahahaha, oh wow....now you're doing the "I'm very calm.......you're the upset one" technique . Yes, you're right. Clearly by my posts I am just seething mad. Yes, Devil Woman, it was a joke.
Did you just scold me about posting in threads? Please take a second and remove yourself from the golden pedestal you have perched yourself on . Maybe you're right though......I'm sure there's just a plethora of people on this greek life interweb message board that could write books on primate genetics. ......yes, you're exactly right.....and can read to boot. I most certainly did call you "Ms. I have a bitchy attitude". Between your responses here and your bashing and making fun of unfortunate Subway Sandwich Artists, I felt the moniker was warranted. You need to lighten up. |
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(Hmm, as I'm writing this it's occuring to me why it would be difficult to predict.) I'm guessing that certain monosomies and trisomies would result in things we've never seen before? What about with just in vitro fertilization of a human embryo into another primate? Sorry for the silly questions. I'm just very curious. |
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I had questions, because I felt that some of the information she provided was inaccurate. She was making it seem like though chimps are a different species from us, that we're considered to be cousins. She said that our DNA are very close as if we came from them.:rolleyes: I felt that she wasn't understanding what biological species concept really is. I had questions, because biological species concept bases it's classification on reproductive compatibility. Organisms that can successfully reproduce together are considered to be of the same species, and those that can't reproduce together are a different species. There's only one living human species. Us. Of course the bio species concept definition leaves a lot to be desired because many closely related organisms can interbreed yet are clearly different enough to be separate species, which is why I sarcastically brought up the in vitro fertilization to her. Another method of classification, one that I actually think works a little better, is knowing that species are groups of organisms that maintain unique identities, genetically, physically, and geographically over time and space. Like I said earlier, in dogs and wolves. They're both in genus "Canis". Before I get ahead of myself, just so you know, sharing a genus name tells you that organisms are quite similar and very closely related. We don't share the same genus name as chimps. Just because we share similar DNA doesn't mean we came from them. I felt she was way off. We're homo sapiens, chimps are pan troglodytes (not sure if I spelled that right) but it's something like that. Anyway, as I was saying with the wolves and dogs, they're species names are different. Dogs are always Canis familiaris, but there are many different species of wolves, all beginning with Canis but ending with a variety of species names to accurately describe how different they are from each other. Genetically dogs and wolves are very distinct, but they aren't so different that they can't reproduce. That's why I jokingly asked the in vitro fertilization question to her. Later, I started to wonder what if? I was really nice about it though. I mean, it's not like I was being mean to her or anything. |
Usually when something is produced with less chromosomes than its parents it has significant defects- I would think that Mules are a rare exception to this. The hybrid would have to have alterations on all 23 chromosome pairs- an alteration on one usually results in a severe disorder. I would guess that the offspring would be unable to develop or survive.
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