Black Greek 101 stating that AΦA didn't come first
 

Can Alpha men who have read Black Greek 101 clarify the material in this book, which was in fact written by one of your own? In it Walter Kimbrough states that both "Alpha Kappa Nu" at Indiana university and more importantly "Gamma Phi" at Wilberforce University were two African American collegiate fraternities that were founded in 1903 and 1905 respectively. Alpha Kappa Nu he writess didn't last beyond a couple of years, but that are records of Gamma Phi dated up until the 1940's.

Im curious to hear an Alphas thoughts on the subject.

Why would you need us to "clarify" things?

Gamma Phi and Alpha Kappa Nu FAILED as intercollegiate fraternities.

Alpha Phi Alpha is the first successful intercollegiate fraternity founded for and by African Americans.

Black Greek 101 is clear about this. Stop trying to start drama with your first post.

My question wasn't intended to start drama, seeing as there was no inflammatory language in my post. So the discussion need not be derailed by petty insults or what-have-you. We're adults here. But if I had the book nearby I would quote the excerpt Im thinking of.

By "clarify", I mean that by simple logic, whether the venture failed or not, both still came before 1906. One could easily deduce that before Gamma Phi went under, Alpha couldn't lay claim to firsthood.

So what I want to know is what are the aspects of "First of all" aside from success that AphiA lays claim to? Were either of the other two organizations founded by white people? Were they both confined to 1 university? Is it because you're the oldest recognized by the NPHC? I want the logic behind the slogans.

Ask the author.

ETA: Who are you? Do you aspire to be an Alpha?

Black Greek 101 provides so much detail regarding this that there should be no need for clarity. Paricularly pay attention to page 30 as it explains the difference between the success of Gamma Phi and that of Alpha Kappa Nu, which are both extinct.

Then the next section of that chapter is entitled "the founding of the major Black Greek Lettered Organizations 1905-1930" for a reason. It begins by discussing the difference in membership-type between the college-graduate Sigma Pi Phi Fraternity and the later founded collegiate and intercollegiate Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity (and the BGLOs founded thereafter).

No Comment . . .

I think this needed to be put in bold too. :)

I think it would be proper to say that A Phi A was the first national BGLO founded. There were other locals that came and went, whose lifespan was a couple of years.

You are reading way too much into this. And First of All can simply mean the First of All that currently exists.

Are you thinking about reactivating Gamma Phi or Alpha Kappa Nu?

Ok, I have the book back in my hands. So Im going to quote exactly what this Alpha has written. Chapter 6, page 147, first paragraph:

"Since the history of Black Greek-lettered fraternal organizations has been incomplete in the past, one objective was to provide a more complete history, one that includes the introduction of a previously unknown Black fraternal organization, Gamma Phi Fraternity, which should rightfully be considered the first collegiate, Black fraternal organization."

Okay...and if the posts in this thread don't clarify things for you then you probably wear a helmet.

Yayyyyyyy!

http://www.comedycentral.com/images/...ecialed_m4.jpg

So let me get this straight A phi A's "first of all" entails just the first of all that currently exists. Not the first EVER? Correct?

You really and truly will not know what "First of all" means unless you are a member. Therefore, it is a little rude for you to ask. :)

That's me not being snarky about it.

Fair enough. I realize any questioning of an organizations history is touchy, and I don't mean any overt disrespect. But that doesn't negate the existence of the facts. The whole selling point is argueable at best, untrue at worst. My question has been pretty much answered. If anyone else feels like weighing in though, feel free.

Who are you and why do you care about this issue?

*Heaven says Hallelujah*

Sweetheart,

It's the incorporation that has made the difference--that's the way I see it. Should it matter who's on 1st? I think it is more important that who was everlasting for over 100 years of service to be "first of all"...

I think many gentlefolks of GC have fully answered your question without personal attacks. Moreover, there is a search function and it can be your friend. If you really want to have a discussion like this, please take it to PM? In fact I would be happy to give you a personal telephone number of a certain member who would love to answer all your questions about Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. and then some... :)

I hope this thread gets locked soon.

LMBAO....................

BAN THE SPAMMER.

^^ For real.

Senusret,

He has 5 posts and they're all on this forum in this thread. He's a nobody with an axe to grind.

Hello elusiveflip.

Many times, people who were rejected for membership come on GC to try to dog greek orgs--specifically the one that rejected them; and when their intent is discovered, they get dogged by the members. It happens so often that sometimes people with good intent get caught up in the flames. For this reality, I apologize to you if yours is a noble intent.

I think your question was answered by the members, howbeit not in the tone you expected. I also forward the idea that if you and I lived on A street and started a gang that nobody wanted to join and it lasted only three months--which was before we could even get our rep off, and another gang started up on the same street and they took care of bitniss and are still doin' it, can we honestly say we were the first on that street? You're only as good as your last performance.

^ Thanks for the tactful response. Im not, nor will I ever be any Greek organizations reject. No axes to grind, nothing. Just a dude who read a book and had a follow-up question.

As for the gang comparison, it's the same as having an older brother that lived into his adolescent years and died when you were young. His death doesn't mean he never existed. You may be the oldest sibling NOW and the first to lead a full life, but you're not the first child period. To say you are is to deny that first sibling it's very existence.

oooooooooooooooooooo...

[quote=elusiveflip;1664402]^ Thanks for the tactful response. Im not, nor will I ever be any Greek organizations reject. No axes to grind, nothing. Just a dude who read a book and had a follow-up question.

Why is it that the people who never aspire to be apart of any BGLO or who have never been rejected… do so much research on our organizations :confused:?

[quote=G-Kue 1911;1664444]No my Greek Brother..... he didn't say he's not aspiring, he said he'll never be a reject.

Ahhhhh....ok.....good catch....these GDI's are getting clever or it could be these coronas are getting me off my game :D.


[quote=Senusret I;1664450]

LOL....maybe both. Happy Friday to you too. :p

[quote=G-Kue 1911;1664444]
If I may-

Here at ASU we have a Greek 101 class, facilitated by members of each of the 5 councils (and for those of you that aren't caught up with the 5, its NPHC, IFC, Pan-hel, NALFO, and MGC) with the mission to educate people on the different cultures that encompass the Greek system.

I was lucky enough to facilitate that class, and learn a lot about what other councils do. Their public traditions, what it means to step and stroll, and also learned about alot of the public history (particularly about APhiA, AKA, ODPhi, and KDChi (the latter 2 are NALFO orgs))

I found it incredibly interesting to learn about what people thought, how chapters were started, where, by whom, and what the reasoning was behind it. Being a member of a Greek org myself, I know why we were founded, I know by whom, what we stand for, as well as almost everything that there is to be known... But it's always intrigued me to learn about others.

So questions that are being asked, if all intent is pure, are nothing more than the seeking of knowledge to make people become less ignorant.

Shrug, just my two cents.

-JJ


editors note: I mean no disrespect in my response, so please don't take it that way.

JJD - I question the purity of intent of the initial poster, that's all. :)

A PHI A as 1st black intercollegiate greek lettered fraternity
 

These are the facts. On December 4th, 1906 Alpha Phi Alpha was founded as the first intercollegiate greek lettered fraternity created for and by black men. We have never maintained that some local greek lettered club or society did not exist somewhere prior to this date, even though scant documentation exists to support this assertion. Let me use Dr. Kimborough's "Black Greek 101" to provide insight to our claims.

Page 30 "Black Greek 101" Charles F. Potter, chapter historian for Gamma Phi states in the 1923 issue of The Forcean(The Wilberforce University yearbook) "Until a few years ago the activities of the organization(Gamma Phi) were merely local; but there are now other chapters doing splendid work ,but the Alpha chapter at Wilberforce is the leader." Gamma Phi started in May of 1905 with only one chapter at Wilberforce University and apparently did not move beyond local status until the 1920's based on the quote of Mr. Potter. Dr. Kimborough's research indicates that from the early 1920's until 1930 no more than four(4) Gamma Phi chapters can be said to exist --- and that around 1947 the entire organization ceased to exist. What is clear and not disputed is that Gamma Phi by the direct quoted accounts of it's own historian did not predate Alpha Phi Alpha as the first intercollegiate fraternity founded for and by black men. Gamma Phi, like countless other early BGLO's started as nothing more than a local grouping, and in fact, continued as such for almost another 20 years before establishing a few other chapters --- and then disappearing altogether leaving little or no documentation of what it truly was. All greek lettered groups are not fraternities( was Gamma Phi a literary club, a glee club, men's social club? We don't know.) Clearly, all fraternities are not(or were not founded as) intercollegiate or national in scope or intent.

Alpha Kappa Nu (1903) club formed at Indiana University provides no documented evidence that it was a fraternity --- as opposed to a study group, debate society, literary club, social club, etc. --- some documents suggest Alpha Kappa Nu was actually a club of Bloomington, Ind. citizens who held meetings on the University campus during it's brief 14 months of existence. But, it is not a matter of debate that Alpha Kappa Nu(whatever it may have been) was never an intercollegiate fraternity. It was a short lived local greek lettered club. (Page 23 Black Greek 101)

Sigma Pi Phi (1904) Has never claimed to be a collegiate or intercollegiate fraternity in any sense( it was not founded on any university or college campus, has no chapter or boules on such campuses, and has never initiated members through any collegiate structure.) Sigma Pi Phi wisely and rightly acknowledges Alpha Phi Alpha's well documented claim to be the first national intercollegiate greek letter fraternity founded for and by black men.

I chose to use the source that elusiveflip cited to bring some depth to this thread, as a proud brother of Alpha Phi Alpha since June 20th, 1970 (Theta) I am hoping to put an end to the debate as to who was "first of all". To date no one can provide documented evidence that any intercollegiate fraternity founded for and by black men predated the vision of our Jewel Founders.

Well Stated
 

I always appreciate a well-documented assertion.

There Goes An Alpha Man...couldn't have said it better myself

simply we call ourselves the first INTERCOLLEGIATE FRATERNITY FOR BLACK MALES, meaning a fraternity, incorporated in April of 1907, which was constantly, for years multiple times a year, chartering other chapters on some of the greatest institutions of higher learning in the country and outside the country. Cornell, Howard, Univ of Chicago, Boston University, Columbia, Princeton, Yale, etc. To compare these two is an insult.

????

Thank you Brother!!!!

I believe this is a reference to the letter of incorporation filed with the New York Secretary of State, dated April 11th, 1907, by Jewel Robert Harold Ogle. However, incorporation is not really at the core of this thread. Once the decision was taken that the fraternity would "grant charters to bodies that meet with their (Alpha Chapter's) distinct approval." and was actuated by Jewels Eugene Kinkle Jones and Nathaniel Allison Murray by "making" Beta Chapter at Howard University on December 20th, 1907 Alpha Phi Alpha became by original vision, and in fact, intercollegiate.

stokley06 i think you shut it down with that.

Peace,


Indeed the thread has officially been CLOSED with that response. Lol. Although if the OP had comprehended anything he read it wouldn't have gone this far. He wants to know why the founders of APhiA claimed to be "First of All"? Well, as far as the founders knew back then...THEY WERE. Duh! But thank you Stokley for helping the OP out with the "semantics" he was apparently so caught up in.

Actually, it's not officially closed unless and until a mod locks it.

But congrats on officially resurrecting it.