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-   -   U.S. soldier uses Quran for target practice; military apologizes (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=96501)

DaemonSeid 05-20-2008 11:19 PM

U.S. soldier uses Quran for target practice; military apologizes
 
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/...ran/index.html


Story Highlights

U.S. soldier aims at Quran at police shooting range at Iraqi village

Soldier relieved of duty, sent to United States for reassignment

Officer apologizes in special ceremony at village

Residents protest with banners and by chanting slogans

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A soldier used the Quran -- Islam's holy book -- for target practice, forcing the chief U.S. commander in Baghdad to issue a formal apology on Saturday.


Maj. Gen. Jeffery Hammond apologizes after a soldier admitted using the Quran for target practice.


Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Hammond, commander of U.S. forces in Baghdad, flanked by leaders from Radhwaniya in the western outskirts of Baghdad, apologized for the staff sergeant who was a sniper section leader assigned to the headquarters of the 64th Armored Regiment. He also read a letter of apology by the shooter.

It was the first time the incident -- which tested the relationship between U.S.-backed Sunni militiamen and the military -- was made public since it was discovered May 11.

"I come before you here seeking your forgiveness," Hammond said to tribal leaders and others at the apology ceremony. "In the most humble manner I look in your eyes today and I say please forgive me and my soldiers." Watch villagers protest the Quran incident »

Another military official kissed a Quran and presented it as "a humble gift" to the tribal leaders.

The soldier, whose name was not released, shot at a Quran on May 9, villagers said. The Quran used in the incident was discovered two days later, according to the military.

Hammond also read from the shooter's letter: "I sincerely hope that my actions have not diminished the partnership that our two nations have developed together. ... My actions were shortsighted, very reckless and irresponsible, but in my heart [the actions] were not malicious." Watch Hammond issue apology »


A tribal leader said "the criminal act by U.S. forces" took place at a shooting range at the Radhwaniya police station. After the shooters left, an Iraqi policeman found a target marked in the middle of the bullet-riddled Quran.

Copies of the pictures of the Quran obtained by CNN show multiple bullet holes and an expletive scrawled on one of its pages.

A military investigation found the shooter guilty and relieved him of duty; he will be redeployed to the United States for reassignment away from the 1st Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division, a U.S. official said.

"The actions of one soldier were nothing more than criminal behavior," Hammond said. "I've come to this land to protect you, to support you -- not to harm you -- and the behavior of this soldier was nothing short of wrong and unacceptable."

Officials said the soldier claimed he wasn't aware the book was the Quran. U.S. officials rejected the claim.

Tribal leaders, dignitaries and local security officials attended the ceremony, while residents carried banners and chanted slogans, including "Yes, yes to the Quran" and "America out, out."

Sheikh Hamadi al-Qirtani, in a speech on behalf of all tribal sheiks of Radhwaniya, called the incident "aggression against the entire Islamic world."



The Association of Muslim Scholars in Iraq also condemned the shooter's actions and the U.S. military's belated acknowledgment of the incident.

"As the Association of Muslim Scholars condemns this heinous crime against God's holy book, the Constitution of this nation, a source of pride and dignity," the groups statement said, "they condemned the silence by all those who are part of the occupation's agenda and holds the occupation and the current government fully responsible for this violation and reminds everyone that God preserves his book and he [God] is a great avenger."

preciousjeni 05-20-2008 11:27 PM

How sad. THIS is taking things too far (to all those wondering what my limit is :rolleyes:).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1655261)
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/...ran/index.html
The Association of Muslim Scholars in Iraq also condemned the shooter's actions and the U.S. military's belated acknowledgment of the incident.

We're kinda famous for this arrogance.

Coramoor 05-21-2008 06:07 AM

I'm sick of the double standard.

If some muslim blows up himself, US Soldiers, and fifty civilians...well, he isn't party of the real islamic religion.

If a female US Soldier is in the same room as one of the muslim clerics during negotiations, it's a huge insult to their honor and a reason to walk away from the table.

shinerbock 05-21-2008 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coramoor (Post 1655352)
I'm sick of the double standard.

If some muslim blows up himself, US Soldiers, and fifty civilians...well, he isn't party of the real islamic religion.

If a female US Soldier is in the same room as one of the muslim clerics during negotiations, it's a huge insult to their honor and a reason to walk away from the table.

Good points.

I think the apology was certainly proper, the kissing the Quran...not so excited about that.

DaemonSeid 05-21-2008 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1655405)
Good points.

I think the apology was certainly proper, the kissing the Quran...not so excited about that.

Ahhhhhh...but don't forget...we (the US) get mad at flag burnings and the flag isn't even a religious object...do we not?

moe.ron 05-21-2008 10:09 AM

Guess that is one way to win the heart and mind of the local population.

shinerbock 05-21-2008 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1655406)
Ahhhhhh...but don't forget...we (the US) get mad at flag burnings and the flag isn't even a religious object...do we not?

I think they should be rightfully mad about someone desecrating the Quran. If visitors to the US burned our flag or desecrated the Bible (note, we have Berkley for things like this, who needs outsiders), I'd be pissed too.

My problem only arises when the outrage isn't evenly distributed or when it escalates to violence. This situation isn't as bad as the cartoon fiasco, for example (at least that I've heard of).

But I do think it would be ridiculous for people to get outraged about shooting at a Quran, yet remain complacent about fellow Muslims shooting at Christians or Jews. I don't think we can label broadly, but I do think a double standard exists.

DeltAlum 05-21-2008 08:25 PM

We, at least the vast majority of us, would be absolutely outraged if anyone used the Bible for target practice.

Our soldier did a remarkably dumb thing.

shinerbock 05-22-2008 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum (Post 1655828)
We, at least the vast majority of us, would be absolutely outraged if anyone used the Bible for target practice.

Our soldier did a remarkably dumb thing.

I think the difference is in the response. Obviously Americans are groveling with regard to this incident. You rarely see the same thing from our opponents.

DeltAlum 05-22-2008 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1656153)
I think the difference is in the response. Obviously Americans are groveling with regard to this incident. You rarely see the same thing from our opponents.

Sorry, but I don't care who grovels for what, the lack of respect for a religious symbol like this isn't something that a soldier of a country founded on religious freedom and values should even consider, let alone do.

Someone is bound to say that "they" (you can fill in the blank on who "they" are) do the same kind of thing to our symbols.

While that is true, it doesn't make it right from either side.

MysticCat 05-23-2008 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1656153)
I think the difference is in the response. Obviously Americans are groveling with regard to this incident. You rarely see the same thing from our opponents.

True, but that's what to me points up the supreme stupidity of the whole thing. Religious and cultural respect aside, any idiot should have been able to guess what the response would be to using a Quran for target practice. What a stupid, stupid, completely counter our own interests thing to do.

shinerbock 05-23-2008 10:44 AM

I'm not saying both situations wouldn't be equally stupid.

I'm saying that people are more likely to ignore Muslim demands for apologies when many are apathetic or even supportive with regard to the terror they inflict on others. I think we were right to apologize.

MysticCat 05-23-2008 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1656670)
I'm not saying both situations wouldn't be equally stupid.

I'm saying that people are more likely to ignore Muslim demands for apologies when many are apathetic or even supportive with regard to the terror they inflict on others. I think we were right to apologize.

I see what you're saying.

Rudey 05-29-2008 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum (Post 1656501)
Sorry, but I don't care who grovels for what, the lack of respect for a religious symbol like this isn't something that a soldier of a country founded on religious freedom and values should even consider, let alone do.

Someone is bound to say that "they" (you can fill in the blank on who "they" are) do the same kind of thing to our symbols.

While that is true, it doesn't make it right from either side.

So religious freedom means not shooting korans? Who knew?

DGTess 06-01-2008 12:19 PM

The point is not that someone could shoot our symbols and we don't get upset.

The point is our soldiers already know what will happen if they do something like this, and he did it anyway. The man is too flippin stupid to be in my military, and should be discharged immediately. Too bad they don't have a "general, under stupid conditions" discharge.

PhiGam 06-01-2008 12:40 PM

Did anyone forget that we are in a WAR with islamofascism? Someone who has had thousands of islamic extremists trying to kill him has the right to shoot whatever book he wants.
Having a military official kiss a quran and give it to the villagers is absurd, unless that soldier was a muslim.

PhiGam 06-01-2008 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock (Post 1656153)
I think the difference is in the response. Obviously Americans are groveling with regard to this incident. You rarely see the same thing from our opponents.

They don't even get upset when someone kills 2000 innocent civilians in the name of their god.

Leslie Anne 06-01-2008 03:22 PM

We're not at war with Islam. Using a quran as target practice is completely moronic. That soldier did not have "the right" to shoot at it. As a U.S. soldier he is representing our government and our country. What he did only added fuel to the fire of radical Islamic extremist hatred and pushed the Iraqis we are trying to work with further away from co-operation.

shinerbock 06-01-2008 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne (Post 1661278)
We're not at war with Islam. Using a quran as target practice is completely moronic. That soldier did not have "the right" to shoot at it. As a U.S. soldier he is representing our government and our country. What he did only added fuel to the fire of radical Islamic extremist hatred and pushed the Iraqis we are trying to work with further away from co-operation.

I agree with everything here, although I think it is very important to note that the entity we ARE at war with is Islamic.

DeltAlum 06-01-2008 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pewbuck (Post 1661323)
Yes, we are at war with them, it may not seem like it but we are, it was a war on 'terror' and 'oil', we still have yet to fail or succeed in our duties. But I do think the soldier wasn't trying to harm anyones feelings or beliefs, he might have done it out of hatred to the fact he was pushed into the Iraqi war.

So does it follow logically that the British were at war with the Irish over terror and Guinness because of the IRA?

Most Irish people aren't/weren't terrorists.

Most Islamic people aren't either.

Desecrating their holy book because a part of their fellow belivers is narrow minded and, worse than that, dumb.

Oh, and how do you "make war" on oil? I'm a little confused on that. My guess is that you mean because of oil.


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