Tiers...
 

There has been a lot of discussion about tiers. I think that every fraternity/sorority system follows very predictable dynamics, and it becomes even more pronounced as the number of chapters increases.
In any system with, say, ten or more chapters, there are always only three tiers.

Tier I
This top tier comprises 20-25% of the fraternity chapters. In a system with 20 fraternities, five would be "top tier" chapters.
They are characterized by similarity in size, they rush the same men, they date in the same tier of sororities. They compete against each other in sports, on campus and in social prestige; they know all about each other, and they generally don't like each other.
They don't know and don't care much about the fraternities outside their small five-chapter circle. They all consider themselves to be elite, and their reputations and strength make it hard for them to screw up bad enough to drop out of their top tier status. They may cycle around so that one is on top one year and another is on top the next year, etc. but unless there is an upheaval there is little chance that they will fall out of their tier.

Tier III
The bottom tier contains about 10-15% of the fraternities. They are the most obvious bottom-feeders. No disrespect intended, but in the eyes of the system there is no question about who they are and why they are considered the weakest fraternities. They have not the vision, the ambition or the knowledge to rise up out of their hole. They could get better, but they don't know how and they talk themselves into believing that being small and powerless are virtues.

Tier II
This middle tier is the largest, and consists of a large, indistinct soup of fraternity chapters. In a system of 20 chapters, they are the ones ranking from #6 through #17 more or less. Within this large group, no one knows and no one really cares which one rises or falls above the others. Who knows or cares if the #14 fraternity suddenly surges and leaps up to #8?? There's no point in ranking chapters inside the II Tier. They float up and down, never breaking into Tier I, and never falling into the hellhole of Tier III.

Now, it's possible for any chapter to improve their standing and rise all the way to the top. But you have to know what you're doing, and hardly anyone does.

Shake-ups come when Tier I fraternities get kicked off for one misdeed or another and a spot among the elite opens up. The dynamic becomes unstable until someone rises out of Tier II and becomes a new fixture in Tier I.
I'm a Florida State alumnus and there was a huge upheaval here: since 2001, three of the top five fraternities have been kicked off campus. The dynamic became unstable and so the door was open for ambitious Tier II chapters to rise up and take their places. When that happened, the system's tiers solidified again.

The point is that all (or most) Greek systems share a very predictable dynamic. If I know the number of fraternities on a given campus, I can predict how many fraternities will be considered in the elite circle at the top, and how many will be looked down on as the wretches on the bottom.

OK, I'll bite. 31 (not including NPHC or culturally-focused organizations), go!

Your signature suggests you're from Georgia Tech, one of the strongest fraternity systems in the south.
The answer is: six, with a seventh fraternity that thinks it's Tier I but it's not. The system's dynamic will be effected by the return of SAE. Someone will eventually be pushed out of the Top Tier to accomodate them.
In the bottom Tier III probably only three because of the strength of Tech.

How'd I do?

Sorry, but this sentence made me giggle.

No irony here (three of the top five were kicked off) and no hidden message.
All three (SAE, ATO, SigEp) were booted for hazing, and in each case it was a mother who blew the whistle. One huge difference about this generation is that they share everything with their parents, including the details of their hazing. These were magnificent chapters, each in the 120-150 man range. Their loss disrupted the dynamic of the TopTier. Now, the system is stable again after other fraternities grew and took their place.

I couldn't imagine going running to my moms about something like that. Hilarious.

There are not five top tier fraternities at Florida State... Lambda Chi is the only one that would be considered top tier at an SEC school (other than UF).

yeah im not sure aboutnthat one. We dont have 5 top tier fraternities and our greek system is excellemt/

Any large group of people sort themselves into categories, cliques or tiers. High school, college, workplace, etc. It's not necessarily as bad a thing as some would like everyone to believe. It's not always about popularity, often it's about similar interests. Using the HS example, a science club kid simply may not have a whole lot in common with the jocks.

From the popularity/competitve standpoint, I don't necessarily agree with the OP's reasons why some chapters are where they are or that the middle and bottom ones don't know how and/or don't want to improve their standing. I've seen some chapters commit themselves totally to improving their social standing and be successful after years of hard work. Some times there are factors beyond anyone's control that keep the "top" groups on top and the others where they are, unless something major occurs. (Thinking now of a campus such as Bama.)

Disclaimer: I'm about a year out of undergrad, and I think a female could probably answer this better than me... they see a lot more than any guy does, IMO.

You could make an argument for a top tier of 5-6 at Tech, but the composition changes a lot depending on how important Southernness is. You also start running into arguments like: ABC and DEF go after the same guys in the fall, and pretty much split them, therefore they must be on the same tier, right?

My point is, there's a fairly subtle transition from the top down at Tech, so the top tier is hard to demarcate. However, the bottom tier is much better defined, and consists of about 8-10 fraternities.

I know somebody's going to bring this up, so no, none of the fraternities at Tech would be considered "top tier" at an SEC school, but that's not what we're talking about here.

Ummmm, no. Just no. Like stop trying no. The only "strong fraternity systems" in the ACC are UVA, UNC, Clemson and kind of maybe parts of FSU's. The south has the SEC which has the strongest fraternity systems in the country, much less the region.

What awful Greek system have you been looking at recently that makes GT 's seem "strong"?

And that being said, there are almost never as many as 5 top tier houses. Top-tier means elite, and to go with your example of a 20 house system, a quarter of it isn't elite. The bottom tier is also a lot bigger than you think it is. There are some houses that will be bottom-tier almost anywhere and more that are campus specific, but the bottom tier will most of the time be at least twice the size of the top tier. And divide the middle tier into upper-middle and lower-middle at least.

At most schools outside the south, no house on campus would even sniff the top-tier at a southern school. Possibly not the middle tier either.

With respect, of course the fraternities at FSU conform to the III Tier system just as they do everywhere else. There are 20 IFC fraternities here, and there are currently five in the Top Tier as predicted, although - and this is important - the recent losses of ATO and Sig Ep and even Pi Kappa Phi along with the earlier loss of SAE has caused an instability in the natural order. The top of the list is still unsettled, and with a little effort this is an opportunity for the second tier groups to advance.
And regarding Lambda Chi, it's a mistake to assume that a Tier I chapter at one school would be Tier I at another school. Different cultures, different standards. You have to consider each campus separately. The Tier I fraternities at Penn State couldn't compete one-on-one with the Tier I chapters at Texas due to size, but it's wrong to assume that they're all not superior fraternity chapters. I'm not overly impressed with LXA at FSU but what I think doesn't matter becasue there's no doubt that they're Tier I here.

Remember, the tiers are determined by the perception of rivals, sororities and other peers. The Wilson Heller Survey standard was: "prominence, power and prestige". That might be measured differently on different campuses, but it's a universal standard to determine perception.

What's Tier I on one campus doesn't necessarily transfer from one school to another, but the dynamic remains predictable and constant. When you get below, say, 8 fraternities, a different dynamic comes into play but no less predictable. For instance, in a system with only five fraternities, the breakdown is 2-2-1. Two rivals on top, two in the middle and one on the bottom.

All that true.

The only way you can compare chapter to chapter in my opinion, are things that have nothing to do with perception on campus. Doing it in numbers. Size, quality of members, size of the house, etc.

I think we're saying the same thing; could be wrong. Once the numnbers, house, quality, etc are established, then perception follows. Perception lags behind a few years, so some are actulaly better than their public image and vice-versa. However, the fraternities with the most enduring perceived strengths are the one assumed to be on top.

If, on the other hand, you're saying that you can't fairly compare a top chapter on one campus to a top chapter on another, you are absolutely correct.

Who cares? You're all bottom-tier for sure, brah.

Thank you for the compliment!

But I am sure each is unto themselves and just as good as some if not on their campmi then others.

Hi, Mine is better than yours, is called BS! It is each chapter at each individual chapter.

Are all of mine better than yours, get a life!

I think he means if you put the FSU houses in the SEC, only their LXA chapter would be top-tier anywhere.

Not sure if that's how you were interpreting it or not, cause I don't really know what you were saying. Drunk at 2:30 on a Sunday? Awesome.

It'd be interesting to assign risk to each tier.

If you're in tier 1, you will be hazed at least 35% of the time. There is a 50% chance of being booted off campus. Etc. Etc.

Take that percentage and multiply it against how much you think it's worth being in the top tier and you'll get your real worth.

It's not to say being in the top tier isn't great, but I'm amazed that national offices haven't stepped in to control the social aspirations of their members given their costs these days.

Crackerbarrel, with respect, perhaps we need to define why it is that you find "southern" fraternities superior to all other fraternities and fraternity systems.

You asked what makes Georgia Tech's system strong (and your implication that it is not). Georgia Tech's system is very old with very well established chapters; they are well housed, stable, large chapters and fraternity men populate student government and all major leadership positions. Tech has 31 fraternities - all big, solid nationals - and outside of Virginia Tech or possibly U-Florida that's probably the most in the south.

Yes, fraternities at most SEC schools are very well established and strong, but the "southern" fraternity systems are no more or less dominating of their campuses than the fraternity systems at: Missouri, Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska, Indiana, Illinois, Oklahaom, Oklahoma State, Cornell, Penn State, Southern California, Arizona...
In fact, I'd say the fraternity system at U-Arizona is probably stronger all-around than any in the south except Alabama (which has no peer in my opinion), Auburn and possibly Ole Miss. Even then, it's close and arguable.
The Betas at Oklahoma have 150 members plus 50 pledges and live in a house more majestic and awe-inspiring than any - any- in the south. You'd have a hard tme saying they are not "elite".
I love the south and I'm a fan of SEC fraternities, but the SEC fraternity systems are not superior to great fraternity systems in other parts of the country.

As far as your comment that "Top Tier means elite" and that "five out of 20 are not elite"...I respectfully disagree. The top 20% of any large system will tend to be elite. The top men tend to be drawn to the top fraternities. Claiming to be "selective" is something anyone can do. Being selective is only a virtue if you get selected back by the top rushees. On a big campus with a lot of rushees and a large number of fraternities, there are enough "elite" types to populate pledge classes for all the Tier I fraternities.
And, with respect, the truely bottom Tier III is always small, becasue bad fraternities tend to go out of business. The worst ones will fail and drop out of the system.
You may be exactly right about two levels in Tier II, but most people don't make the distinction among those in the middle.

Again, this discussion of your points comes back to how YOU define a superior fraternity system. If it depends to you on how many guys wear pastel shirts, then we'll have to agree to disagree about fraternities and their relative strengths. I respect your enthuiasm for fraternities and I have no doubt you are a stalwart and generous supporter of your chapter.

They're Betas and they go to Oklahoma. I'll say it, nothing remotely elite about that. Also they aren't even a top-tier house at OU.

And I don't care how many people on campus are Greek, if there is nothing elite about those greeks (cough, PSU, 'Zona) then the whole campus being Greek is no different than the whole campus being GDIs. Sorry, but if you don't see anything other than having lots of houses and lots of people in them as being what makes a strong Greek system than we will never agree.

But I'll just go ahead and say that Texas is essentially a southern school, and they have an elite Greek system. Everywhere else you named is awful (although a lot are probably better than GT, since engineering students tend to be sooooo top-tier!!).

Can you post a picture of that house, cause thats hard to believe.

UF doesn't have 6 or 7 top tier houses. It's SAE and KA as tier 1 and EX and ATO as tier 1.1. Then tier two starts. That's pretty clear just from visiting a few times.

I'm saying that all 4 of them are top-tier, but SAE and KA are better than EX and ATO. But anyways, yes there can. Top-tier has to do with a few specific qualities, you don't become a top-tier house just because someone has to be. Tiers are a description, not an actual structure. There are plenty of schools that have no top-tier houses.

I'm sorry, but there is nothing good about that house.

The stone helps matters because it DOES look like a castle.

However I prefer houses to look like they're on the edge of the Golf course at a country club, not castles. Where are the places to practice your golf or sit out front and have a beer?

running in/

That's beautiful. I'm a columns fanatic.

/running out

Sure:
IFC Chapters
http://studentlife.ou.edu/content/view/138/

Try this link for their rush bruchure:
http://oubeta.org/Rush/2007%20Rush%20Book.pdf

Same here.

But not stone colored columns.

I would actually like the house alot more if it had really nice landscaping and some sort of place to drink/eat and they painted it white.

Yeah the stone colored column isn't ideal for me. I like the overall concept, though. It would be stellar if it was painted white!

Are there better photos showing the lawn areas? I really want it to have nice landscaping. Maybe the brick driveway (walkway?) isn't all that there is.

Much like the UF kappa sig house? Except for the fact they lack a front yard.

The Beta house is nice, but by no means "awe-inspiring" and I'm sure someone in the SEC has something for it.

Right, except for without Kappa Sigs living in it.

:D

Phi Gam and SAE are the two top tier houses at OU. Then comes Beta, Lambda Chi, Delt and Sig Ep. All the other houses need not be mentioned.

The Beta house at OU looks like a silly castle and looks ridiculously out of place. The inside isn't as nice as what you think either......I've been in it.

One way to measure "tiers" on a campus is through rush wins - if KA and SAE both gave nine rushees bids, how many went where?

Another way that's not quite as reliable but easier to figure is bidding average - how many men who were given bids to a house accepted them. If a house gives forty bids to get a seven man rush class, (or eighty bids to get a 15 man class) it speaks for itself.

None of this works if you have large amounts of voluntary depledging.

My feelings regarding "strong fraternity systems" is that if you can't tell the greeks from the non-greeks then it's not all that strong. Sort of superficial admittedly, but theres alot to that differential.

I'm only 26 and find that strange too.

who would tell their mom about what they do with their fraternity??

I hope I'm not considered part of that generation.

/hijack

okay, now for the real question:

What if there are only 12 fraternties, not counting groups that aren't part of IFC? I still think that tiers might exist, but judging by my expierence, it changes every year. I don't want to give specific examples, but it almost seems easier to be good now if you are brand new, as opposed to when we came on and, well, no specific examples, let's just say that being frat#9 when only 8 or so were on campus doesn't lead to the warmest of receptions.

Also, is there a relationship between the founding date of the chapter and the social status/tier of said group?

Absolutely there's a relationship.

Oldest are almost always higher. (or at least have a greater chance of being higher.)

And no, having 12 fraternities does not mean the tiers change. Arkansas has that many and it hasn't changed. The middle switches up a bit but only because of a new house.

I think location plays a factor too, then.

As well as average chapter size. If you're at a big school with 12 groups and they have 90+ members a piece, it's going to be a different dynamic than at a school with 12 fraternities and the average size is 25-30.

True.

I think that possibly if it was a smaller campus with that many fraternities at that size the tier system could be very fluid.

Okay...

that makes more sense about what happened then, I guess.

You're right though, in that, no matter how fluid, some chapters will be considered "better" by rushees than others. However, who may be considered top will change rapidly, and even among different groups. Plus, at a small campus, sometimes it comes down to this: you pledge who you meet first, or you don't pledge at all. This is sad but true.

The thing with Tech fraternities, there are so many of them, and few are very big, they just don't tier very well ... I think pretty much everyone knows who is dead last :rolleyes:, but other than that, it's all up for debate.

What size are the large chapters, medium, and small at Tech?