Why do LGLO/MCGLOs follow NPHC practices?
 

There have been several threads that have asked why LGLOs and MCGLOs use certain NPHC practices (ex. "incorporated," pledge lines, crossing jackets, etc). ElephantWalk brought up a good question with a little bit of a different angle.

Why do these GLOs use NPHC practices rather than NIC/NPC ones? Why were NPHC organizations more attractive than the NIC/NPC counterparts?

Good stuff! Here's a link to the post that started it all:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...4&postcount=53

I am totally going to cheat and just repost what I posted to get it started.

There are many LGLOs/AGLOs/MCGLOs/etc. that use a more structured NPC-style formal recruitment as well as those that do things other ways. And, there are some that pledge in classes and some that pledge in lines, with all the differences that those words imply.

Within multicultural sororities, some, like Delta Xi Phi, are much more NPC-style oriented than orgs like Theta Nu Xi. And, others, like Zeta Sigma Chi, do things similarly to LGLOs. But, in all cases, it's not purely one way or another. Each org has its own uniqueness, so it's too simple to say they have NPC characteristics vs. NPHC characteristics.

I would also say that people don't allow for the possibility that newer orgs are creating a different category altogether that borrows from many different traditions. I believe it's in the "Incorporated" thread where an NPHCer stated that newer orgs emphasize innnnnncorporated because the founders thought it was cool when NPHC orgs did it.

However, that's not entirely the case. OF COURSE, newer orgs borrow from older orgs, but it is not simply copycatting. The newer orgs may adopt some traditions, but they make them their own...similar to the way older organizations borrowed traditions from even older organizations and made them their own. And, honestly, some of the traditions that Greeks consider "theirs" today were a) not developed or instituted at the founding and, worse, b) frowned upon by the founders when they were still living. What's more, some of the newer organizations have officially incorporated these traditions into their functioning and they have become nationally sanctioned which is often not the case with the originating orgs.

I can only speak for my own organization (LGLO), but my Founding Mothers received a great deal of advice and support from one of the NPHC sororities when they were establishing our organization. Further, some of my Founding Mothers were rejected by the NPC when they tried to register for recruitment, so I'm figuring this factored into the decision to refrain from using very many traditions that originated with the NPC sororities.

I totally understand this but what gets me is when those who are rejected from NPHC orgs or who simply wish to hate on us end up adopting our traditions when they create their new org. Then they want to preach about how they're so anti-NPHC and they are the alternative and yadda yadda yadda. Huh??? Sorry to crash...just venting.

I've usually only seen this from non-NPHC BGLOs. Have you seen it with LGLOs or MCGLOs?

I've seen it, too. But moreso from those who decided to not pursue membership or were denied membership.

i didnt get the gist from LatinaAlumna's post that her Founding Mothers were of the sort. of course there are those who are in line with what you are saying... but really, dont bite the hand that feeds you. or at the very least the hand that cooked the meal.

on a somewhat related note, i knew black dudes that would pledge some of the LGLO fraternities as "the next best thing" (their words), and similarly of NIC/IFCs that attempted to mimic NPHC traditions (off the top of my head, Phi Iota Alpha, Lambda Upsilon Lambda and TKE/SigEp, respectively). These guys always stuck out, not because they were black and their chapters often didnt look like them, but because they tended to reek of wanna-be-down-itis.

which as you all know, is the true source of wanna-jacket-itis and on a larger scale, founder-itis.

TKE/SigEp mimic NPHC traditions? I'm have friends in both and am confused by this statement.

She may be referring to local chapters of those fraternities.

exactly. and mimic is too strong a word. they werent going out and getting line jackets and what not, but ive seen made-up hand signs/calls, and wanting to participate in step shows. not often, but enough to get a rise out of the (few) NPHC greeks when i was in school.

now if theyd only mimic community services...

Picturing my TKE and Sig Ep friends with hand signs/calls and being in step shows makes me laugh really hard. Makes me think of Malibu's Most Wanted.

There are some TKE chapters that "throw up" equilateral triangles with their hands, since the triangle is the main symbol of our fraternity. Some doing it with their index and middle fingers, some with their thumb and index finger (similar to the Delta's handsign).

I can't say ALL chapters do this, but my chapter does the first variation and I know other chapters, like UCF, have variation of the triangle hand sign.

But there a lot of other IFC/NPC groups that have hand signs. Off the type of my head I can recall seeing Phi Sigma Sigma, AOPi, AXiD, Phi Mu, and other orgs that have some kind of hang sign although none of them are official and widespread throughout ALL chapters.

We (TKE) don't have any kind of "call" though and I don't think any other chapter does.

And can I ask whats wrong with that? If I'm not mistaken, hand signs weren't around at the founding of ANY org, NPHC or other, so what's the big deal? And weren't ALL hand signs "made up" at one point? I can understand getting upset over stepping, but hand signs aren't a big deal unless they imitate one that an NPHC org has.

:rolleyes:

Hmm...

Seriously, though. I don't think there's a problem with organizations using hand signs, etc (most of the members have acknowledged that these are small aspects of the NPHC experience). There are issues when people say "I don't like what the NPHC stands for" or "The NPHC is not for me" then turn around and use these NPHC "traditions" (for lack of a better word).

Apparently the ones at her school did.

We've had threads on this topic already. Beyond duplicate handsigns and calls, it depends on the dynamics on that campus that create the perception that orgs are being copied and even mocked.

What? She's saying that if you're going to mimick something, mimick the community service emphasis that the NPHC chapters on that campus had, too.

True. There are some campuses where if IFC/NPC groups throw up hand signs it isn't seen as a form of mocking or being disrespectful, but apparently at her campus it was.

It just sounded like when non-IFC/NPC Greeks say that all the IFC/NPC groups do is party and they don't do any service for the community, which isn't the case.

On my campus IFC/NPC Greeks do more community service way more than the NPHC and other MCGLOs do.

It's possible that the latter two just aren't doing the service on campus.

Some discussion of that here too.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...t=86289&page=2

Most IFC/NPC chapters either do not do a handsign (even if their organization has had a handsign for decades) or only do the handsign at certain times. So it isn't uncommon for IFCers and NPCers to not be familiar with their org's handsign, so of course nonIFC and nonNPCers will attribute handsigns to the orgs that are the most visible with them.

Outside of GC I have never seen NPCers and IFCers acknowledge that they have a handsign.

:)

To me, it sounded like she's saying she can think of better things to duplicate. Not assuming that all of the IFC/NPC orgs on her campus weren't doing service, but I'd rather people get service motivation and ideas from one another (and even "compete" over who is servicing their community the most----if they want something to create pissing contests over) than unnecessarily adopt stepping and calls if most chapters in their organizations don't have them.

I'm not saying they do none, I'm saying I hear/see more IFC/NPC orgs here doing service than the others.

I got what you were saying. I'm saying that it's possible that the service that the NPHC and LGLO/MCGLOs partook in were done off campus.

In my chapter, for example, we have a few service events that we do on campus (annual/bi-annual events). The bulk of our service, though, is done either off campus on our own, or with other chapters. These events may not be known to all the other Greeks, but trust that they get done.

Which doesn't mean they actually do more. ;)

I find that people just aren't familiar with what the other councils are doing. This is why I love campuses with Greek Offices that keep all the councils and campus community involved and informed about what every GLO is doing. That's how I was really able to know which IFC, NPC, and NPHC orgs truly WEREN'T doing anything (or were just doing a couple things a semester, which is lame) on or off campus.

Considering I know people from NPHC, Latino and Asian MCGLOs on campus, they don't do that much service. Nearly all of the events they have are ones where they show off their heritage.

Kind of derailing the topic, but MCGLO at my school have been on the decline, while IFC/NPC are on the rise. I don't know if this is a trend, but more students from different ethnicities are going towards IFC/NPC organizations. I know SLG and SLB are severely lacking new members and are down to mostly Juniors/Seniors with a very small minority of Sophomores/Freshmen.

Come on, the average GCer knows that every org does service, on a national level at least. what the local chapter does of course is going to vary.

i just feel like those who mock are similar to Company A who come out with Product(tm) or PromotionalDealDuJour and then Company B, C and D do exactly the same thing. the example that comes to mind is how Subway's $5 Footlong. I dont even LIKE Subway, but for $5 ill take a sandwich. Meanwhile I LOVE LOVE LOVE Quiznos and while they also have the $5 subs, its really doesnt come up on my radar in the way Subway would. Quiznos is doing what Subway is doing, but i doubt they are going to accomplish what Subway did - in my opinion, kept their name relevant and on everyone's mind (cause lord knows i cant get that jingle out my head).

theyre doing what the first ones did, but not necessarily trying to accomplish what the first ones accomplished (or end up missing the mark overall).

How can you be sure the members that you know are telling you everything on their respective calendars? Perhaps the people you know are the ones not doing any service activities?

FYI - Gammas and Betas are not multicultural.

Gammas and Betas sit on our Multicultural Greek Council and are Latina/Latino oriented. How are they not multicultural?

I knew people from NPC and IFC organizations but didn't know all the service they did unless it was specifically reported to us. I doubt you really know what you're talking about.

I trust my friend telling me, "Yeah we didn't do that much service because we didn't have any time" over someone on GreekChat. :rolleyes:

Several of NALFO's organizations do sit on multicultural councils at the local level, but aren't multicultural organizations. SLB and SLG may have multicultural membership, but neither is multicultural in focus.

More here:
http://www.nalfo.org/members.htm
http://www.sigmalambdagamma.com/
http://www.sigmalambdabeta.com/

Wow, I didn't know that. This is good to know, thanks.

You're welcome.

Oh, one person talking about one chapter/organization? Thanks for making sweeping claims about multiple organizations based on that. Or do you have a friend in every chapter who reports to you?

And what does "much service" mean in a quantitative sense? Did your friend hand over their service count?

Since you're volunteering. :)

I understand what you're saying, but maybe the TKEs on your campus weren't doing the hand sign to mock?

I've seen a lot of chapters do the triangle, even "whiter" chapters and mixed chapters and etc. The triple triangle is the main symbol of TKE, and it has a lot of meaning and symbolism to us, so when we "throw it up" it isn't because we're trying to be like NPHC chapters or mock them.

I can't speak for any other IFC/NPC group though, just my own. And I'm not arguing with the fact that some chapters do it just because they think it's cool or they have wanna-be-downitis :p... But in my fraternity, the equilateral triangle has a lot of significance and I don't think the chapters do it to mock.

I was asking a friend about service and what they've done compared to what my IFC org has done. On MY CAMPUS from what I HAVE SEEN, there is a lack of the orgs on the multicultural councils doing service. Did I say service was nonexistant? No. I'm saying that when it comes to it, ON MY CAMPUS, IFC/NPC tend to do more service. At a St. Judge letter writing drive, for example, I saw all of the IFC/NPC orgs and one of the orgs sitting on MCGC. When judicial board had a huge service week with prizes, the IFC/NPC orgs performed much better than the ones on the MCGC.

Did I say, every org on MCGC does no service? No. At my school, in what I have seen and what people tell me, IFC/NPC groups do more.

Unless you are on my campus and can refute this, you really don't have standing to make the claims you are making about me making generalizations.

That's the thing, most of our organizations have their own service initiatives to which our members devote a good deal of time, and often that service takes place off campus and in the community. Just because we are not as much a presence in these campus service events does not mean that we are not performing service. Many of our orgs have service initiatives that focus on the campus, but they are often organized and implemented by our organizations and not as an extension of institutional activities.

You seem to keep missing the point. Just because they aren't participating in university-sponsored service events or events on campus doesn't mean that they're doing less than IFC/NPC organizations.

Like I said, I'm not trying to downplay and say that these orgs don't do service. But from what I have seen at service events open to all GLOs that the ones on multicultural councils have a a really low turnout. Especially given the situation of these orgs on my campus facing member shortages, I would think they would want to get their name out there with all the good they do.

And you refuse to get it. We may not come to those things because we have the business of our organizations to attend to. We are not to be weighed and measured in the same ways that your organizations are, either in terms of service or in terms of members. The goals and methods of IFC/NPC orgs are, generally, not ours.

Maybe the lower numbers have something to do with it? IFC/NPC organizations with 50+ members can afford to send members to various events without missing a beat. That's more difficult for organizations with 5-15 members.

Just know that certain statements can be loaded because your post was about all nonNPC/nonIFC organizations. We explained that some service events are less visible or off campus and you responded telling me about your "friends'" comments and the lack of MCGLOs at St. Judge and during service week. Whether you're accurate in your more general assertions/assumptions is something that you'll need to find out on your own. If you haven't done so already. :)