NPC sororities and other national sororities
 

Should a NPC sorority accept for membership initiated members or a chapter of another national sorority? The answer to this lies in the standards that NPC sororities hold themselves to.

So should a NPC sorority accept a petition for charter by a chapter of a non-NPC national sorority? No - the Unanimous Agreements only mentions "local sorority, local women's fraternity, or interest group" and NPC’s definition of local is a sorority without guidance from or affiliation with any national organization.

From Agreement on Extension under Unanimous Agreements
When a local sorority, local women’s fraternity, or interest group is applying to any member group of NPC for a charter, no other member fraternity of NPC shall communicate with that group, either directly or indirectly.
An NPC fraternity being petitioned for a charter by a local sorority, local women’s fraternity, or interest group located on a campus where a College Panhellenic Association is established shall require that the petitioning organization conform to the College Panhellenic Association’s established rules, regulations, and policies concerning membership recruitment, pledging, initiation and other activities.

So should a NPC sorority accept for membership a group of women who are initiated members of a non-NPC national sorority? No – if the NPC sorority respects other national sororities and expects respect from others in return.

Each NPC sorority agreed to the Unanimous Agreement: a women who is or who has ever been an initiated member of an existing NPC fraternity shall not be eligible for membership in another NPC fraternity. However, the NPC also requires that any organization applying for Associate or Active membership to not have as a member any woman who holds membership in, has resigned from, or been expelled from any other fraternity which is a member of the NPC.

Thus, if the purpose of such an Agreement is to make sure each NPC sorority respect the other NPC national sororities AND the NPC requires any national sorority to essentially abide by such an Agreement in order to become a NPC member, then for an NPC sorority to accept for membership a group of women who are initiated members of a non-NPC national sorority is the height of hypocrisy.

If you want the benefits of the NPC, then join the NPC. Otherwise, you have no place telling NPC sororities what they may and may not do.

kddani - I am not telling NPC sororities what they may and may not do. :p NPC sororities can do whatever they want to do.

I have simply outlined the the standards that NPC sororities hold themselves out to AND based on these standards what "should" be the answer. So the debate would be what are the standards that NPC sororities hold themselves and others to, and do they follow them or is it do as I say and not as I do.

So if a chapter of a non-NPC national sorority has been "released", that would make them an independent local and thus eligible for absorption by an NPC, though, correct?

It's one thing for an NPC to solicit members of a non-NPC/NPHC national for affiliation, but another for the members of a chapter of a non-NPC/NPHC national to decide as a chapter to approach an NPC for affiliation. You make it sound like the "Big Bad NPC" is out to gobble up all other groups.

Does NPC define national organization?

I'm just curious for the sake of being curious - if an NPC chapter was "released", could another NPC absorb it?

No

Why not?

Could they if enough time passed with the chapter operating as a local that all the members initiated into the "old" org had graduated?

Once members have been initiated into one NPC group they are not allowed to be initiated into another NPC group.

Sure, because the members being installed would come from that local.

That was what happened at Carnegie Mellon. The Chi Omega chapter closed, but the women continued to operate as a local for about 15 years and then they affiliated with Alpha Chi Omega. All of the alumnae of the local were eligible for initiation into Alpha Chi Omega except those that had been initiated into Chi Omega.

The flaw in your reasoning here is that the reason the NPC does not require a national sorority to not have a NPC member in its membership as a requirement for membership for any other reason than to avoid being in conflict with itself - if national non-NPC sorority Alpha Alpha decides to apply for NPC membership, any NPC members in Alpha Alpha would be in the position of belonging to two NPCs, which obviously is to be avoided. I think the point is rather moot, because I really doubt there will be any new NPC members (could be wrong, but as things stand now, I doubt it.) So what you are calling hypocrisy is really just consistency. NPC groups will not accept as members initiated members of other NPC groups.
The problem with the very general definition of a national sorority quoted above is what really makes "national" oversight. I think that given the increase in sorority foundings that definition might need to be tightened up and defined more specifically.

eta - do any of these national non-NPC sororities have agreements to not initiate NPC members?

I'm really really trying to parse your sentences and I'm really really failing.

It only makes sense in reference to the item quoted above it, and even then I am afraid that all of the "nots" and "non-NPC" do make it less than clear. Sorry about that.
To try and condense my point - the NPC groups make unanimous agreements which protect the interests of their members. (As do most groups - it's to be expected.) It is a bit of a stretch to ask the NPC to do anything other than police itself - and to do so with anything other than its best interests in mind.
I believe the definition of a national sorority currently being used by the NPC is too broad. With so many groups being formed left and right, and with any one with more than two groups being able to call itself national, the waters are muddied in a way they were not, say, 20 years ago.
And I wanted to know if any non-NPC sorority has any rules that prohibit offering membership to NPC or other sorority members.
HTH

What's the NPC definition of a national org?

I should have said NPC's definition of a non-local (i.e. national) to be 100% correct. Locals are defined as not having any any guidance or affiliation from a national org - that is what I meant by being too vague or general.

eta - I seem to be mucking up the waters rather than helping at all, so I'm bowing out.

Your error in thinking begins with assuming that NPC's unaninous agreements have anything to do with local chapters or Non-NPC national organizations. These agreements extend ONLY to NPC member organizations. The NPC's rules were established to protect its members not the numerous non-NPC groups out there. Like kddani said....if you want NPC protection, join the NPC! As for getting respect from Non-npc groups...I doubt NPC is overly concerned with your opinions.

Two flaws here, one, the NPC has requirements to join, requirements that are thwarted by NPC absorption of non-NPC chapters; two, the question is not whether the NPC as an organization or a group of organizations are concerned about the chapters opinions, but whether the NPC should be concerned.

Of course, I suspect the NPC isn't much concerned with my opinion either.

I don't know what you mean by "thwarted." In the recent cases, the NPC agreements have been followed.

While I agree that the NPC resolutions were created to protect "their own", I don't think that it's right for NPCs to absorb chapters who are initated members of other non-NPC National sororities - whether they be all-women chapters of traditionally co-ed Nat'l service orgs (I think it was Senruset who said some all-female chapters of APO have been absorbed by NPCs), or other groups like that.

As naiive as this sounds, it's called the "Golden Rule". Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I can bet that if a non-NPC Nat'l sorority wanted to initiate a chapter of an NPC org, that NPC group would be pissed off about it just as a non-NPC Nat'l group would be if a NPC took away one of their chapters.

She means that ABC sorority could not become a member of NPC because the iniatiated women of ABC's chapter at BFE State U was absorbed by an NPC group already.

Again, I ask--what constitutes a "national sorority." A sorority with two chapters can incorporate as a "national sorority", thereby making itself national.

My feeling is that since it is not covered by the unanimous agreements specifically--and maybe it should be?--that absorbing a chapter of an non-NPC national is allowable. Is it right? Maybe not, and that is up to each group to judge until NPC addresses the issue specifically.

I also contend that no matter the type of organization, the ultimate interest to consider is that of the women in the chapter and ensuring they have the kind of experience they are seeking. It is their group to run and if they seek other opportunities because they want something different for their members, then that should be okay. Just like there are locals and non-NPC national chapters seeking affiliation with NPC groups, there are also NPC chapters that go local every year because the experience offered is not a match for the desire of the group. It does go both ways.

I don't know what my point was here-- :) This is just a great example of why membership development, programming and keeping up with our members' expectations (staying relevant) are so important, no matter the kind of organization.

True that - and it should probably be talked out and agreed upon ASAP.

As for your second question - are you including NHPC?

Sorry - no, not including NPHC.

And let me remind my NPC sisters that the NPC is not some giant separate organization. We all have a voice through our representatives, and if there is an issue you feel is important you should address it through your org. and NPC rep.

Exactly! To say the the NPC should not do this or should not do that is ludicrous. They can and will ONLY enforce the unanimous agreements. To bash the NPC for recent events involving KBG is just a roundabout way of saying that KD and KKG shouldn't have absorbed those KBG chapters. It's up to the individual NPC organization to decide whether or not it is appropriate to absorb a "national" sorority chapter. If NPC were to decide that we cannot absorb these chapters, then they would have to have a "unanimous" agreement...somehow I doubt that Kappa Delta and Kappa Kappa Gamma would turn on their new sisters and agree to such a change. I'm sure that no NPC organization is gunning to take out any of these small national groups. Each of the recent cases was different, and we likely know little of what actually went on during the decision making process. May I also remind you that KD and KKG were not likely the ONLY NPC organizations to have presented to these chapters for expansion!

Saying "well they should just join the NPC" doesn't work when there is a minimum chapter requirement to join the NPC and your chapters get absorbed by other orgs. The policy of allowing absorption is not one that encourages other orgs to join the NPC, it's more like dangling membership just out of reach, and yanking it away if you get close.

I see your point, but the NPC didn't go to these chapters and ask them to jump ship from their national org. To help these non-NPC groups grow, we must turn down legitimate chapters seeking affiliation who have no intention of staying in the non-NPC group since they don't provide the services they promised? NPC organizations have not been aggressive in these situations so why should they have to apologize for a national not growing or succeeding? It sounds like KBG tried to expand too quickly and was not able to keep up. I doubt they are going to fold like a cheap suit just because one of their new chapters decided not to stay with them. From all of the posts by the one member BootyKBG, they are trying to reorganize. I wish them the best of luck. I think any of our groups can sympathize with chapters closing because they made poor choices or things didn't work out like they planned.

I think that part of the issue with the 2 KBG chapters that did this is that not only did they affiliate with an NPC, they closed their chapter. They could have disaffiliated as individuals, formed an interest group and found an NPC the same way - while keeping the KBG chapter open for any other individuals who might still want that choice, or for their national to come in and try to reorganize.

It's kind of like going through rush and saying "not only am I not going to put ABC on my pref card, I am going to find all the pref cards w/ ABC on them and erase them."

There have been instances of an NPC chapter being suspended at a school, and interested girls bringing a non-NPC group to their school to join "in the meantime". (This happens with NPHC and certain groups as well.) Obviously, this is WRONG to do, but it's even more wrong when once the NPC group comes back and all the girls who really wanted to join that group bolt from the group they brought to campus and leave a handful of girls behind who joined the org for the right reasons. IMO, it would be completely inexcusable for those girls to shut down the chapter they created for their "in the meantime" group.

(I realize this is not the same as the two instances that you are discussing, I just wanted to throw it in as something that does happen.)

You are assuming that any women were left in the chapter to keep it running. Nothing was really stopping KBG from going in and recruiting new members to keep the chapter open. Forming an interest group is simply a formality. In the end, the result would be the same. An interest group of former KBG members and no KBG chapter.

There's a different between bringing in an existing group and creating a group that will serve as an interest group. The latter is perfectly acceptable. The former is sketchy.

Except the school.

Those girls that did not want the switch - and it's irrelevant if it was 10 or 1 - had their chapter taken away when it did not have to be.

She's talking about something like:

Sigma Kappa gets suspended from campus for 2 years (for intimidating everyone with their hotness)
The girls who had been interested in SK but didn't get to pledge start a chapter of Gamma Sigma Sigma
SK gets off their suspension and all the GSS sisters who really wanted to be SKs quit GSS.

Don't get me started on the whole "starting a chapter of a non-NPC national and acting like an NPC to get around the campus not being open for expansion" concept.

Yes, thank you, that's what I meant. To use your hypothetical, it sucks for the girls who joined GSS and DIDN'T want to be SKs that get left behind, and it sucks for GSS overall who have to pick up the pieces and repair the damage to that chapter. If the SK girls closed the GSS chapter entirely upon their leaving, that would just be downright MEAN.

but wait...isnt GSS a service org, while SK is a social org...not the same thing...so why wouldnt they be able to join SK???

They can. There's nothing prohibiting them from doing both, but if they only reason they started the GSS chapter was because the SK chapter was suspended, then they don't really care about the org, it's just a substitute for them until SK comes back.

oh ok...i got you...but then again, that is kinda hard to prove that, since both orgs have different scopes. one is service, one is social...but i get what you're sayin

A better example would be with another NPC or an NPHC org that was started to "pass the time" until SK came back.

Sure, GSS was used to pass the time but none of that matters if GSS members can join NPC and NPHC organizations.