Why So Many Greek Letter Orgs?
 

I'm just wondering why people feel the need to create SOOO many of their own frats/sorors. It seems like there are tons and I almost feel like the whole point of having a Greek letter org is to have something that is expanded and national and creates a cohesive efforts and connection among its members. There are just so many out there that really serve very similar purposes. I understand that the organizations available might not be exactly what you want, but part of the reason you join is to add something you want to it and to improve it so that it's YOUR org and something you contributed a lot to. Reading all of these threads I see that there are literally hundreds upon hundreds of Greek letter orgs and it seems slightly redundant at this point to continue to create them when we're not strengthening the ones that are already existing. They have hundreds of years of tradition, but still every pledge class or new addition of members can add something special and important. So, I'm asking for input from those who have started their own orgs or those who might understand the plethora of Greek letter orgs and those who might have similar questions!

Thanks =)

Well some of them create locals with the hope to be absorbed by a National.

Some create locals to defy traditional Greeks on their campus.

And some just can't hack it as a Greek so they just create their own.

i'm not sure that i fully understand the question, but i will take a stabbed at it.

i think that most greek organizations were begun by a group of friends who wanted a way to make the friendship lasting and make it something more than just a friendship.there were other circumstances that called those founders to begin a new group, depending on the group. i think that is why new greek organizations are still being started today.

they obviously fulfill a need, or the group would die out. for instance, as ksuviolet said, there are 26 npc sororities. if someone decided that there were too many npc sororities and some had to be eliminated, which groups would be the ones to go?

every year during npc recruitment, many pnms go bidless-on a large campus enough usually to start several new chapters. if we were to limit the number of npc sororities, more women would be going bidless.

i think there is room for all of us.

I completely agree...and I don't think that this is a new trend. If you look on ebay, there are numerous badges for sale from old defunct local and national organizations. You just don't know about these groups because they aren't the 26 NPC groups that you hear about.

I totally agree with this. While I can understand the enthusiasm in wanting to create a new org, people often focus on what they think an org can do for them as opposed to what they can bring to the org. If more people thought in terms of what they could offer an already established org and in making that org stronger and better because of their membership, there wouldn't be a need for so many orgs with similar ideals and philanthropies. While having choices is great, having so many orgs causes some newer orgs to have to struggle to increase membership and establish new chapters. It also takes away from the prestige of Greek Life and GLO's. And I'm not talking about those GLO's with a long standing history but more the fly by night ones you hear about in popular threads that read something like "Starting a New Org..." How about starting a new chapter of an org and make it your own, focussing on what you can bring to the org.

I see your point (and rhoyaltempest's), but just because that's part of the reason you joined doesn't mean everybody joins looking for that.

Your question -- "why so many Greek letter orgs" -- doesn't have one answer. Some people start new orgs because they don't see what they are looking for in the existing ones. Some because they want to be part of something new. Maybe even some because no one else wants them. There are a whole variety of reasons and combination of reasons.

And AOII Angel is right -- it's always been this way. You might as well ask, just to use an example, why did three friends start the Philomathean Society at Wesleyan College when there was already an Adelphian Society? Why did anybody in Farmville, VA, think that Zeta Tau Alpha and Alpha Sigma Alpha were needed when they already had Kappa Delta and Sigma Sigma Sigma? Why did Miami of Ohio need Beta Theta Pi when it already had "eastern" fraternities, or Sigma Chi or Phi Delta Theta when it had Beta?

Ever since the founding of Kappa Alpha Society in 1825, students have formed new GLOs. Some have survived, some haven't, and some have merged with other groups. But I'd bet that when most of them were founded, their founders saw a niche or a need that they didn't think was being filled and they went for it.

Maybe it is a simple answer after all.

I think Sigma Chi is a fairly poor example. It wasn't started because there wasn't anything else there they wanted to join, it was started because the founders felt that they couldn't with good conscience remain associated with DKE.

With all due respect, this reason seems to support MysticCat's point. The Founders "started" Sigma Chi Fraternity because as far as they were concerned, a certain niche or need was not being met at Miami.

Exactly. Though perhaps I could have been a little more precise and asked why start Sigma Chi when DKE (rather than just Beta) was already on campus.

Today, there are many reasons that locals are started even back in the olden days.

It mostly was the same thing, they didn't feel right for the individuals so they looked to something else.

Today there are Asian, Latino, and Multi-Cultured being started becauswe they want to fit in with as was well said, niche.

That always made me think that the existing GLOs did not do enough to bring them in or maybe they felt left out?

The niche was being met. The founders were originally initiated DKEs (except for one). Then they decided that they couldn't condone the way DKE was acting anymore, so they went out on their own.

Excellent point!

DKE one of the Union Triad to this day are not very active in expansion.

Source

Another article from the Alpha Gam Quarterly speaks further of our Syracuse Triad and "Dr. Coddy":

I'd say that the niche or need of an organization that behaved in a way they believed they could condone and be part of was not being met -- otherwise they'd have stayed loyal Dekes.

But you say tomato, I say tomahto -- either perhaps misses the main point I was trying to make. That main point was this: Even 170 years ago, any time a new fraternity or sorority started on a campus that already had an existing one, the same question that PhiMu_Gator posed could be asked -- why start a new organization instead of just joining (or being part of) what's already there?

DKE is not part of the Union Triad; it was founded at Yale. The Union Triad is Kappa Alpha Society, Sigma Phi and Delta Phi.

a new sorority
 

I am a cofounder of a local organization. Before comitting myself and others to joining my sorority, I was told to take a wise look at other existing organizations. My campus is fairly moderate in size, with just 3npc groups, one service sorority and seven fraternities, a person in my situation felt that another organization could be beneficial to campus. The effort it takes to submit a request, petition, and gain status as a colony of another organization takes alot more time, nearly a full academic year, before granted status as a recognized chapter. Not to mention the paper work, but I had to make sure the already exsisted organization would fit me personally, even after I learned its history, ideals, and other important things. I would have needed approval from current members of the local ifc and other requirements. At the time the idea of beginning a new group altogether, with a purpose i personally knew fit my idea of greek life seemed very appealing. with encouragement from other students and close friends i pursued the second route. as my group developed more, i enjoyed the activities we perform and i prefer to maintain membership in this organization rather than to be absorbed into a larger group. While i know many offer the possibility to organizie chapters based on previous happenings of the local chapter, i know many nationals have guidelines, and some may not fit with the way my organization is run. Now that i learn more about other sororities that remind me of my own sorority, i can understand how it may appear newer organizations are not needed, but i know what i love about my sisterhood, and i dont feel like i could ever achieve that level in any other organization.

The responsibility of strengthening existing organizations does not fall on the individuals who wish to start their own. Instead of questioning "why so many?" maybe your time would be better spent coming up with ways to strengthen Phi Mu.

I agree with fsuzeta. There's room for all of us.

I think this is the main reason for rampant founderitis. Attracting an established organization and founding a colony takes a lot of work, time, blood, sweat and tears. In far too many cases, it's easier to just start your own organization than to pursue one for...say...four years (like me) and longer for a number of people on GC.

As H0NEY1987 also mentioned, her group didn't want to be restricted by the rules of a national organization. While this is understandable, colleges and universities are beginning to measure all of their campus Greeks against the rules and regulations of national organizations. So, I foresee that many locals will either have to disband or fall in line in the very near future, if it hasn't already taken place.

In response to the thread in general, I believe everyone who has posted thus far has given great reasons for the abundance of Greek organizations. We just have to wait it out and see which organizations stand the test of time.

We also have to remember that Greek life has gone through some phases and movements, which is why you see lots of younger Latin, Asian and multicultural GLOs today. Just as it was in the beginning with NPC, some of these organzations will not make it and some have already disbanded.

MysticCat...i always enjoy your precise and well thought out posts!

I think we will see organization closures and merging amongst some of the newer orgs after they encounter some of the general issues that well established orgs have/had such as funding, lawsuits, and maintaining a steady membership of devoted members.

That's almost inevitable. Who knows...we may not always have 26 NPCs! Some NPCs have folded in the past so nothing is certain.

I do agree that there is an abundance of Greek orgs- especially the Mutlicultural, Asian, Latin, etc.

I understand the argument that they fit a niche on certain campuses, but I think it'll be interesting to see where all these newer orgs that were founded in 1980s on up are 50 years from now.

Most of these orgs were founded because their founders didn't feel at home with a "mainstream" historically White fraternity or sorority.

But what will happen when their "niche" starts to subside and you have, for example, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th generation Asians/Hispanics/South-Asians/etc who are assimilated and don't feel the need to stick to an organization that promotes their culture? Will these organizations eventually die off, or will they stick around and continue to serve their purpose and niche?

Take for example my school, FIU, that has about 39,000 students of which about 58% are Hispanic. You would think that the Latin fraternties/sororities- like the Lambdas, LTA, LUL, SLG, etc- would be huge at such a school, but actually that's not the case. The majority of people in IFC/PC groups are Hispanic and the demographics of the school reflect upon the demographics of Greeks, maybe because the Hispanics that grow up in S.Florida (where most FIU students are from) are 2nd, 3rd generation and grew up with a more "assimilated" lifestyle than in other hispanic parts of the country.

So what is my point? Eventually, as the generations pass and America changes, the niche of a lot of these orgs will diminish and people will need more reasons besides "oh I'm [insert ethnicity here] so I'm going to join a [insert ethnicity here] fraternity" to join these orgs.

Didn't mean to hijack, but its just something to think about. :)

well, to give credit, a lot of our chapters have just started to be founded in the past 5-10 years, and they are slowly expanding.

As far as 2nd-5th generation, you only have to look at the # of asian/latin fraternities and sororities in California to see that people are still joining by the droves. LTA's biggest line (29) was UCLA (spring 2008), and I know personally asian sororities in cali get soooo many girls to rush, bids, pledge, etc.

so, who knows, I agree it will be interesting 50 years from now where we all are...

i don't think you hijacked at all and i appreciate your perspective on this topic.

I too am looking to see what 50 years down the line looks like.

I would say that this is only partially. I think it has played a significant part in the foundings of organizations. Wanting something that supports/emphasizes your culture also plays a part.

I don't have the numbers (I'm not even sure if this research has even been done), but I would argue the majority of people in culture specific orgs are not first generation Asians/Hispanics, etc, but in fact 2nd+ generation.

This would occur anywhere where the vast majority of the population of a college/university were all of X ethinicity. An NIC/NPC organization at an HBCU would predominantly African-American as the population of the university plays a huge role in membership in ANY GLO on campus. I don't think it should be a surprise that IFC/PC membership at FIU has a significant latino population if that is the majority of the school's population.

I haven't been to S. FLA in a while, but I (personally) wouldn't say S. Floridian latinos are more "assimilated". But there are also degrees of assimilation (IMO), so it could be that we are thinking of different things.

It seems like you are demeaning or downplaying people's decision/the way they make their decision to join a particular GLO. That's like me assuming you said "I'm Hispanic, but assimilated, so I will join an IFC org". That's an uniformed assumption.

I would hope that no one joins any organization solely based on their race or ethnicity. I realize that you've stated these organizations do not have a strong presence on your campus, but maybe you misunderstand what they're about?

One thing to remember here is that these organizations tend to be a lot smaller than NPC/IFC orgs by design. The size of a particular chapter doesn't necessarily indicate the actual interest on that campus. For instance, we have chapters that consistently have a pool of 50+ interests, but we can afford to be uber-selective and end up with lines of 6-10.

You also have to consider that the internal culture of Latin/Asian/Multicultural orgs is different from that of NPC/IFC or even NPHC. You can't get the multicultural Greek experience in an NPC/IFC group.

I don't think that PhiMu_Gator is referring to the 26 NPCs. Rather, I think she means the people that preciousjeni was addressing in this thread - those with rampant "founder-itis." (And I am rolling at the "what not to do.")

Oh, and also, "all the sororities/fraternities rejected me" is not a good reason to start a new one. GLOs have to have desirable members to compete with the other groups on campus. It's one thing to start a group when you've been through rush and didn't like the materialism, or the hazing, or simply that there were only 2 groups to pick from and you want another choice. It's another to make a whole group full of rejects.

An alert came through on e-mail that BabyPiNK_FL had made a comment. I guess she deleted it. But, for the record, I didn't take the comments by PANTHERTEKE as an insult nor am I "throwing things." That was a crazy comment, so I'm glad it was deleted.

Yep, it isn't just race or ethnicity because I've never had an aspirant say "...because I'M BLACK...DUH!!!" in an interview. That wouldn't go over well.

At the same time, race and ethnicity of the majority of aspirants and members will always be a big factor. That is a huge compotent of why we were founded, all that we have accomplished, and much of what we continue to do.


Exactly.

And, no, I do not believe that race or ethnicity will ever be UNimportant in America nor do I want the niche that BGLOs and MCGLOs fill to go away. As long as people realize that race or ethnicity don't have to "disappear" for it to no longer have negative implications.

I'm sorry if I came off as not understanding what they're about. I understand that they fit a purpose in the Latin community and I appreciate it, but my post was referring to people who were talking about serving a "niche" catered to minority students. I was just trying to say that niches can change, and that it'll be interesting if the niches are the same 50 years from now.

Again, if it came off like that then I didn't mean for it to. What I was trying to say that now there are still a lot of minorities that do not feel comfortable joining IFC/PC groups, which adds to the popularity of the cultural organizations; but 50 years from now, as the "minority" population grows and acceptance of other people grows and discrimination and racism decreases (hopefully it will), then maybe there will be more minorities who feel at home in an IFC/PC group and that the niche that these cultural orgs serve will not be as strong as they are now. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say. But I get you're point, I didn't mean to imply that people who join these cultural orgs only do so because they're latin/asian/etc.

Well now I know. :)

Exactly. That was part of the point I was trying to make in my post. Race and ethnicity is/will always be a big factor of why people join these cultural organizations.

But 50 years from now, if we can imagine an America thats more integrated/tolerant/non-discriminative/whatever (if that ever happens) and more minorities feel at home in IFC/PC and join those orgs, then how will that affect the niche and role of these cultural orgs?

Then again, I'm sure there will always be people who aren't interested in "white" fraternities and sororities.

The niche hasn't gone away in 100 years. It has only evolved. :) Look forward to more evolution without dissolution 50 years from now.


America isn't going to change that much. The dynamics we see here are seen in various forms all over the globe. This industrialized nation works the way it works for a reason. I won't get into that.

As for the future: :D I will be a Delta Dear and I will enjoy hanging with the Spring 2058 Sorors. They might be more diverse in race and ethnicity and background. But my guess is that they will still be majority African diasporic, since this country is just one piece of the world puzzle of cultures, ethnicities, and overall human relations.

And that's a GOOD thing.

And there will always be "white" fraternity and sorority chapters and members who aren't interested in certain groups of people. But you are correct because we always discuss the similarities and differences between NPC and IFC and NPHC and MCGLOs in terms of founding purposes, traditions, operations, and programs. The similarities and differences are GOOD and I have no desire for a melting pot in terms of organizations or in terms of society. A salad bowl works perfectly as long as people seek understanding and fairness.

The niche of NPHC orgs hasn't gone away, but I was more referring to the other minority GLOs.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it'll change for the better, maybe for the worse.

I agree 100% :)

:) Your original quote that my Soror responded to didn't specify but I see that you referenced LGLOs, AGLOs, and MCGLOs in the rest of that post. I see the context of your post but what you said can easily apply across the board.

NPHC and LGLOs and MCGLOs aren't the only organizations where race and ethnicity are important/members often join because of race. This happens for "white" fraternities and sororities, too. Although these organizations are supposedly not "culturally specific" and whites often considered themselves to be mainstream and to not have a "race." Until the wonderful advancement of "whiteness" studies happened approx. 20 years ago.



Well, your comment of change didn't imply a good or bad as far as I'm concerned. It simply implied that there will be so much diversity that everyone will become one gooblygob of humanity and there will no longer be a niche for particular types of organizations. I'm not psychic but don't foresee that happening across the board and don't particularly want that to happen.

You know, in all the interviews I've sat thru of aspirants, I've never once heard anyone say they wanted to join because they're Black either....LOL. But I bet some people out there think this is the case. If people knew more about us and our history, they would know that there are far more reasons (better reasons) for wanting to join our orgs.

Definitely.

Just like someone interviews for a job that they initially wanted because they "won't be the only black person in the office, anymore." But the person doesn't say that, of course. Not that not wanting to be the only black person in the office is a bad thing, it just shouldn't be the only thing. :p

Lol I think you're reading into what I wrote a bit much.

I never said or implied that the US will become one big culture in the future. I said that as the demographics of this country changes that the niche for some organizations will probably diminish, not become extinct... and I posed a hypothetical question.

And I agree with you that I don't think we will become "one gooblygob of humanity" nor do I want that to happen either.

I'm not sure if this was where you're going, but do you mean historically Jewish fraternities and sororities?

Plus, there's Alpha Phi Delta. It was founded by and for Italian-Americans.

http://www.apd.org/about/thebeginning.php

I think that there are other NIC groups that began with a specific ethnicity but APD is the only one I know of.

;) It was obviously hypothetical. I wasn't reading too much into it, seeing as though your post could be interpreted a few ways.

I was just trying to place your hypothetical in a realistic context. When people say that "race will no longer be important"/"less of a need...." they are usually thinking of cultural absorption of some degree. If not for that, why would these organizations' niches substantially diminish?

If you're saying that the minority populations will increase so much in size that they near the majority, even this (or the power differentials that shift, accordingly) may not diminish a niche.

I think he's thinking about things like many cities used to have what was basically an Irish ghetto, and they no longer do.

But the thing is, you can change your name from Colleen O'Toole to Candace Towers. You can't really change your race (unless you're Eddie Murphy in that old SNL skit ;) ).