Washington and Lee Recruitment...what is it like?
 

I was surprised to read that Washington and Lee University has 5 chapters, and that 75% of undergraduate women are sorority members.
I'm just curious about what recruitment is like...I know it's in January, but that's about it.

According to Post 1 of http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=95900, W&L Panhel is expanding to 6 groups.

I'm currently a freshman in a sorority at w&l, so maybe I can help answer some of your questions. Formal rush is the first week you get back from winter break, which is early January. It's a week of visiting houses and doing different activities (philanthropy night, skit night, etc). Thursday night you'll be down to 2 houses, which you then pref. Friday is bid night!! Informal rush happens all fall term. You'll go on rush dates, meet lots of upperclassmen girls, and basically just figure out what you want to do. You'll have 6 sororities to choose from instead of just 5, since ADPi is coming next year. Feel free to ask any questions. Plus, you'll get a Rho Gamma to explain everything once you get to campus. Hope this helps!

Yay! Lexington is my hometown (and I heart the Lex Vegas)! A bunch of my high school classmates go/went there, but I can't tell you much about the Greek system there besides the houses are amazing to look at, almost everyone does rush/recruitment, and the frats throw some amazing parties. Don't wear your good shoes.

Thanks for your quick answers! I'm not asking for me (I'm an alum and my sorority is not on the W&L campus).
It sounds like there is a lot that happens informally in the fall...does this help to make formal rush less intimidating?
My college had maybe 15-20% of undergraduate women participating in sororities...I wondered if the high rates of participation at W&L make a rushee feel like the stakes are really high, or does it mean there really is a place for everyone?
P.S. Why should a rushee not wear her good shoes? Is it snowy?

I'm a W&L alum who was president of my chapter. I graduated in '05.

In terms of the informal recruitment period in the fall, there is good and bad for the PNMs. Good, it lets you get to know upperclass women, and lets you get a "feel" for all of the groups before you join. Bad, there is a lot of what is called "tent talk" at other schools that gets spread around. Freshmen tend to have very stereotypical, inaccurate pictures of the houses. I say this as a former W&L freshman who had at least one stereotype of a house (that I did not join) that was completely wrong and really turned me off to that house.

I think that for some women at W&L the stakes are VERY high. When I was there, there was a definite "top three" that many women wanted to join. Although, I think that was increasingly becoming a "top two" with the third house down becoming more comparable to the "bottom two" houses (by the time I graduated, anyway). Obviously, things might have changed since I was there. My impression is that some women, particularly those who come in from particular southern high schools, know exactly which groups they will consider from day 1. In parallel fashion, the "top" groups also know from day 1 who some of their prime PNMs will be. The advantage of the informal recruitment period is that the houses also get a chance to know other women that they might not have considered based on day 1. So I've seen women that didn't have an "elite southern background" join the "top" group, because their friend group was those women and the "top" group genuinely liked them and brought them along for the ride. The DISADVANTAGE is that some freshmen women learn the stereotypes really quickly and get their hearts set on only joining two or three groups, and meet girls from those houses and convince themselves that because of informal recruitment they will definitely get in. So getting a rejection in that case is even more devastating than getting one to a house you feel like you've only "known" for a week.

Conversely, though, because of the high percentages of Greek life at W&L, there are many women who go Greek at W&L who might not have at other institutions. A lot of these women are just interested in the sorority experience, the leadership opportunities, and the housing and food opportunities (which are a MAJOR part of sophomore life at W&L), and are content to join nearly any group they feel a "fit" with. I would definitely say that I fell into the latter category during recruitment (for the most part - with the exception of my one really bad house stereotype!).

That was a long answer! Whew!

In terms of "good shoes," often it is snowy during recruitment week. I think like 3/4 times of recruitment for me at W&L it was snowy. Usually if it's snowy, Panhellenic dictates that women should wear practical shoes on the first night and that the sororities shouldn't judge them for doing so. LOL. But I don't remember anyone ever wearing sneakers/snow boots on preference night!!!

Welcome xoredhotxo to the boards. Not many W&L people here - there used to be a Theta who posted a few years back who was a year or two above me, but she's since disappeared...

This is totally accurate but I wanted to add a few things. Recruitment at W&L (at least through 2006) has the following nights:

Philanthropy Night - make a craft
Skit Night - duh, you can figure this out
Sisterhood Night - watch a sisterhood video
Preference Night - have a pref ceremony

It goes 5-4-3-2. However, ADPi will be colonizing this year, so I have no idea how they will change those numbers. Due to the unusual nature of W&L, ADPi will be colonizing DURING formal recruitment. So obviously the first night will have 6 houses. I don't have any idea how they'll work from then on, though.

Besides the informal recruitment dates (which basically consist of sorority members calling you up and saying "let's hang out," often in large groups), there are also formal "Meet the Greeks" informational events that occur in the fall. I would guess ADPi will be doing some to promote themselves and their colonization as well in the fall.

Also, each freshman hall gets its own assigned Rho Gamma, which I think helps encourage people to register for recruitment...

xoredhotxo, feel free to correct any of that if it was outdated.

Heh, sorry I was referring to the frat parties and the sludge on their basement floors. :) Lexington used to get some really good snows when I growing up, but we don't really get them anymore.

breathesgelatin did a really great job of giving all the information of sororities at w&l! as far as the "Stakes are high" thing, each house does have its stereotype. some people buy into those, some don't. the best thing to do is to really see where you personally feel the most comfortable. pledging a "top" house just because of its reputation could spell disaster if you don't really fit in with the girls. plus, with so many women in sororities, each house is going to have a variety of girls, despite its stereotype. things are going to change a little next year because of the addition of ADPi. as far as the nights go, it's going to be 6-5-3-2. the nice thing about gettin g a 6th srat is that our pledge classes will be smaller. (they're about 37 now). girls tend to get stressed out about rush (I know i did!) but in the end it is such a worthwhile experience

Thank you all for your insights! This board is such a tremendous resource!

After my freshman year I started buying a specific cheap pair of heels for frat parties every season. Frat sludge = the nasty.

Breathesgelatin, as one of the people who has volunteered to help out with the ADPi colonization, do you think that not having the first term inside scoop on the freshmen will help or hurt? Please be brutally honest!

Ahh.... possibly. I mean, all the other sororities will have a pretty good idea in January of who they'd like in their pledge class. Maybe that's more than I should say, but it's the truth.

On the other hand, ADPi will be recruiting slightly different people. My guess is that a lot of upperclass women who weren't satisfied with their sorority options or who just didn't join before for whatever reason might now be interested in ADPi. (Certainly when I was a senior in 2005 a bunch of upperclass women went to the Panhel expansion presentations.) Also, W&L has gone through this same thing before with both Pi Phi and KD and both remain on campus as strong chapters.

I mean... I think that honestly ADPi is going to get a weird mix of people at first. I know from secondhand knowledge that the initial pledge classes of Pi Phi and KD were both pretty diverse... it took a while for them to establish their chapter identities. The KD seniors when I was a freshmen (01-02 schoolyear) were in the chapter when most of the KD founding class (recruitment 1997, thus graduating class 2000) were there. The KD seniors when I was a freshman were frankly not like the girls who pledged KD when I pledged Pi Phi... it took a while for KD to sort of establish its identity. What I know of Pi Phi's colonization (from founding alums who advised our chapter) presents a similar story: some upperclassmen/transfers, some girls who were hardcore Pi Phi legacies, some girls who were interested in starting something new and some who were just like... ok. The thing is that the way they did matching when KD and Pi Phi colonized was that the colonizing group had a quota of 70 and everybody else divided what was left... so frankly, ADPi is going to get MOST of the girls. Also due to the way the numbers will work, they're probably going to get some girls that didn't necessarily want ADPi as their first choice (this would again match up with my anecdotal knowledge of past W&L colonizations). The competition for the 20 or so spots the other houses each have is probably going to be fierce - a lot of girls are probably going to want to join groups that are a known factor and where they have upperclassmen friends. So a lot of girls that listed other places second might end up with ADPi in bid matching.

This is all my conjecture based on what I know of past recruitments (which is pretty extensive, but obviously not infallible and obviously W&L could have changed the way they're doing colonization from the past). So... take it with a grain of salt. I think ADPi is going to have a great colonization! I just think they're going to get a really diverse group of girls and it's going to take a while for them to really find their identity on campus.

Having seen a recolonization before, I figured as much. Lots of women (who for one reason or another) didn't get a bid, legacies, and upperclassmen, along with the few who were intrigued by the new kid on the block. It took the chapter with which I'm familiar about 3 years to find their stride, and another 3-4 years to really excel - but they did it.

One of the biggest differences I see in the two is that, with the recolonization, there was still the interview process. Which isn't infallible - one of the women who didn't pass the interview ended up getting a bid two years later, and was on Homecoming Court!

It's becoming "curiouser and curiouser"!!

Yeah, I guess they just skip the interview part at W&L colonizing recruitments if they're doing full-on formal recruitment with the other groups? Or maybe one of the nights will sort of BE an interview night? I have no clue. Sorry I'm not more help.

Do you know which chapter(s) is/are coming in to help? Our chapter always felt warm and fuzzy about the William & Mary Pi Phi chapter b/c they recruited our colonizing class and our house mother was an alum of that chapter. :)

I don't know at this time. There's just been the random "are there any alumnae interested in helping out?" statement. We haven't a chapter at W&M, so they won't be there. Maybe UVA?

I think each group just chooses whatever group they think would be most skilled at recruitment in an admittedly somewhat awkward situation. I know that some of the groups that presented in 2005 mentioned UVA & V-Tech. One even mentioned flying a chapter in from Texas. (:eek:!!!!!!!)

According to a Kappa alum with a UVa ADPi D, at least some of the girls from that chapter will be helping with the W&L colonization. UVa is always on break when W&L's recruitment occurs and then UVa's recruitment is almost immediately following so not all actives will be in the area.

A lot of members from our George Washington University chapter will be helping out - they were pushing hard for help at District III's DLC so probably a lot of the D3 chapters like Va. Tech, UVA, etc. will be there. I will likely be there for a lot of the W&L colonization.

Knowing the girls I know who went to top houses there...

Recruitment is tough.

Could you please expand more on "the colonizing group had a quota of 70 and everybody else divided what was left"? This type of colonizing (i.e. during formal) is fascinating.

Specifically, how does the whole preference party thing work? For sake of discussion, say the numbers are the same. Does Alpha Delta Pi turn in their "first bid list" with 70 names while the other five chapters turn in their "first bid list" with 20? Is there a "second bid list" etc.?

Directed to anyone...

Not to get into membership selection, but in a full-on formal recruitment, if there isn't an interview (by whom ever the expansion team sends etc.), then *generally speaking*, how does it work? Does the recruitment mirror the other chapters? I can understand how philanthropy night would be easy to convey. But say for example, if it is "skit night" or "spirit night". Do the undergraduate girls (i.e.the ones from other chapters) and/or alumnae perform a skit? I'm not trying to be silly, but I am curious as to how it might work since the concept of NPC formal recruitment is to put all the chapters on some sort of equal footing.

And do the undergrads from the other colleges get a say in member selection?

Thanks for the indulgence.

Thanks for the questions TSteven. Right now you're getting to the point where it's pushing my knowledge of past recruitments at W&L. OK.

In 1991, a NPC group attempted to colonize at Washington and Lee and failed. They conducted their colonization efforts AFTER formal recruitment. There were just not enough women that didn't go Greek in formal recruitment to support a strong colony. So in 1992, when Pi Beta Phi (my chapter, by the way) colonized, they held recruitment the way I've mentioned - with a quota of 70 (total at W&L) for Pi Phi and everyone else dividing what was left among the other three groups according to normal quota assignment formulas. This procedure was again used in 1997 with Kappa Delta. I was guessing around 20 for the other groups' quota because:

W&L's 2008 quota = 37 (I think)
37 x 5 = 185 women pledged (technically there were more than this because some groups got quota plus, but for the sake of simplicity)
185 - 70 = 115, approximately the number left after taking out a colonizing class
115 / 5 = 23, my conjectural 2009 quota for the "original" 5 groups

As far as bid lists go, that would be correct. ADPi would turn in their first bid list with 70 names. The other groups' first bid lists would have 23, or whatever the quota turns out to be in reality.

It's also possible ADPi could take average chapter size rather than total of 70. Average chapter size is going to be a significantly higher number than 70, but at the same time, taking that many wouldn't leave many members left over for the other groups.

As far as membership selection, I am much less qualified to answer that question. I do know (as stated before in this thread I think) that Pi Phi and KD both used a combination of alums, national officers, and actives from other schools to conduct their colonizing recruitments. I know that the William & Mary Pi Phi chapter was the one who came for my chapter's recruitment (don't know about KD). As far as ADPi goes it looks like a combination of different Virginia chapters, maybe led by GWU, will be participating.

I agree with you that certain nights would be easier than others. Philanthropy night should be easy. Sisterhood night should also be fairly easy - it's basically a sisterhood video so a national expansion video could probably be used, or the national office could make something new. Skit night... might be harder. I guess they'd get the collegiates to do a skit?

It's also possible that the colonizing groups do other activities that don't necessarily line up with the "official" theme for the night. I am sure W&L Panhel would give them a lot of leeway on this. I also don't think it would really hurt them in recruitment because the PNMs would understand the need for the difference. Quite honestly, though, I just don't know enough about what happened with Pi Phi and KD to speak to this, and of course ADPi could always do its own thing.

As far as membership selection... frankly, without formal interviews (and I don't see how formally interviewing EVERYONE would be possible in this setting), I don't see how they couldn't use the other collegiates' feedback in membership selection to some extent. By the very nature of the beast, the collegiates are probably going to outnumber alums, I would think. I just don't see how a small group of alums or national officers could legitimately meet all the PNMs during this type of recruitment. But again, I don't have any specific knowledge of how that worked in Pi Phi or KD's colonization.

I could, I suppose, email some of our founding members to find out. I know a few...

Here's something I wondered about...

If there is going to be a significant contingent of women who are only interested in being in the colony (upperclassmen, ADPi quintuple legacies, what have you), won't it kind of suck for the girls in the other sororities to have to (un-PC here) waste time being nice to them?

Or is it a moot point since they'll get cut on the first night?

LOL. This question makes me laugh.

I would guess that a lot of upperclass women are going to register with the sole purpose of joining ADPi. At W&L, there's always a handful of sophomores that rush but usually no juniors or seniors. I think some juniors and seniors will probably rush with the intention of going ADPi or nothing. The sophomores will probably be open to ADPi but also looking at the other groups (frankly, a lot will depend if they didn't receive a bid period their first year, if they didn't like the bid options they got, or if they just didn't make grades freshman year).

Quite honestly though, I don't think that will be significant contingent of upperclass women going through recruitment. There are usually like MAYBE 10 sophomores going through. Max. So maybe, possibly, like 30-35 upperclassmen total? That would be a huge stretch I think though. I just don't know. And TBH some of the women who really desperately want to join the new group might not still be... the ideal candidates.

I think all the groups at W&L will be nice to the girls. I was always impressed that the "top" group at W&L ran the nicest recruitment and people always had the best experience with them even if they knew from day 1 they would not get a bid there. Also, I was always impressed that girls who knew they wanted to join that group were nearly always (there were a few exceptions) very friendly and open during recruitment, despite the fact that we both knew they didn't want to join my group. LOL. I can't say that for all the groups at W&L, by far.

I would think the juniors & seniors get cut at the established houses pretty quickly. Everyone will know why they are rushing. Sophomores, it's anyone's guess. I've seen people who got rejected at one house one year join it the next because the people in their class are on board with them joining.

I would think there's a lot of ADPi legacies at W&L, but frankly if they're from certain backgrounds they might want to join the top established group over an untested group. Just being brutally honest there. I do think that some people who are less concerned about reputation will want to join ADPi as legacies. Or if their mom is a national officer or something of that sort.

Frankly, I guess my question is how "significant" the contingent of women who are going through recruitment ONLY for ADPi will be. I think most women will probably be looking at established houses as well as ADPi. And again, due to issues surrounding quota, there's a chance that a lot of women who put some other house #1 and ADPi #2 are going to end up in ADPi just because of the numbers game. The competition for the established houses is going to be really intense.

The other thing to consider is that I think one of the #1 factors affecting recruitment at W&L is friend groups. So you make all these friends on your hall first semester freshman year, and the girls all want to join a house together. I've seen this affect recruitment a lot of times in cases where one of the girls could get a "higher tier" group and she ends up joining the "lower tier" one to be with her friends. So maybe ADPi could nab a bunch of friend groups in this way.

I could be getting this mixed up with another school, but I remember reading in a college guidebook once something that i've always wondered about.

some girl was describing w&l recruitment and how it was great because people who don't get their first choice get placed in their 2nd choice, so noone gets left out. perhaps i am misinterpreting this, but how would that work out? is it just that by the time they get through to pref round they are guaranteed a bid if they "maximize their options"?

actually looking back on this now, that is probably what they meant. i was just so confused i guess because of how it was phrased...which i don't remember exactly. but if you have any insight i am curious :)

How do you think it will play for ADPi to not have a gorgeous house in which to host rush as compared to the other groups? What's an equivalent place they could use that's in reasonable proximity for Rounds? If I'm matching dates correctly, those houses weren't built during the 2 previous expansions and I could see that being a big deal.

There is no guaranteed bid system at W&L. Some schools guarantee you a bid if you maximize your options throughout recruitment - this is true. W&L does not.

That said, if you maximize your options, you will more than likely get a bid at W&L. It's a very small number who completely "fall through" recruitment (as it's known on campus) due to all the sororities releasing them. The majority of women who don't receive bids at W&L don't receive bids because they choose not to join certain groups.

I think I've said this elsewhere, but I don't really think it will hurt them at all to not have a house the first year if it's known for sure to PNMs that there will be a house in the near future. That was the main reason expansion failed when they attempted it my senior year - there were no funds allocated for a 6th house (W&L insists on owning & building all the houses) and the sororities selected realized it would be fruitless to colonize without a house on the way.

The problem is definitely what is the equivalent place they could use. I am guessing they will do it in the Commons as it's just over the Cadaver bridge. The law school is also close but I don't think they have any appropriate spaces. The other option would be somewhere in the gyms, which are just over the Sorority bridge. But for some reason I think it will almost certainly be the Commons. (For the non W&Lers, the sorority houses are located beside the football field and law school, separated from the rest of the campus but two bridges over a large ravine.)

The houses opened in Fall 2000, so that did not affect colonization for Pi Phi ('92) and KD ('97). Recruitment was formerly held in the University Center (the building connected to and beside the old Dining Hall, don't know what it is now called, I think it was renamed). Catering is in there now and I believe the Counseling Center is still there as well. Recruitment then was considerably more frilly and houses papered the walls/floors of the rooms completely with these huge murals and used way more decoration. Most of those rooms are now used for catering/the W&L business office though. It's also pretty far from the sorority houses.

According to what I've heard, the ADPi house is on track to be built for the beginning of the 2009-2010 schoolyear. At least that's what I've heard. So that would mean potentially 2 recruitments for ADPi sans a house.

The nice part of that is that ADPi members will get a lot of input into what they'd like in their house. The house will be on the far side of Kappa, closest to the Sorority bridge. Its address will 12 Frank Parsons Way. :)

The lack of the house probably wouldn't bother the PNMs if they see it in the process of being built. It's possible that the Class of '12 ADPi might get to live in the house as srs if the school breaks ground on schedule.

I was just wondering about the logistics of recruitment parties if it's 5 houses all in a row and then one off somewhere else on campus.

OK, I don't want to derail the thread, but I HAD to ask about the origin of this name.

Yeah, the logistics will be weird; I'm assuming if they do ADPi's over the bridge, they'll have to add some extra time between parties.

The Cadaver Society is a secret society. They're probably the most prestigious of the secret societies at W&L. Reportedly it's mostly rich southern pre-meds. About once a month they get really drunk and tag the campus with their symbol. And run around sorority row making fools of themselves and talking in really high voices. And sometimes making their "pledges" dance for us. :p

Anyway their alums give a lot of money to the university, including donating the money for a big concrete bridge across the ravine to the football field.

There's a bunch of web images of the Cadaver society and other secret societies at the link below, including the Cadaver symbol/tag and the bridge:

http://journalism.wlu.edu/rrarchive/...28611/real.htm

Thanks for posting the link.

During college, I had a summer internship and one afternoon a few of us were talking about our college experience - including fraternities, sororities and secret societies etc. There was a Washington & Lee student and a Virginia Military (VMI) student in our group. (They were actually from the same town in Kentucky.) While the W&L guy never confirmed if he was a member of one, he did say that it was his understanding that some of the W&L secret societies included students from VMI. The VMI guy claimed to not know anything about any secret societies. Have you heard anything along those lines? Not that it might matter, but this would have been back when both W&L and VMI were all male.

I can't say I do know anything about VMI cadets being members of W&L secret societies. I know that VMI cadets would be in big trouble if they got found out to be in a secret society (that's the reason why Sigma Nu and ATO, who were both founded at VMI, will probably never have chapters there again). So it's possible but I'm sure it's really underground if that's the case. I mean I'm no expert on W&L secret societies by any means.

My general impression is that coeducation eventually harmed relations between VMI guys and W&L men. If you read the whole slide presentation about the minks thing, you see that VMI and W&L have been competing for women for like ages. And I think there's a lot of tension now over who gets to date W&L women. The competition is even more intense now as a lot of the women's colleges become co-ed or change culturally, plus W&L women are right there.

The first few years of co-education the W&L fraternities were dead set on "boycotting" dating W&L women, but that didn't last for very long. :rolleyes: Especially since all the SMART women in the region quit going to the women's colleges and starting going to UVA and W&L. (And I say this having a mom as an alum of a women's college about 45 minutes north of W&L - even she admits that her school has changed completely academically and culturally since she was there.) A lot of the women who are the more "traditional" student types for Hollins, Sweetbriar, etc., just go to Hampden-Sydney or UVA... partially I think because W&L women are so hostile to them.

There are some VMI guys that hang out at W&L fraternities and don't get mocked for it/asked to leave by brothers... Usually guys the W&L people know from high school. One of my sorority sisters dated (and is actually about to marry now) a VMI cadet who went to Woodberry Forest with a bunch of W&L guys and he was welcome pretty much everywhere. But that was more due to cultural reasons than anything else.

neither pi phi nor kappa at u of florida are located where the other sororities are on campus(pi phi is located amongst the fraternities) and uf panhellenic seems to be able to cope with getting pnms to either place with out much problem and it doesn't seem to effect either sororities rush results. maybe it will be the same at w & l.

Well, hopefully the issue will be resolved after 2 recruitments. Then ADPi will take its place right beside Kappa. The issue is just where they'll hold recruitment in the meantime because of the location of the sorority houses being relatively far from everything else. Like I said I think they'll just do it in the Commons and give the PNMs a bit more time to get between houses and it should work out fine.

The greater issue would be is if W&L ever wants to add a seventh sorority (and I've said on these boards that I think they will because Panhellenic is so committed to getting chapter size down to around 70). That would be a problem because when they planned the houses they didn't see the growth that Panhellenic would experience and only made room for six houses. I think that would really harm the seventh sorority. They could possibly be given a fraternity house, but the fraternity houses aren't really comparable to the sorority houses unfortunately. If they used a fraternity house they would almost definitely have to bus people back and forth between the seventh house as well.

There are going to be 15 minutes between parties instead of the usual 10. ADPi will be using a room in the Commons, according to the main rumor going around. While the extra time between parties will be nice for us, I feel sorry for those poor girls who will have to be standing outside in the freezing January night! Hopefully they'll remember to wear sweatpants and Ugg boots underneath their dresses and to bring their coats!

Thanks for the on campus update! My predictions are so money. bwa hahaha. :D

Thanks for the explanation. I've seen that funky skull thing all over town but I always thought it was a fraternity thing.

I'm a current senior at W&L and needless to say, the rumor mill is overflowing with talk about ADPi. The latest official news that I've heard from Panhel is that they're being allowed to take as many upperclassmen women as they can get before formal recruitment in January. During formal recruitment, their quota will be set around 70, so in theory, if they can get a large number of upperclassmen women this fall, their chapter size could be quite a bit larger than the others on campus, though I doubt this will end up being an issue. Quota for the other houses will be set as others have said around 20 or so. No firm decision has been made as to where ADPi will be for formal recruitment, but they've been given the choice between the dance studio in the gym and the Morris House on the hill - apparently there are plans to shuttle the PNMs between srat row and the hill using golf carts. Also, unlike in previous years, the schedule is 6-5-3-2 and what used to be philanthropy night (night 1) is now "open house" night while philanthropy has been rolled in with sisterhood night on night 3. ADPi had girls here on Friday for a Meet the Greeks cookout from UVa and VA Tech so that the PNMs could meet collegiate women and not just nationals reps.