dinosaurs and the bible
 

Ready for the random question of the day?

This is a conversation going on in my family thanks to a question posed by one of my nephews. The responses from various members of the family has been beyond interesting. So, I thought I'd post it here too and get a really wide set of responses.

So here it is: how do you explain dinosaurs in relation to the bible?


Don't you just love kids and their little minds????!?

Ummmm...weren't dinosaurs before humans?

I can't always remember this stuff because popular culture often feeds us images of humans fighting and flying on teradactals and stuff.

:confused:

Yes, yes there were. But that's what sparked the question. He was learning Genesis, learned about the world being made in 7 days, He made the animals and plants and flowers (never mentions dinosaurs or the cataclysmic end to their species) and then made man. Maybe it's an interpretation of the timeline? nittanynephew is convinced (and concerned) that what the bible says doesn't leave time for the dinosaurs to have been here. But being the dinophile that he is, he pulls out his dino texts and proceeds to show us all the timelines, etc., there. I'm waiting for the phone call telling me that he raised his hand during Mass to ask the question because he just isn't listening to his parents and family... ;)

that's awesome
he'll resolve it somehow

http://www.drdino.com

This guy is pretty interesting. I showed his tapes to my class when I taught 7-8 grade at a Christian school. I don't know that I totally agree, but he brings some really good information to light, and also it lead to really great conversations with my class.

Thanks for the link, summer! I will pass that on. I'm not sure if any of it will convince my nephew, but it may provide some more talking points for his parents. The kid makes good arguments, I gotta tell ya. Impressive for 7.

You can choose to interpret the Bible literally and view it as 100% inerrant, and reject modern science as a great conspiracy against God, or you can interpret the Bible symbolically, learning from the lessons and viewing it as a historical document, taking into account what people knew when it was written. A literal interpretation of the Bible says that the world is only 4,000 years old, so yeah, your choice.

ETA: By your mention of "mass" I am assuming that nittanynephew is Catholic. I am pretty sure Pope John Paul II accepted evolution.

I sure hope not.

He's already developing his critical thinking skills. :)

I see a great career in his future if you all continue to nurture his desire to learn and ask questions. :D

For me, it's pretty simple - it's the same explanation for why there are two completely different stories laid out in Genesis.

It's a story meant to teach a point, it's not a historical account. The important things are the lessons included, not the timeline.

This has the added benefit of "forcing" (perhaps allowing) him to root out the main points of the story for himself, or to ask the questions that will lead him there - this is very good for his critical thinking skills, and also reinforces the lessons if you're into that sort of thing.

Nittanyalum, has nittanynephew asked yet how there could be an evening and a morning before the creation of the sun? :D

I agree with KSig RC completely. As one minister once taught me, the first question you should ask when reading a passage of Scripture is "what does this teach me about God?" The last question you should ask is "what does this teach me about God?" Everything in between, if it matters at all, is secondary.

Applying this test to the first chapters of Genesis, I am taught that God created the world and everything in it, and then declared it "good." The exact timeline recedes into metaphor and symbol for understanding, among other things, the Sabbath and countering other creation stories.

You can also tell nittanynephew that the idea of not taking Genesis literally is really quite old and established. St. Augustine said that the days of creation should not be understood as literal solar days and even went to so far as to say that they were more allegory or metaphor, phrased in a way that humans could understand. As I recall, he even said that we should be prepared to modify our understandings of the Genesis stories as new information comes to light.

Or you have this from Origen:

Now who is there, pray, possessed of understanding, that will regard the statement as appropriate, that the first day, and the second, and the third, in which also both evening and morning are mentioned, existed without sun, and moon, and stars— the first day even without a sky? And who is found so ignorant as to suppose that God, as if He had been a husbandman, planted trees in paradise, in Eden towards the east, and a tree of life in it, i.e., a visible and palpable tree of wood, so that anyone eating of it with bodily teeth should obtain life, and, eating again of another tree, should come to the knowledge of good and evil? No one, I think, can doubt that the statement that God walked in the afternoon in paradise, and that Adam lay hid under a tree, is related figuratively in Scripture, that some mystical meaning may be indicated by it. (De Principiis IV, 16)

BTW, MysticCat Jr asked the same question.

Dont think God was sloppy, but maybe the bible was a little dramatic?

Now, I guess the question would be how long was a day in Gods life?:D

We were always told that the "Days of Our Lives" are less than a second in God's time.

Yeah, ours are more like sands in the hourglass. ;)

Sweeeeeeet! :)

Hope this helps!
 

There are a number of places where it appears that dinosaurs or other similar creatures are mentioned in the scriptures. Remember that the Bible was translated into English long before the word "dinosaur" was coined. However, the word "dragon" appears 21 times in the Old Testament alone. "You shall tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shall you trample under feet" (Psalm 91:13). From the context it is clearly speaking about a real creature that it would be impressive and intimidating to step on! Jeremiah 51:34 tells, "he has swallowed me up like a dragon..." which brings to mind the way many carnivorous reptiles swallow their prey whole. Both dragons of the sea (Psalm 74:13) and field (Isaiah 43:20) are mentioned. Indeed, Genesis 1:21 can best be translated: "And God created great sea monsters..." One such sea monster became sufficiently well-known to the ancients to be given the special name "Rahab" (Isaiah 51:9). The prophet Ezekiel likens Pharaoh to a sea monster that invaded the Nile river and stirred up the mud (32:2). The Hebrew word, "Tannin," is from the root meaning "to extend." The language conjures up an image of a long-necked plesiosaur-like creature paddling up the river and stirring up mud from the Nile delta with its flippers. Just such a creature is depicted by the ancient Egyptians who may have netted one just as Ezekiel describes in verse 3. From http://genesispark.com/genpark/bible/bible.htm

These two sites might also help you out:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/Docs/2.asp

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml

And if nittanynephew needs a "hands-on" experience, Dinosaur Adventure Land, where dinosaurs and the Bible meet, might be just the place to go on summer vacation.

From their Web site:
Dinosaur Adventure Land is a theme park and science museum that gives God the glory for His creation. It has rides and fun-filled events and activities, each involving a physical challenge, a science lesson, and a biblical truth.

Learn about dinosaurs, principles of science, and even how to make a paper airplane that can fly over 300 feet! Handle our real, live creatures and take the Leap of Faith swing. Enjoyable and educational for all ages, it is specifically targeted for kids under a million years of age!

Be prepared to be challenged to think and to follow the Lord in the way God the Creator has planned for you. If you do not know your Creator, we will be overjoyed to introduce you to Him.

Our funny and experienced guides will lead your family or group on the tour, declaring the works of the Lord and the words of the Lord.

DAL is not an amusement park, for “amuse” means “to not think,” and we want people to think. Rather, it is an amazement park. Come and stand amazed at the truths of the Creator and Savior of the world, Jesus Christ.

In theory, years (and therefore days) are milliseconds shorter than the previous, so who knows how long the day was back then?

Or, you can look at it and say, there are seven distinct geological eras, and G*d created the world in 7 days....

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:Show me an article in a peer-reviewed scientific journal that claims dinosaurs and humans were contemporaries. Those websites are laughable.

the bones of a JEEEEEEEESUS-saurus Rex

i watch too much family guy.

Weird. I have a friend who discussed this exact topic with a co-worker the other day. Are you from Tennessee?

I just discussed this with my co-workers. In Tennessee.... Do you know Karin? Jason? Gary? :)

I was thinking "weird" too since we just had a lengthy discussion about it at work. Looked at the creation museum website and everything. We were looking for the Scriptural reference to a day being a thousand years to God. (2 Peter 3:8 - But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.)

Well, I'm amazed and amused.

If only the effort that goes into trying to battle evolution and push "Creation Science" could go into feeding the hungry, healing the sick, clothing the naked . . . .

nittanyalum, there's a great book I recommend for your nephew to read. It's called "The Book of Life." It's a great book. I'm not sure if it will explain everything to him, but I'm sure it will help.

Also, tell him Dinosaurs and humans didn't coexist, as far as we know. It's all based on fossil findings and the age of rocks that help determine time periods.

I really don't think anyone knows a real answer to this question, because the Bible also says Cain got married to a woman in another city I think. My question is where did she come from? The Bible doesn't explain it.

The origins of life go all the way back to the "Big Bang Theory", which I no longer believe. How do scientists know this, if life didn't even exist then?

Good luck to your nephew. I hope he finds his answer.:)

LOL. C.O.S.I.G.N.!!!!!!!!

What great responses, reading these was like reading the emails between my family members and sitting around the living room (with nittanynephew lecturing from his dino books :)). You should see the look on my Dad's face (who went to schools that were taught by Jesuits) listening to this little guy challenging scripture (and doing it well). It's classic.

I think all of the grown-ups are able to grasp the difference between taking Genesis literally and figuratively, but the challenge my brother and his wife are facing is a very smart 7-year-old, to whom nuances are not yet understandable. He just knows that the bible says one thing and his dino books say another. Things are black and white in his little 7-year-old mind, so treading the line of teaching him the shades of gray without undermining what they're trying to teach him about religion is what's keeping them on their toes.

And personally, I love it. This kid is one of my favorite people in the world and I egg him on all I can. Because then I get to go home (and hear the echoes of "but why, Daddy?" as I drive away :)).


ETA: thanks for the book suggestion, cheerful, I'll look it up & pass it along to my brother

I just saw a Direct car insurance commercial that had 2 cavemen being chased by a dinosaur. The announcer said "cavemen didn't have cars...."

That counts.

^^^LOL

This came up when I was going through the Catholic adult conversion classes (RCIA). The priest answered it this way ... In the language that Genesis was originally written, the word was Epoch which really means "era" or "time period" not day as it is written in English now.

I know Gina at Enterprise Rent A Car. Know her? Lol

Well, it's an idea. I don't think scientists claim to KNOW this, but it's the best they've come up with given what we know.

haha! Nope. Must've been another Tennessee conversation. Funny coincidences though!

Having an Asperger's kid, for whom literalism is like breathing, I feel you on this. What we found we had to do was compare it to expressions (like Junie B. Jones' "dumb bunny," which doesn't mean you're a real bunny) or other stories that he could understand were not to be taken literally (can't think of one right now, though). He started catching on that way, but age does indeed help.

I really don't think there's a need to find a solution to "time's" beginning.

So wait, we can just start naming shit "Dinosaur Adventure Land" instead of "Creationism Country" or "Biblical Science Camp"? This is actually how it works? Can you IMAGINE how many people walked into that place with no clue what they were getting into? Holy balls, that's hilarious!

Wow - what's next? How about "Pope Paul V's Geocentric Fun Planet"? "Mutus Libre's Gold Rush"? "Doc Douchebag's Big Bloodletting Barn"?

For entertainment purposes alone . . . can we start referring to Dauchau as "National Socialism Fun World" or "Final Adventureland"? What about "Fred Phelps Presents . . . The Apocalyto Party Pit" or "Super Happy Heteroville"?

The misleading-name potential is just off the charts here, really - I could do this all day.

can you come up with a fun name for the FLDS compound in Texas?

As for dinosaurs and the bible, my son's teacher (at a Catholic school) explained it as the "we don't know how long a day lasts for God"- one day could have been one thousand years. I think as they get older they talk more about figurative versus literal interpretations.