Understanding Black Patriotism
 

Understanding Black Patriotism

Thursday, Apr. 24, 2008 By MICHAEL ERIC DYSON

Mainstream America has shown little understanding lately of the patriotism that a lot of black people practice. Black love of country is often far more robust and complicated than the lapel-pin nationalism some citizens swear by. Barack Obama hinted at this when he declared in Montana a few weeks ago, "I love this country not because it's perfect but because we've always been able to move it closer to perfection. Because through revolution and slavery ... generations of Americans have shown their love of country by struggling and sacrificing and risking their lives to bring us that much closer to our founding promise."

That's a far cry from the "My country, right or wrong" credo, which confuses blind boosterism with a more authentic, if sometimes questioning, loyalty. At their best, black folk offer critical patriotism, an exacting devotion that carries on a lover's quarrel with America while they shed blood in its defense.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...734809,00.html


*applause*

I whole-heartedly agree with this. :)

*Applause*

Just important to add, Black people are not the only ones with this view.:)

*applause*

I remember last week on Michael Baisden's radio show when an analyst said "when blacks express harsh but honest views on America, they are called angry, ungrateful, and unpatriotic" but "when nonblacks express harsh but honest views on America, they are called critical and reflective."

I had forgotten to post the link. I edited my OP.

Although I'm not a fan, I think this is reasonable. I do have a some concerns about this line of reasoning (not really race related), however.

The idea that "lapel-pin" patriotism is somehow less "robust" is concerning. Plenty of us are outwardly proud to be a part of this country, and yet are still willing to subject our nation to scrutiny. While I suspect Dyson probably intended that comment to refer narrowly to the "blind" support he mentions later, I think it is somewhat reflective of an elitist condescension concerning traditional displays of patriotism. It is one thing to think "These colors don't run!!!!" shirts at a NASCAR race are somewhat humorous, and another to cringe every time someone expresses a more affirmative expression of love for this country (one that isn't necessarily tinged with criticism). I hope this doesn't pertain to Dyson, but I know for certain in describes a significant portion of liberal academia.

Regarding Obama, I find his view of this country somewhat disconcerting. I certainly have no quarrel with his assertion about America's perfection. That said, his focus on "progress" is troubling for people who believe that "progressive" policies are anything but. I'm not necessarily saying this is unpatriotic, because I have little doubt that his desire for change results from his affection for America. But if your love for America is arguably contingent upon a vision of "progress" that many find dangerous, we may soon find a country of adverse patriots.

Sorry if this has gone too far off topic for the thread starter. I just had to bring in a couple of other things to really convey how I felt about this sentiment.

A fan of what or who?

Well of a lot of things, but I was referring to Dyson.

Hmmm...I get the point trying to be made, but I think it could be made better.

I find the "flag-lapel" stereotype to far exceed "my country right or wrong". In my opinion, that stereotype is actually more along the lines of "my country ALWAYS right". As someone who has been accused of "hating America" for suggesting that we're not a perfect nation and that there are a lot of problems, I think there's a very, very big difference between the two, and we've seen a very big increase in the "always right" crowd.. It's interesting to think about the "questioning loyalty" line though.

Is believing that the government spread the AIDS virus to kill of blacks patriotic?

Maybe, maybe not

I don't think that view is limited to non-whites. The Dixie Chicks got pretty slammed for speaking out against our President. The greatest thing about the U.S. is that we are supposed to be allowed to express when we don't agree with what our government officials are doing.

i agree.

The same rights extend to those who disagree with those who disagree.

Dyson has to say something out there to still be invited on Politically Incorrect...

At any rate, if I understand the OP link, Dyson is saying how Blacks can be patriotic or not. Or rather why should they be? I mean you can drive up in to the most gang infested hoods and you might be hard pressed to find too many folks flying the US flag... They just don't fly flags in the hood, G... However, in SOME neighborhoods, like where I grew up, you would probably find flag waving Black folks because they actually do serve, high up in the military... But that is the ONLY location I have actively seen Black folks flying anything other than a "bird"...

Should I, someone who says they are Black, LOVE all that America is and of and show my patriotism now? I have experienced racism at the hands of the government directly, so it is hard for me to be patriotic and proud of my country when I have been treated unfairly. But, I have had opportunities that would not have happened if I lived anywhere else. So basically, I view July 4th as a nice BBQ/Fireworks holiday spending all my dead presidents on with my family, et al.

Another great thing is the ability to boycott a Dixie Chicks album because you disagree with them going to a foreign country and voicing disapproval with our president.

They got slammed because of 1) the timing of their comments as 9-11 and the war were relatively fresh and 2) the political alignment of their fan base who felt they were being saturated with liberalism and anti-American sentiments.

Of course this view isn't limited to nonwhites. However, the reason why understanding black patriotism is an issue is because of the belief that whites can express certain viewpoints and, in most but not all contexts, be called critical and reflective whereas blacks are called ungrateful (Pat Buchanan said it best :p) and unpatriotic. This is why the Black Church and other pillars of the black community have been a political, economic, and social strong force. This is why Jeremiah Wright, for example, was able to expouse certain viewpoints behind the pulpit, although not every Black pastor chooses to use the pulpit in that manner. But using it as such is common place and Wright's recent and old comments wouldn't have been a topic of much discussion if it had not been for his relationship with Obama.

...you did say "arguably," so I'll ask you to expound -- how do you arrive at the conclusion that Obama's love of country is somehow "contingent" on progress? It seems to me that Obama's thesis has been that despite its halting dance with race relations, he yet finds the nation enobling, becuase it's given him the advantage and opportunity he enjoys today.

...also, as to your "contingency" argument, if this were the case, are you suggesting that would somehow be wrong, or "less than" any other expression of love of country?

You know in some places...you would be accused of having a 'chip' on your shoulder...or being an 'angry black woman."

Yeah, I was feelin' this.

Yes, you piss me off all the time! :D :p :rolleyes:

I am looking for that full quote, please let me know if you find it.

I don't even know the name of the man who said it and I probably added a descriptive. I think the only way to find it would be to listen to the entire links to the show from Baisden's site.

I try....;)

Dr Michael Eric Dyson

I didn't even know he was a guest on the show that day because I caught it mid-discussion. Thanks.

Hey sorry I didn't get around to this until now.

Your assessment of Obama may be exactly correct. I don't really arrive at any conclusions, I have no idea what Barack's motivations are or how sincere his affection is.

But, I think it is reasonably valid for people to wonder about his love for this country when he's so focused on progressive politics. Actually, this is true for any far left "progressive," not just Obama. I think we all look at America, or should, and see things that could make the country better. But if you're someone who possesses arguably-radical ideas about what America should be, and most of your expressions of affection refer to that, people who love America the way it is may question that.

Ideally we'd all look at slavery or racial discrimination and recognize that shifting away from these things, or at least making strides in the latter, are good changes that have made America better. But is infringing on the free market good? That is a lot more disputable. Both sides are presumably patriotic, they just love America for different reasons. So yeah, I think it is reasonable for someone to say "well, do you love America now, or do you just love the progress we've made and what you think it'll be like after?" I wouldn't say that is my view of Obama, but people who are staunchly opposed to his vision of America are likely to ask such questions.

Lets say he does only really love what America could be, is that less patriotic? I dunno, patriotism is something I have trouble wrapping my brain around. I certainly would adamantly disagree with him, but there are plenty of patriots who I think would destroy America. Personally I'm not really concerned about his patriotism, it is much too broad a concept. I don't really care if he loves his country if i think his vision of that country is fundamentally opposed to mine.

It see that many do not know history?

Blacks fought on both sides of the Civil War.
Blacks became known as buffalo soldiers as the protected the West duiring the Indian Wars.

Harrys S Truman edicted that Blacks in WWII were able to finght and have equal rights in the Military.

The Tuskagee Air Men were one of the most highly decorated fighting squardrons in WWII.

A lot of people know this but it doesn't change this discussion.