.

Well in the whole "greek unity" spirit of things, obviously, you'd be the bigger guys to suck it up and let them come up. But a whole weekend might feel very long, I get that, I have inlaws that get about a 24-hour window here... So maybe you find some reason they can only come up Friday night and have to be gone by like 3 on Saturday or something, that way, you seem generous and cool, they get to come up and ooh and ahh about how amazing your house is (and you know you guys will love all the ego boosting ;)), they'll feel cool because they're visiting a "cool" house, but you really only have to deal with them for about 20 hours and too much damage can't be done in that time period (I would hope... ;)).

Just out of curiosity...may I ask what makes them "different"?

Their chapter is a lower tier at the other school.

Let them come and try to show them how they SHOULD be.

Unbelievable.

Invite them over. They might be so disgusted by the arrogance and lack of true brotherhood that they'll leave early and never want to "bother" you guys again. Problem solved.

We've had these types before.

Absolute trash. Created alot of problems. Acting like assholes is the appropriate way to go about it, so chapters like them will hear about it and stay away.

When chapters come up for games they can be fun though. They're usually our sorts of people and we have a blast tailgating.

O RLY?

How exactly do you determine that they have a "lack of true brotherhood?"

Are random people suppose to be our "brothers" when we had never met them before and went through a vastly different fraternity experience as our own? Are we realy brothers? Are we really expected to treat them as such?

I know the Sigma Pi fraternity on our campus hangs out with chapters all across the state. They will go in large groups to other chapter's houses for the night or the weekend and they will also get other brothers that come up and visit them as well.

As far as I'm concerned it's one weekend. Unless you are worried that for some reason their behavior may get the cops involved our jepoardize your chapter's charter (ie. partying habits)... What's the hurt in hanging out with them? Are you worried that your girlfriends will like them better than you?

I've visited other AST chapters and it was loads of fun! If an AST came around here, I'd love to have her stop in and hang out.

Maybe it'll be fun!

If you don't want them to come, you can always say that they can come hang out for a weekend but you don't have anywhere for them to stay. That usually deters people.

There's something about large groups that make people go crazy and forget their manners. On football game weekends we used to invite members of the opposing campus' chapter to stay at our house. We had one too many instances of them running amok and trashing the place. We even had a few instances of some bringing alcohol into our house which is both a violation of University policy and our Inatl.

This is our home people! The house is open to alums, parents and other guests on game days. It was embarrassing! We now invite them over for our pregame meal, but they need to find other places to stay. I feel bad it came to this, but even giving out house guidelines beforehand didn't stop the problem.

You've never had relatives (blood relatives), or really even old friends, that you didn't really want in your residence before? You're lucky. I don't know why SD doesn't want these particular guys visiting, but there are plenty of valid reasons for concern that I can think of off the top of my head ...

Usually, I feel bad when people want a place to stay and will let them --- if they turn out not to do whatever it was I was afraid of, then okay. If not, I find an excuse and get them out quick. I'm not jeapardizing my lease, my furniture, my reputation with my neighbors, my cat's life, or whatever the case may be ... And yes, I do think that all of this is relevant to SD's situation, even though I am talking about my own personal residence versus a fraternity house.

When my chapter had a house, we had several neighboring chapters that would regularly visit. My chapter makeup was/is different from many of the other chapters, but that always made the visits more interesting.

As far as staying for a weekend -- that's a little bit much. Staying for the day is never an issue, but anything longer than that does tend to get a little bit awkward. Most of our brothers that needed to be in the area for longer than a day would either stay at a hotel or at individual brothers' homes.

Since it's the first time, you don't know if you won't like each other. This could be the beginning of a great relationship. They obviously think your chapter is cool enough to visit. Maybe your chapter can go visit them some time? You never know unless you try.

If they come, one would hope they have respect for their fellow members.

I know of a Chapter that visited a house and items were stolen.

It does not take long for the word to get out and they are never invited back again.

There used to be a lot of visitations going on and I do not know if it still does, but it is good to meet and greet fellow members. Well, unless they are asses and should be told to leave and the word put out.

Loads of dumb here.

This statement is so ridiculous I won't even waste the time to address it.

Okay, point taken.

Yes, they are supposed to be your brothers if they're members of the same fraternity. I guess this is just very surprising because I've never heard of this kind of attitude in the NPC. If you don't want to associate with what you call "random" people then why did any of you guys join national/international organizations?

All SD said was that they are "VERY different" which could mean just about anything. If he had said that this other chapter is full of jerks who are just going to trash the house then it's a completely different discussion.

give them the benefit of the doubt. who knows, you guys may end up liking each other. My chapter is really close with our surrounding chapters and while we are very different, it is always a blast to see them. they treat us like brothers from the same chapter and we do the same for them.

if you have them over and it doesnt work out, at least you know for next time.

I've never had an issue with any chapter I've visted (and I've been to chapters all over the country). However, my brothers and I always treated the chapter with respect and never took advantage of their hospitality.

We've had other chapters visit our house and most were great. There were a few that acted like fools. They never got an invite back.

My allegiance is to my chapter......you know, the 100+ guys that I have spent every day with for the past 4.5 years. Members of my chapter were chosen for specific reasons. We share the same interests. We generally like the same things. Just because I joined a national organization does not mean that I have to hold some random SAE from South Dakota in the same esteem I do my very best friends. Yes, he is my "brother" in recognition, nothing more, nothing less. I will respect him just as I would anyone in everyday life...........that does not mean that I have to invite him into my fraternity house and treat him as a full blown member of my chapter just because we know the same rituals and can give each other a cool handshake.

I see both Leslie Anne and SEC Domination's points...they are understandable but, I have to admit-I'm confused..just a little....

This isn't the first time I have heard this from a fraternity member. In fact, at Penn State there was a group of Pi Kappa Alphas from Ohio State (I think it was) that came to party with the Pikes at PSU. Well, a fight started between the fraternity men (of the same GLO) but, not the same chapter. It was even on YouTube for a while.

I then began to question one of my friends who is a member of a national fraternity why men would do this. I stated that during the Orange Bowl when Penn State and Florida State played each other-had I gotten tickets to the game I would have hoped the FSU sisters would have accepted me-and I can say that I'm pretty certain they would (and vice versa)....

My friend began to talk about how even though he is a member of XYZ at Penn State-he does not have the same allegiance to the member of XYZ at Florida State, Ohio State, etc. I was a bit confused because as AST said earlier-I think it's great to meet sisters from all over-even rival schools....

So, although I understand like DST was saying about blood relatives coming to your home you don't want over (because I have a cousin my boyfriend and I won't tell her where we live for that reason alone) I am confused as to why these men took the same pledge/ oath as you and yet they don't constitue as "brothers"...I'm not complaining or trying to make anyone look bad-I'm just asking....why does it seem different for members of the NPC than it does all the fraternity men?

SEC, does your chapter have a website?

I know of an Alpha Chapter of an NPHC organization that had to deal with surprise visiting members so much that they wrote a policy and placed it on the website. I can't recall the exact wording but it was something like "We welcome you to visit with us, but we regret that we cannot house visitors with less than two weeks' notice." and/or "Please contact us prior to your visit so that we will know members are in the area."

Unbelievable. EW, your fraternity is way bigger than your old-money-obsessed farce of brotherhood.

I have no doubt that there are Sigma Kappas and Sigma Kappa chapters who are very different from my chapter and me, but I would treat every one of my sisters that I am lucky enough to meet with the utmost respect.

Back to the original topic, if your chapter were having any guests (that wanted to stay in the house), of course you'd want a decent amount of notice. The only exception I could think of is that if a bunch from another chapter just wanted to see the house, then they shouldn't really have to give much if any notice.

I'm not sure what kind of "different" you are talking about, whether it's just that this chapter is "low tier"/not Southern or if you anticipate these guys will trash your house/cause some sort of risk management issue. If it's the former, they're your brothers, and you really ought to be a gracious host because there is no good reason you shouldn't. If it's the latter, offer them a tour of the house, and maybe go somewhere else with them (i.e. don't drink in the house, don't offer to let them stay overnight in the house) but be polite.

ETA: Now I see what kind of "different" you are referring to. If you are so different, why do they want to hang out with your chapter?

What an irrational, complete bullshit, unfounded statement. Are you kidding me? Total garbage. Pretty big talk from someone who, I'm pretty sure, has absolutely no clue who the guy is. I am sure that EW, like myself, has a very strong sense of brotherhood towards his own chapter. I am sure that his bonds with his pledge brothers and the guys who led him through pledgeship are as strong as any of ours.

You have absolutely no right to question his sense of brotherhood because he, like many of us, doesn't consider their ties to hundreds of thousands of men whom we will never know, meet, or see as strong as the individuals whom we have built friendships and bonds with that will last for the rest of our lives.

Like I said, I observe the fact that men from outside chapters are my "brothers" in the fact that we share the same rituals, oaths, etc. to our fraternity. That doesn't mean I have to treat everyone of them like my immediate family.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself. "Farce of brotherhood"........give me a f**king break.

That's great. At what point did he or any of us say that we wouldn't treat people with respect? I said it multiple times. There is a huge difference between being respectful and courteous to someone and treating them like they've been in your life everyday since you've been in college.

Yes they should. We don't know these people. They could walk in side and shoot someone for all I know.

How is he supposed to know answer this? Probably because they are in the same fraternity and know that they can't go to any other houses? I mean, is that not right?

Slight hi-jack

I'm curious about this statement. Pretty much every Greek I've encountered IRL recognizes both chapter and national brothers/sisters as more than just "the people who know the same oath as me." Only on GC have I found people pledging their allegiance to the chapter (as opposed to the national organization). Of course, it's obvious that you'd be closer to your chapter members, but I can't imagine treating other brothers differently from chapter brothers.

Is this a common mentality? And why join a national organization if you didn't want the "national brotherhood?"

(Please don't take this as an attack -- just curious about this. Not saying one way is wrong or right, just different)

/hi-jack

Wrong. Absolutely wrong. My fraternity is my chapter. Just because they have participated in the same ritual I have and worn similar dress during closed meetings does not instantly make them my brother. That makes them a member of a large association of men. Participating in pledgeship and often five to six years of living together, and everything that we've experienced together make them friends.

You know absolutely nothing about my "brotherhood". To make some sort of accusation is the farce. You accuse my brotherhood regarding people I have never known before.

That's fine. I am always respectful to any other member of the association I meet until they give me a reason not to.

I doubt he knows why. Some just want to party. Some like seeing other houses and visiting other fraternities. Most are annoying.

Sorry, I just can't fathom how a group of men could understand what it means to be brothers in a national fraternity when a basis for membership is the amount of money a potential member is perceived to have. I interpreted EW's comment as him thinking his chapter was superior to other chapters of his fraternity.

Of course you'll be closer with members of your chapter +/- 3 years from you, but again, I interpreted EW as thinking his chapter is superior to the (inter)national fraternity or that his loyalty is only to his chapter and not his (inter)national fraternity.

Ok, I suppose this COULD happen, but whether they just walked in or gave you a month's notice wouldn't really matter if that were an individual/group's intent? I wouldn't lose sleep over worrying that my sisters from another chapter would come to my house and shoot sisters from my chapter.

Just asking for him to speculate if he has any ideas. If the other chapter comes back, they must find something they enjoy about hanging out with SEC's chapter.

I rest my case.

Can you point me in the direction of where ElephantWalk made any kind of statement that comes even remotely within the realm of what you just said? I haven't seen it.

Your interpretation was wrong. I'm sorry. I don't really even care if it's an opinion....it just isn't right.


I didn't gather that from his statements. What I gathered from it was that he is pretty cautious towards complete strangers who happen to be in his same fraternity that come by his house and visit. Obviously he has had some experience with some out of town members who acted like complete, classless trash.

I'm pretty sure he stated plain as day that he has had visiting members at his house during game days.......and had an absolute blast. But I guess that really means he hated them all and didn't think they were good enough for him and his chapter brothers because they don't have as much money as all of them.

That's your prerogative. I, on the other hand, feel a responsibility towards my chapter to observe some discretion when dealing with a group of, once again, complete strangers.

That would make sense.

I'm searching for this "case" you speak of. So far all I've seen you do is trash a man's sense of brotherhood.

I'm not sure what else I am supposed to view them as? Yes, they are in my fraternity. They took the same oaths, went through the same rituals....many went through pledgeship and came out unscathed......and I commend them for that. I will treat them all with the same respect and courtesy I would anyone, unless they act in a manner that doesn't deserve it. But as far as viewing them in the same light as guys who I am personally involved with every day, guys who know my family, have been to relatives funerals, have keys to my home, go on trips with us.....I'm sorry.....I can't open my life up to a guy whom I don't know at the drop of a hat and treat them like I've known them for a long period of time.

That is what I think of when I read "treating them differently". It's not like I'm going to treat them as less of a person because they aren't a member of my chapter, haha.

I think it's very common.

I've never said I don't observe a "national brotherhood" with guys from all over the country. It's just much stronger towards the guys in my chapter. I think that is perfectly reasonable.

Also, I'm not taking it as an attack. I am just shocked at some of the ludicrous statements that have been made......insulting and demeaning statements.

Reading a response from someone in which she claims a "farce" of brotherhood and attacks a man's chapter with the preconceived notion that he and his brothers wouldn't accept individuals from other schools because they are not "old money" and may have less personal wealth is insulting.....and it's rude.

^^^ Got it. Thanks.

Oh, and to clarify, in my "why join a national..." comment, I meant the general you (not you specifically). But thanks again for responding. I learn something new on GC every day :)

No problem. I appreciate you being civil and levelheaded in your responses.

read: nice and understanding.

Its only one weekend. They come they go, you don't deal with them again for awhile. Thats how my chapter looked at it with others chapters we didn't like. We were hospitable while they were here. If they act like jackasses and you notice it during their stay, tell them to knock the crap off. Worst case you have to tell them they won't be back. If there's a sober one and they keep it up, tell them they have to go. If you find out after the fact, you are more then justified in telling them they are not welcomed until further ntoice. A plus is they're letting you know. We had chapters just drop in before.



Wow is all I can say. Why don't you ask your nationals those questions and see what they say??? They would be hugely dissapointed that you have to even ask. You just truly don't get brotherhood (at least on a national level).

I have to ask - since you seem to feel this way about those who are members of your fraternity but not in your chapter, do you feel the same way toward your founders?

Your founders did not participate in your pledgeship. Your founders did not live with you for five or six years.

What does that make them?

We've gotten into this before about my (and a few other guys on the board) opinions on nationals. Nationals are only worth it for the insurance. If we could figure out how to make it just as cheap, we would likely break away. Nationals is a waste of space otherwise. Nothing further needs to be said because it's off topic.

In my opinion, that makes them the founders of the organization.

They have great ideals which lay the foundation, but they're not my brothers in any sense that the guys in my chapter are.

I really don't understand the love-affair between Greek-Chat and the national organization.

And without your founders, you would not have your chapter.

QED

Sorry to hear you needed to go to a funeral, SEC, they're never easy, but they're extra tough around holidays. And I hope you get back and find your house still standing; I didn't realize it was this weekend they wanted to visit, it does seem odd they'd pick Easter weekend... it was nice of your chapter to let them stay.

I think it's a perfect question to ask nationals. I'd love to know their thoughts on how you should view the thousands of members of your organization whom you don't know from Adam. I'd be willing to be they would utter many of the same things that we have said here.........that you should treat them with kindness, courtesy, and respect. You should observe the fact that all of us share the same rituals and oaths that we took upon becoming members of our organization.

I doubt very seriously that they would be "disappointed" in the fact that some of us actually view brotherhood as something that you have to create between the men that you are around all of the time. That you have to work towards it to achieve it. You talk of brotherhood like it's just suddenly bestowed upon all of us at the same time once we become members of our organizations. It has taken years to create the bonds that I have made with my pledge/fraternity brothers. Sorry if it shocks and irritates you that we hold those bonds very dearly and aren't willing to just garner some random XYZ fraternity member with the same amount of deep closeness that we share with the members of our separate chapters. Members from other chapters have my respect and admiration for choosing to join our organization. They will all enjoy the common courtesy that I have been taught to treat all people with. Until we meet and get to know each other, that's what they are getting. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Please though, enlighten me on how to "get" brotherhood.

My founders died around 140 years ago too. Not especially relevant.

I view them as just that, founders of one of the top fraternal organizations in the country. Their ideas, loyalty, admiration, and devotion to creating an organization for us to be a part of will always be recognized and deeply respected by me. Do I view them as the same light as my best friends in my chapter........no. How is that even possible?