dating a sweetheart and I'm NOT a greek
 

So I'm involved with this girl who is an iota sweetheart..I'm not a greek and right now not sure if I'm going to go greek..I heard of the other glo sweetheart things like Sigma Doves, Kappa Diamonds or Omega Pearls. My question is are these groupies or what? It already bothers me to an extent that she is so involved with this but I understand how greek life can be for some people...so is it really an organization that does its own thing or just sugercoated groupies?

If you're involved with this woman, why not ask her? :confused:

To his credit.... I'm not sure if I would outright ask my woman if she was a groupie.

I would ask her "Who are you and what have you done with Lenny Kravtiz?!?!!"

But then....I would just sit back and observe how she interacts among the Iotas. If she looks like a train has been run on her, then it probably has. If you are super nice to the Ioters and they treat you like shizzat, then they prolly don't respect you because your girl is the set-out chick.

I agree with Sensuret....

while it isnt exactly PC to just flat out ask if she's a groupie, you can still find out the answer to your own question by observation. How does she interact with the Iotas? Do you find that she does things for them that dont seem to follow with her purpose of being a sweetheart, etc etc. Every org has a reputation and that reputation varies from place to place. And just because sweethearts might be one way at one school doesnt mean that everyone is like that. Use your better judgement and if it becomes to much for you to handle, make a decision on what to do.

I didn't mean that the OP should ask "Hey girl, are you a groupie?" and hope to get away with it, haha. Questions like "What types of activities do you do with Iotas?" or "What do you like most about being an Iota Sweetheart?" would be easy enough to ask. And, as you stated, observation works too.

I actually have respect for the Iota Sweethearts. They are the only sweethearts I have met that show mad respect to the NPHC sororities and don't try be something they're not. I also respect them because they are a legitimate group (not a greek organization) and their legacy is respected and recognized nationally by Iota Phi Theta. If you go to their website, you'll find some information about how the first Iota sweetheart helped in getting their org established. The other groups you mentioned are not recognized or encouraged by the organizations.

If your girlfriend is following in the legacy of the Iota Sweethearts and is really helping the Iotas serve the community and administer programs, I don't see any problem with this. Many also use the Iota Sweetheart experience as a stepping stone to joining a sorority and I have found that this is something many of the Iotas encourage them to do.

if a sweetheart is selected appropriately then she is not a groupie at all.
the sweetheart of sigma chi is another one that is internationally recognized, and held up to incredible standards as an ambassador for our fraternity. To be a sweetheart of sigma chi you've gotta be not just another pretty face, but a true friend to the chapter, someone everyone knows, can count on for support, and feel comfortable hanging out with- and on top of that the sweetheart has to present the ideals we look for in our own brothers.
If your girlfriend is a sweetheart all you should take from that is that she has the respect, loyalty, and probably protection (at all those crazy frat parties ;) ) of a whole ton of guys. And what's not to like about that.

There goes that crazy universalism versus cultural relativism thing again.

I know a Soror who is an Iota Sweetheart. Great ladies and their relationship with the Iotas was extremely respectful on both sides.

But that was that chapter and those particular men and women. It was also 10 years ago. I have no idea how things are elsewhere and now. There aren't that many Iotas so such a 10 minute study wouldn't be hard to conduct. Just kidding. I love Iotas---Hi, Starang21. :o

Hello, post #1. How are you?

I loooooooove Sigma Chis, too.

Oh and this is a similar yet different kind of "sweetheart" that we're talking about here.

i'ma be the real one...yeah she's a groupie, well chances are, she probably is...lol!!! and i'm dead serious too. i understood the point back in like the 50s, 60s, & 70s...but now, nah. hell my chapter bros that crossed in the 80s tell me stories bout sweethearts, so it already confirmed what i thought. now granted, not everyone who is a sweetheart is a groupie, but a good majority of them are. why be an illegitimate part of an org, when they're not recognized by the NPHC? and yes, iota sweethearts are NOT recognized by the nphc, ya'll forget we got a ban on auxillary groups. Iotas just chose to ignore that since its in their constitution already when they joined the nphc. them chicks might as well pledge a sorority that is mostly associated with said org(not sayin i condone that, but hell ya'll know thats why some chicks joined ya'll orgs)...but thats just my $19.14 on this...

...still waiting...... ;)

Jokes about sweethearts aside, it just isn't true that every sweetheart or sweetheart "chapter" is of groupie status. Even back in the 50s and 60s there were sweethearts who were considered groupies and subervient. Meanwhile other chapters' experiences with their sweethearts were different.

NPHC doesn't have to recognize them. They are recognized by the Iotas on a national level. Even though our orgs are part of the NPHC, we do function as separate entities with some different practices ya know.

I appreciate you for saying this.

I think many people are confused about what "umbrella organization" means for us.

Our sweetheart has never hooked up with any of us, shes just good friends with a lot of the guys. Shouldn't you ask her this instead of us, we obviously have no idea about her particular situation. If you're the jealous type then DON'T date a sweetheart because she is going to have to do a lot of things with the fraternity, including date functions.

Just curious, if your sweetheart is not dating a member and she is invitedto a date function, can she bring any date that she wants? So say your sweetheart starts dating a guy in another fraternity, is he able to go to your date parties?

thanks for clearing this up..2 answer the #3 post..they do respect me..and as a matter of fact my girl says its a possible that I can get a bid...ohh yeh that particular chapter is pretty wack. so, I really have no insecurities and jealous attitude towards them but even a square can get a groupie

No, she goes with guys who have dates cancel at the last minute. She also finds like five guys dates from her sorority for all of our functions.

ok, who are the 5 guys and why can't they find their own dates?

I dated the Tri Sig sweetheart for a while. I don't think they would have been too jazzed about me coming to a date party, LOL.

troll.

This strikes as a touch of snobbery going on here.

Not all Greeks are the most outgoing and social of people and so don't have as large a pool to draw from.

Or it might be that the guys have asked several girls, but the girls have legitimate reasons for not being able to attend.

It strikes as asking why sweethearts are being used as a dating service.

I would say that with most Sigma Chi chapters, the Sweetheart could bring a date. And I would guess some have. However, I have never known a Sweetheart to do so. Frankly, while some might, I would be surprised if a member of another fraternity would want to attend another fraternity's date party in the first place.

This is the scenario I am most familiar with.

In addition to what others have said, I saw the following situation more than a few times. A brother would be dating someone at another school and their "steady" was unable to attend. The Sweetheart (someone both he *and* his steady trusts) helps him get a date. Someone he might know as a friend and could go to the function and have a good time without any worry about "hooking up". This is much better than him ending up with some random girl that may not have his best interest (much less his girlfriend's) in mind.

Among other reasons, Sweethearts are elected because of their friendship with members of the chapter. As such, most help their friends (chapter members) out of the genuine goodness of their heart. I would hope that a woman would be able to do so (help her friends) and not be viewed as being used or as some sort of a dating service.

Just so you know, the NPHC organizations don't give bids. We do things differently from other GLO's. In this thread you have members of different GLO's posting whose processes are different from the NPHC regarding sweethearts and other things. Like I said in my previous post, Iota Phi Theta is the only org in the NPHC that nationally recognizes their sweethearts. The other orgs in the NPHC no longer recognize or permit these groups.

NPHC Fraternities:

Alpha Phi Alpha
Kappa Alpha Psi
Omega Psi Phi
Phi Beta Sigma
Iota Phi Theta

NPHC Sororities:

Alpha Kappa Alpha
Delta Sigma Theta
Zeta Phi Beta
Sigma Gamma Rho

You're not getting it... If a guy has a steady girlfriend and she can't go to the formal, why the heck would he take someone else? Even if she can't go and is cool with him taking a non-romantic date, what the heck kind of guys is the group taking if there's a chance that he chooses his own date that he'll hook up with her? Why would the Sweetheart choosing make it less likely that he'd hook up with his date? Is she going out of her way to choose ugly or awkward women? Why would a member in a relationship automatically take a "random girl" that "may not have his best interest in mind" if he chooses his own date? That just speaks to the poor taste of YOUR members, not the skills and kindness of the Sweetheart.

Furthermore, I think a lot of us are asking, why is it the Sweetheart's job to get him a date? No offense, but what if your fraternity bids a weirdo or something? Does the Sweetheart have to go with him to every formal then, assuming he can't get a date?

None of the orgs at my school had sweethearts and I'm not much liking the sound of them. It sounds lame... I sure as heck would not want to be sweetheart if I'm going to have to find lame guys dates or something. I know you're actually trying to defend the idea that sweethearts are classy and not groupies but actually your words are making me think that they ARE. But I don't have any experience with it so who knows?

...................

Sometimes people just don't have dates for one reason or another and she wants us to meet as many girls in her sorority as possible to improve relations, they're actually our homecoming partners for next year so its good to meet them now.
Maybe GLOs aren't as big where you're from, they have 150+ girls so its impossible to know them all and when you have 93 guys in your house, occasionally a few of them don't have dates.

Well, part of what I'm wondering is if maybe other chapters don't adhere to the high ideals you say your chapter did.

Um... I don't think the issues I brought up (defense of sweethearts sounding like condemnations of them) had been brought up in this thread before. Like I said, I don't have any personal experience. Thus I must judge them on what other people tell them. The positive things you had to say in defense of sweethearts made them sound incredibly creepy to me. So I judge based on both positive and negative opinions that have been put forward.

You can have a good time without a date. Why would he be so concerned if he looked like a loser? This one isn't really a big deal however. I just wouldn't let my boyfriend take another woman to a formal. But I guess if all parties involved are ok with it, then fine. I still don't see why the sweetheart needs to be involved unless the guy really is a loser.

I notice you didn't address my comments about why having a sweetheart choose the date would make it less likely the guy would hook up with his date and not choose a woman "with bad intentions."

If it's not her job why does everyone keep bringing it up as something a sweetheart does?

My friends like to set one another up in college as well. But they weren't obligated to do so.

YES, I'm sure, TSteven. Please have respect enough for my knowledge of these issues. You're talking to someone who was a chapter president and almost a consultant for her sorority. I knew people in pretty much every fraternity, including Sigma Chi, and I never once heard of any fraternity EVER having a sweetheart. I'm guessing this is partially because W&L only went co-ed in 1985 and they had no tradition of having sweethearts previous to that. I have been to EVERY fraternity at W&L in my day. I know people in all fifteen of them (some of them are gone now though). W&L is a small school. Everyone knows everyone. Heck, I know half the guys in my class's "pledge names" (lame). W&L has 1700 students. They are almost all Greek. It is like a huge, gossipy, high school. Everyone knows everything. I would certainly know if there were formalized sweethearts. The closest anything ever came to that is that the fraternities and sororities all nominate women for Homecoming. But they weren't "sweethearts."

UGH. Please don't suggest I don't know what happens at my own college. I bet a lot of things about W&L and the way W&L men treat women would surprise YOU. It is not happy-happy-fraternity-land.

I've been around on GC a long time and have read a LOT about sweethearts and am only now offering my true opinion about it. I'm glad you like Sigma Chi's program. I'm sure it was founded with high ideals. At the same time, I'm not foolish enough to think that most fraternity chapters strictly follow the ideals of the program. In fact, I would take things I read on GC as probably more indicative of how the program works than things I read on the national website. I must judge on this basis since I don't have any personal experience.

Pi Phi banned the practice of sweethearts ("Arrowmen") in our policies & position statements and I'm certainly glad we did. I'm glad you like your org's policies but to me they seem ridiculous.

And.... the link you posted doesn't seem to be working.

;)

I honestly feel like there are some people who do not get the full scope of it.

There are several different concepts of sweetheart.

They are not all the same to various chapters/groups/ (and obviously by some of the posters' responses) councils who have them. I want to make this point because my big is a past TKE chapter sweetheart and she is not a dating service, cookie baker, resident slut, or any of these other things. She is a nice girl who dated and continues to date the same chapter member, they knew her, they liked her, they respect her, they honored her. She is respectable.

Sometimes it's a matter of picking based on politics (trying to get in favor with XYZ group), sometimes it's something else. The reasons vary, but do NOT ever ASS -Ume that all sweethearts are a bad deal or concept.

I can not address what other chapters may or may not do. I do know that within Sigma Chi, the Sweetheart Program is a time honor tradition.

I apologize for not having gone into more detail. However, if you want, you may do a search and find a few threads regarding sweethearts.

Again, I apologize that I was not clear. The Sweetheart does not need to be involved at all. However, because she is a friend - and wants to - she will help her friend.

I noticed that too. ;) I tried to edit my original post and got caught in a kind of loop that didn't let me edit my reply. So I will now.

You are right. It doesn't make it any less likely. People will hook up if they want to. However, he is more likely to get the desired results from the Sweetheart than say perhaps his brother simply because she might have a larger pool to work with. In other words, she may know more available women.

It is not her "job". Or even her responsibility. It is something that she elects to do on her own because she is friends with the person who is asking her for help. In this case, it is a member of the fraternity.

As it should be. The Sweetheart is a FRIEND. She is under no obligation to set up anyone - ever!

Point taken. While they may not have had it when you were there, they might now. And the election of a chapter Sweetheart may not always be well publicized regardless of the campus. Besides, even if the Zeta Chapter (W&L) of Sigma Chi does not have a chapter Sweetheart, they do have an International Sweetheart.

If you are interested in learning more, and happen to know any fraternity men at Texas, please ask them if they have a chapter Sweetheart. Those who do might be able to give you a better understanding of what they actually do. And not something based on rumor on innuendo.

If you feel a need to judge based on what GC posters have said, then so be it. I hope that if you are truly interested in this, you will research it further and not limit your knowledge to what people post here.

I have know a few men who held the honor of being an Arrowmen. All are (and were) upstanding individuals.

I will try it again. If it still does not work, you might want to try searching "Sigma Chi Sweetheart Program" Once you get to the website, there are direct links to the program.

Sweetheart Program

Well, I only graduated in 2005, so if they have them now, it would be a really recent development. Trust me, EVERYTHING is well-publicized at W&L. Please don't pretend to understand my campus. For example, fraternities' nomination of homecoming candidates was a HUGE deal that all sorority women knew ALL about. I could even tell you which fraternities elected women how (based on people who hung out there, which woman had been dating a senior the longest, which woman they thought was a "sure thing" to win Homecoming even if she didn't hang out there, etc.). A lot of the traditional fraternity & women things weren't done at W&L--for example lavaliering. Guys didn't do that for whatever reason. Again I think it has to do with coeducation coming so late.

This is a good suggestion. I do know quite a few fraternity men at Texas, but since my connections with them are through being their instructor, it's actually not appropriate for me to ask them such questions. It violates TA liability policy.

I am truly interested in this. I HAVE read a lot of threads about this. Remember that I have been here since 2002 and have been reading threads for many years. You don't know what I have and haven't read. It's actually true that at one time I thought having sweethearts seemed cool and thought W&L fraternities should start doing it. On reading more (including from pro-sweetheart people), I began to think it was a VERY bad idea and came to really appreciate Pi Phi's policy banning sweethearts. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm uninformed. I readily admit I don't have direct experience with sweethearts. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on it. I don't have direct experience with taking heroin either, but I can have an opinion on it.

[quoteI have know a few men who held the honor of being an Arrowmen. All are (and were) upstanding individuals.[/quote]

I sure hope this isn't recently.

The link works now. Thanks. But again, official policy does not equal practice.

I apologize if I gave the impression that I pretended to understand your campus. I do not. On the same hand, and not that you have necessarily done so, please do not pretend to understand my fraternity.

You need to do what you need to do. But when I was in graduate school (and granted, I was not a teachers assistant) I was able to talk with other graduate students as well as undergrad students. Some were not ever in my department. I would hope that at a school like Texas you might be able to find at least one person you could speak with and not violate your TA liability policy.

Of course you may have an opinion. Yet because your sorority currently - or you personally - do not like the idea of *fraternity* sweethearts, or have a realistic concept of what they do, does not mean that other sororities or fraternities are not initialed to have one.

Well, yes. The ones I met recently held the honor years back.

You may be right. However, as you pointed out, you are not familiar with the concept of chapter sweethearts. So why say something inflammatory. Hearsay does not make it reality either.

And please, with respect to Sigma Chi Fraternity, if you ever find anything questionable regarding one of our chapter Sweethearts, please send me a PM with the specific details.

Not really. We can't really inquire into people's personal lives at all if we're their instructor. It's extremely inappropriate. Being a graduate instructor at a huge university, there are a ton of policies that would never come up if you were not an instructor. If they bring it up, certainly, but I don't know why they ever would. A Phi Psi in my class brought up that he was a Phi Psi recently and we discussed that. But otherwise I'm very limited in discussing such matters. And basically no one in my program was Greek except a few women. I can't think of any fraternity guys. Well two. But they both graduated.

They're entitled to, certainly. I agree there. They can have them. I'm not so sure they should have them.

I'm only going off what you and others have told me on GC. Are you a dishonest source?

I don't really think anything I've said is inflammatory. Oh well. My participation in this thread is obviously upsetting you so I'll bow out now. I just don't see why I'm entitled to the opinion that sweethearts are a very bizarre institution, just as you are entitled to your opinion that they are an awesome one. Even if I haven't seen them firsthand--which again, I readily admit--doesn't mean I haven't read about them or am not educated about them. And it doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion about them, whether or not you like it.

Ours used to always be a brothers girlfriend until recently, now its more of a tool to get good relations with a certain sorority.

The International Sweetheart of Sigma Chi is an amazing program. The women who become International Sweetheart are beautiful, intelligent, dedicated young ladies.

However, my experience with an individual chapter was less than amazing. I was MARRIED to the president, and given an award by the Grand Consul for my dedication and work, but was told I couldn't be sweetheart because I didn't sleep with the brothers. Hey, I was sleeping with one of them!:rolleyes:

Another example that I mentioned. Here's one more: this year, that same chapter I referenced earlier picked a sorority woman who wasn't dating a brother. She brought her gdi date to the formal (no comment). Allegedly, it was based on politics of some older brothers. That was their choice for this year based on their own need/decision.

Basically my point is that there are various reasons a chapter would nominate and pick a sweetheart for. And even those can vary by year or by person nominated/chosen. Not all sweethearts have that negative stereotypes and people should stop lumping them together just as they would not want outsiders to judge all greeks the same.

Actually, I thought my comments were more of a critique of the fraternity members who select the sweetheart than the sweetheart herself.

If it bothers you that she's involved in this, then you should leave her alone. Use your 1st instinct.

Me personally, I've never been a fan of dating sweethearts. I'm sure some are nice women, but I wouldn't get involved in a relationship with one.

In my chapter of Sigma Chi the Sweatheart is elected by the chapter, the chapter advisors, the house mom, and some are even nominated by her sorority. We elect her based on her service to the community and her sorority, her grades, her character, her ambitions, and her love for the Fraternity. No, she does not have to sleep with any of the brothers or any of that foolishness. No, we do not ask her to find dates for any of the brothers for functions. His big brother or pledge brothers usually will help do that. The Sweatheart is like a sister to most of us and that's why we honor her. The only thing we require her to do is that she holds a position on our Mom's Weekend committee along with the House Mom. Other than that everything that she does is her choice. On a personal level I love having the sweatheart around because her point of view on things are sometimes some what different then the Brothers, sometimes a man need a womans prospective on things. She gave me lots of advise on how to improve relations with my little sister. So the Sweathearts and the house moms' are a big deal to me. I understand that there are some chapter's of Sigma Chi who do not have Sweatheart's, they are not a requirement. But I think they should have one. I also know that not every chapter utilizes the Sweatheart in the same way. But I hope I gave a different light on why we have our Sweathearts.