Tiers of the Big 12
 

Macallan / EW, I'm interested in your thoughts. I think highly of greek life at the top 4 I have listed here, for sure. I have no respect for Tech's setup, but I put them pretty high due to what I have 'heard' about their fraternities strength on campus.

Texas
Kansas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Nebraska
Missouri
Texas Tech
Iowa State
Kansas State
Texas A&M
Baylor
Colorado

lol its spreading

Kind of hard for me to comment to be honest. I have never visited KState, Iowa State, or Nebraska (well, I've been to some football games in Lincoln but didn't spend any time with the greeks.) I've spent some time at CU-Boulder but was only around one fraternity. It's just a different environment up there. Lot of fun though. If you can't have fun in Boulder something is wrong with you.

I'm really just throwing this out there:

Texas
Oklahoma
Texas Tech
Kansas
Missouri
A&M
Baylor
Okie Lite
Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas State, Iowa State

co-sign.

Though Okie Lite below Kansas? I don't know. Oklahoma St. seems to be the equivalent of Miss St. to Ole Miss. So it's proper, perhaps.

After having visiting brothers from the bottom tier there...they are deservedly bottom tier. I can't imagine any of them getting into a good chapter at the UofA, much less anywhere else

Are you sure you are not ranking these schools on your experience with your own fraternity? Sometimes if your own fraternity is not up to your standards you tend to assume that is true of all fraternities at that institution. Several chapters at Kansas State and Nebraska have won awards from their fraternities...especially Kansas State which appears to have a very strong Greek system.

KSU and OSU are pretty strong in my opinion. I put CU so low because they have no university backing. I'm pretty sure the University doesn't acknowledge the fraternity system there or something (no IFC).

Yep, I'm sure. I don't really have any experience with my own fraternity with any of those schools except for A&M, Tech, Oklahoma, and Baylor. However, I will say that SAE is very strong at all of those.

Like I said, I put KState, Nebraska, Iowa State and Colorado all together because I have zero experience with their Greeks. I will say though, that just because a chapter wins awards doesn't mean that they should automatically be considered one of the tops.

Yeah that is true about CU. Forgot about that. I just really disliked OSU when I went up there. Stillwater is just a bad college town, in my opinion. Sorry to offend anyone if they go/went there. Just thought it was boring. I have a buddy in Sigma Nu there though, and from all indications they were a very strong house, probably the best on campus......and the only house it seemed to have the type of guys that you would find at your good Souther greek schools.

I was not aware that each of The Big XII schools had excellent Chapters of certain GLOs at each and everyone of them.

I just wonder if this is not true in any and all big conferences?

Is LXA,SAE, KA, KS, SX, SN, BTP, Etal on every campus in these conferences?

Maybe someone should check and find out.

There IS an IFC at CU, it's just that the system as a whole withdrew from University recognition over some new regulations (I think it was deferred rush, but I'm not sure)

As a Big 12 Greek (Nebraska Alum, grew up in Kansas City and have a ton of friends at both KU and K-state, have visited OU, OSU, ISU, KU and KSU - the last two many times, met several CU greeks through various means...).

I'd also say that throughout the conference, there is a lot of quality, and actually splitting out the schools is requiring me to look at a lot of factors. There's not a lot of difference between #3 and #7, and there are plenty of reasons why a school could be higher or lower than I have them.


First "tier"
Texas (but from the few people I've talked to there, it's a stagnant system and losing ground)
OU - simply impressive, great numbers, great chapters, good environment
Mizzou - amazing history, chapter houses are phenomenal, benefit from having KCMO and STL to draw from along with Springfield.

Second tier:

K-State - gets the edge over Nebraska because of more houses being wet still - Manhattan sucks though
Nebraska - Greeks here get their shit done - dominate GDI's in grades and campus leaders, party well despite having to go off campus
OSU - similar to OU, but just not as good,
Kansas - Lawrence is a fun place, but there's a lot anti-greek hatred. Many greeks I know won't wear their letters on campus. Sororities are definitely farther along than many of the fraternities. There's a lot of ultimate frisbee played at KU.

Third Tier:
Texas Tech - Has to be better than A&M right?
TAMU - has to overcome the nutjobs in the Corps
Baylor - it's a religious school
ISU - the kids that aren't cool enough to go to Iowa end up at ISU. Ames is a hell hole. The ISU greeks I've met from a number of different houses just are huge nerds across the board.
CU - There's a reason why the Pac-10 has been rumored to secretly wish CU would join their conference - definitely more of a west coast hippie/surfer vibe than any thing else. I respect that their IFC has gone it alone without University recognition, but that's not a very good position to be in.

"Stagnant system and losing ground".

What?

I'm gonna need an explanation on that.


.....and I'm sorry, but putting Tech third tier is dumb.

Giggle.

(with apologies to aggieaxo):)

Macallan did you go to Texas Tech?

Texas

KSU has a strong Greek system, cannot speak of OSU or ISU, Un Co. is not Greek friendly at all.

While never visited any of the Texas campi, UnNe. has a strong Greek base as does Un.Mo.

Un. Tx, seems to be gobbling up houses to expand.

I do not think anyone can belittle the Big XII schools for Greeks as most that I know are pretty strong. While spread out in housing sometimes it is hard to really tell.

Un. Ak should have joined the Big 8 when they had the chance and would not miss Un Co. at all!

If you had to shorten Arkansas, postal wise it's "AR".

Anyways, we get faaaar more money in the SEC.

Sorry miss typed the r! Wow, I am really sorry.

I am not sure what you mean by more money?

Oh, who won the NCAA Championship and who beat an SEC school? Oh, that must have been UNC.

How many other Conferences had so many schools in the NCAA than the Big XII? Oh, it must have been 5.

So, for what ever reason you mention money, that just might change won't it!

Oh, lest we forget, how many football teams were in bowls? Oh, seems that the Big XII was very well represented compared to some.

When I think of Texas I think of VERY strong top chapters, but then a lot of parity, and struggling houses. Also, with the property tax situation being what it is (and perhaps getting worse), there just isn't much room for expansion, new buildouts, etc.

If any of this is wrong, I apologize. I never attended there (just down to visit my gf)

No no no.

The reason we make more money is because a) tv rights are more expensive, b) to my knowledge we share profits. That is, if someone makes a championship it gets shared around. That way, even a terrible team makes money.(I've been explained this is what happens, but I'm not sure) So a mid-tier team like Arkansas who only does well in track, baseball, and sometimes basketball...gets the same amount Florida does. I'm not sure if that's entirely true, but that's what I'm told.

In reference to the Univ. of Arkansas to the Big 12 / and EW's statement that they make more money in the SEC.

That's what one of my best buddies from there always says. My reply has always been that they are a poor man's SEC team. They will never win that conference, and don't get the same caliber athlete across the board (yes, I enjoyed watching your RB's) that the top schools there get. And the SEC has more top recruiting schools then the Big 12.

Now, in the Big12, you may get less money, but you have more natural rivalries and travel distances. You get less money, but you would automatically rise to a year-in-year-out contender in the North = BETTER chance to win a conf title. = BETTER chance to get to a BCS game.

$$$$, both conferences do a even share of the money. You can only send 2 teams TOPS to BCS bowls, and the Big 12 does just fine getting their 2 in each year = $$$$ for Arkansas.... However, the SEC TV contract is a monster, and that is definitely a better deal then the one the 12 has now.

/end 2cents. ;)

Texas has about 4 houses that would be considered a 'top' house at any school in the country. After that there's maybe 3 others at most that would stand a chance. Texas doesn't have a very high % of undergrads in Greek Life, I think a lot of this has to do with the difficulty of getting in the school.

Also, we have a few houses like ZBT that are traditionally jewish fraternities that are actually really strong chapters, they just tend to fly under the radar.

Yeah it has a lot to do with the difficulty of getting in.......and the fact that there are, what, 39,000 undergrads? Of course the % is going to be low.

I just don't think our system is "stagnant" or going down hill.

Funny isn't it?

It might just change after this year!:cool::D

That's ok Blondie-I am use to the aggie bashing on this site (and just about everywhere else I go). :p

This is the only reason I'd ever want us to join the Big 12. The fact that there are alot of closer schools. The ability to road trip. Our closest in conference game is Ole Miss which is 400 some miles from Fayetteville... in that same distance, I'm told you could travel to seven Big 12 schools. Oklahoma, Oklahoma St., Mizzou, Kansas, K-State, probably Texas Tech and...Nebraska? I don't know.

EW is correct. The SEC does share profits. I believe there are two profit sharing agreements. One has to do with TV rights in that every SEC school receives the same amount. The other has to do with post season play. (i.e. bowl games and NCAA playoffs etc.) The school participating receives a much higher percentage with the remaining amount distributed among the remaining SEC members. And excluding the BCS bowl games, the rest of the tie-in bowl games for the SEC have some of the best payouts. With eight guaranteed SEC bowl slots, that is a lot of money. And the SEC basketball contract (especially the one with CBS) is not shabby either.

Arkansas fans travel very well. And with only four conference road games a season, distance doesn't matter.

For what it is worth, I know quite a few Arkansas Alumni from the SEC Alumni Group here and almost every one of them said they prefer being in the SEC. Many reasons but the main one was not the money, but that they felt more aligned "as a people" with the rest of SEC.

I'm hoping that we stay in the SEC (obviously), but start playing more regional games. Which we already are...suppose to be playing Texas (though I heard it got cancelled?) and then starting '09 we play A&M at the new Cowboys stadium. I'd love to see a game against OU, OSU. With as many people from the Tulsa area as we got, would be great.

Hey, not all of the Corps members are nutjobs- my brother is a cadet and I can assure you he is far from it. :)

As for the UT comment - from the people I've talked to, whom I have every reason to believe at their word, the percentage of Greeks has remained pretty constant over the past 15 years. However, the numbers for multi-cultural groups and co-ed organizations now make up between 1/3 and a 1/2 of that same stable % - much, much, much higher than they were 15 years ago. While there are certainly strengths and benefits to having these groups on campus, the related decrease in IFC/NPC organization numbers = stagnant system that's losing ground it once held over other universities.


Fayetteville is within 500 miles of both Ames and Lincoln at distances of 460 and 429 miles respectively.

BigRedBeta, as a Boulder alum, I have to chuckle at your characterization of CU as having a "west coast hippie/surfer vibe". So true! I had never considered that we might be a better fit in the Pac-10, but you might be right about that. Arizona and Arizona State have always been favorite destinations for Coloradans who want to go to school out of state. And of course, many Californians head to Boulder for their college years.

Tom, there are no chapters of LXA, SX, KA, nor BTP at Colorado. I think my brother's GLO, DTD, used to be there many years ago, but no more. The fraternites separated from the University over the question of deferred rush (the sororites decided to play ball, but their numbers have suffered accordingly, although picking up to some degree more recently, I believe.)

IMO the University clamped down after the unfortunate death of the pledge during initiation at the Chi Psi house in 2004. One such incident can have repercussions that last for years, cancelling out the many, many positive contributions of the Greek community there.

As a KSU greek, I feel we have a pretty strong greek system.

Since 1980 K-State's Interfraternity and Panhellenic Executive Councils have won 12 and 11 top honors (respectively) at the Mid-American Greek Council Association (MGCA) annual meeting, which hosted councils from 29 states in 2008:
Jellison Award for Overall Programming Excellence (top honor)
Won by Interfraternity Council at the Mid-American Interfraternity Council Association (MIFCA) conference in 1980 and 1982, and at the Mid-American Greek Council Association (MGCA) conference in 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006.
Sutherland Award for Overall Programming Excellence (top honor)
Won by Panhellenic Council at the Mid-American Panhellenic Council Association (MAPCA) conference in 1982, 1983, 1984, 1993, and 1994, and at the Mid-American Greek Council Association (MGCA) conference in 1996, 1998, 2001, 2005, 2007, and 2008.
Chapter and individual awards
Several of K-State's fraternity and sorority chapters have also garnered top honors at the national level over the last six years. These include Alpha Gamma Rho, Alpha Tau Omega, Beta Theta Pi, Delta Sigma Phi, FarmHouse, Kappa Kappa Gamma, Lambda Chi Alpha, Phi Kappa Theta, Sigma Lambda Gamma, Sigma Phi Epsilon, Sigma Pi, Tau Kappa Epsilon, and Triangle.
Individual fraternity and sorority members also continue to win awards and scholarships for their service to the university and to their national organizations.

I've been to KU and NEB, they are ok. I've only heard stories about ISU, CU, and both Oklahoma schools.

A big reason GLO have changed at Texas is you MUST be in the top 10% of your HS graduation class to get in. This happened several years ago when they did away with affirmative action. It has been sucessful and the population have the school has followed suit. So needless to say everyone who goes through rush has good grades. People can get into UT by a CAB program when they are soph. You must go to a UT A,SA,EP, etc and if you make grades are guarenteed admission. Many friends who are UT alumni kids have no chance of going to school there. Its sad and changing the face of the school. Sororities havemore people affilated there etc. DOn't know about fraternities.

While a majority of people were in the top 10% its not a requirement. I was barely in the top 50% but I went to a private school.

I haven't noticed our numbers decreasing in our greek system. I'm also an old balls and don't come around that much, but it doesn't seem like any are smaller than they used to be. Seems like most of the houses I keep in contact with are going pretty steady.

I've been to the following Big 12 schools.

Baylor
KU
Nebraska
Oklahoma State
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Texas


I like the Oklahoma schools for the average size of the fraternities. You can tell that greek life is important when you have monster houses and more then just a couple large chapters.

Texas, I don't have much experience here so I'll reserve judgement.

A&M and Baylor :rolleyes:

Nebraska is pretty badass in my opinion. Nice houses, and pretty big chapters.

KU has a lot of history. Can't tell you much as it was a while ago, but I had a blast in Lawrence, the houses were ginormous.

In A&M's defense (and yes even Baylor) greek life is still pretty new. I started school in 90 and greeks were just being recognized by the university at this time.

As far as I know we are still playing Arkansas in Austin in September.

K. I heard a rumor that it was cancelled. I will be in Austin for that one, I think.