Obama tackles race anger in major speech
 

Obama tackles race anger in major speech

Senator confronts issue triggered by his pastor's inflammatory comments

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23687688/
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...edName=topNews
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/03...on_race_i.html

A point he made just does not sit right with me:
He made a comparison between his pastor and his grandmother. He made a connection where I can not see one.

Both came up during the same time period in diiferent areas and that is what shaped them to who they are today.

I will be listening to the speech again for more clarity but that is what I gathered.

Hosanna superstar

The connection is that they are both people he loves, both shaped who he is, but on certain occasions both have made comments that offend him. Asking him to distance himself from his long-time pastor for a couple remarks that he disagrees with is like asking him to distance himself from his white grandmother who on occasion would make derogatory remarks about certain racial groups. I thought that it was a good illustration of why it would have been wrong for him to have to reject his pastor out of political pressure. I thought the comparison was helpful.

Here is the full 45-minute speech: http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hisownwords

I highly recommend the speech in full, rather than the 5 minute clip that seems to be on most of the news sites.

Part of me sees and agrees with you both.
Part of me sees "family" vs a more public person.
One is talking one on one. The other to a congregation.

exactly Jon....and that is what he is doing...he is being forthright about what has happened and telling the public to do 2 things...discuss it and also let it not cloud the election....also find ways that we must move on from it

His preacher is a racist lunatic. I doubt that he shares these views but he needs to distance himself from this guy.

I actually like the speech, though I'm currently disgusted by the media lovefest. Chris Matthews said it was one of the best speeches in American history, and I nearly vomited. I'll try not to let my distaste for the pseudo-impartial Matthews taint my view of the speech, however.

I did find it interesting that Chuck Todd stated that a white person could not have made that speech. It hadn't really occurred to me, but it is ironic that Obama is getting some acclaim for admitting that white people have legitimate gripes on a lot of things, yet those things probably wouldn't be well received if uttered by a white candidate. I don't even mean accepted by the black community, I don't think the MSM would be falling all over themselves to celebrate this honesty.

MSNBC is the Obama network now.

It has gone off the deep end. I hate Fox News, but MSNBC is becoming just absurdly biased. I'd watch CNN, but I don't like having to listen to a 30 minute human interest piece about a grandmother and some health issue just so I can get to a 40 second rundown about newsworthy events in the middle east.

Shiner...I think that the problem is....no one white that i can think of in recent memory tried...the closest I can think any white person ever got will Bill Clinton's aplogy for slavery.


In my own brutally honest opinion, I think that the reason why no one white and in the high echelons of power has ever really stepped to the plate is either fear of looking like a fool or losing some kind of credibility among his or her own people.

Heck, this would have been even a good time for Bush to step up to the plate and address some of the issues.

This is the biggest problem today....no one wants to step up and ADMIT that there are still problems!

A couple of things:

I think you're right that it isn't attempted. However, I don't think that changes how it would be received. Hell, the entire GOP is labeled by even mainstream democrats as a racist party. I'll get to the lack of trying in a moment, but I just don't think you'd have big time media outlets getting starry eyed if McCain had made a speech that included some of the things Obama's did. Even worse, actually, I think they'd reject it and trump up the controversy, fueling the cries of racism and prejudice that would surely come. Look at the people who speak out about busing and affirmative action now, almost all are granted no credibility by the mainstream media, regardless of their motivations. So in that regard, I certainly think society rebukes white people who make statements like Obama did.

However, I do think you're right that white folks are afraid to try. I'm not particularly concerned about the issues Obama raised that bother whites, but I think our failure to speak openly about them is indicative of the racial fear that plagues white America. We're so focused on not looking racist that we'll not only avoid speaking our mind, we'll throw other white folks under the bus so that we can point to them and say "look, I took out one of my 'own,' surely I'm not prejudiced!"

I just don't think the environment is favorable for that kind of speech from a white person, unless it is completely safe and merely represents the white community taking responsibility for the problems encountered by black Americans. But, ultimately it is the white people who cower in the corner, they're the ones who make the final decision to stay silent and not engage in honest discourse.

Part of the reason why I hate hearing someone say, "I'm not racist...I have black friends..."

There will never be such a thing as a 'safe' environment...MLK and Malcolm spoke out in far more dangerous environs back in the 60s and ultimately sacrificed thier lives....40 years later if there are those who are still afraid to speak may only have themselves to blame for the environment to come out and speak on it.

Regardless, something must be done...we are at a point where there are more minorities here than there ever was...more people of differing beliefs and if it's not addressed now then someone else will set this country back.

Now and tomorrow is not the time to be afraid to take step

I agree, people should not be afraid.

However, I think we need all aspects of society to help. White people would be celebrated for admitting that people in their family were scared of black guys on the street, and that they thought such fear was irrational. The problem comes on the back end, are we ready to really get into part of that fear which isn't so irrational? Thats what I don't think would be well received by either the black community, the ivory-tower liberal community, or the MSM.

But you're right, opposition isn't an excuse. I just hope that we can at some point have an honest discussion, where people can speak their minds without being ostracized by society for controversial viewpoints, which obviously repels those ideas it finds uncomfortable.

I liked his speech because it wasn't just an explanation of his own relationship with race, his pastor, etc. (and jon he's not saying that his pastor was right to say those things, in fact quite the opposite, he's saying that his pastor is an important figure in his life despite the facets he disagrees with) but it was also a challenge to the general public to move forward with racial relations not be stuck in the past.

exactly drole...and let's ask ourselves...do we not have someone on the family or someone that we know that we aren't particularly agreeable with everythign that they say?

Do we just disown them?

Or do we sit and listen to what they have to say and either agree or disagree with that and learn from that?

I'm fine with this mindset, as long as the same reaction comes from the same people when the circumstances are different.

Not 100% true. Just the other day, during an interview he said that he never heard any of this while in church(?!?!?).
Now he is indicating that he did or at least may have. Humm-flip/flop?

However I know of a few people who:
Did not like the direction their house of worship was taking,
Did not like how it was being lead.
Did not like the direction it was taking or going.

So, what did they do? They at least voiced some concern. Tried to change it. And if still uncomfortable with it, they found another house, another congregation.
From what I have seen and heard, Obama did nothing.

Or perhaps he tried to 20 years too late.

35 mins worth of wasted words...huh?

35 minutes 20 years too late perhaps?

This is my feeling.

Anyone- like me and many of us here- who has ever spent a significant period of time affiliated with a church knows full well that you become intimately familiar with the preacher's general position and tone.

This is Obama's "Swift Boat".

And he is part of the reason it is so effective. The Swift Boat ads against John Kerrey were largely effective because Kerrey decided to portray himself as a Vietnam war hero when his actions after he came home were far from honorable (in many eyes at least- including mine.)

Obama has made this worse for himself by promoting himself as very, very close to this church and Wright. When you add in the fact he STILL has yet to offer much substance in his speeches- Wright's rhetoric is all the more damaging because it is something people can understand real fast and associate with a candidate who has yet to really lay out his general philosophy in a realistic and pragmatic way.

I have never liked Obama because of his reliance on happy sounding rhetoric instead of substance- but I do not think he shares Wright's views. I really don't think Obama is an anti-white militant. He is far too intelligent for that.

But this mess has cost him any chance of winning the general election- more because this all came up without the country having a real understanding of how Obama planned to handle the most powerful job in the world.

Obama is not responsible for the racist lunacy of Rev. Wright- but today's speech sounded a few decades out of place. And all the pundits on the news comparing Obama to Dr. King are being terribly disrespectful to the very REAL courage Dr. King had and the very REAL danger he and his followers faced daily. People like me look at that and are turned off because we feel Obama is being shoved down our throats even more than before. Noone is talking about what he can actually accomplish- but are rather making excuses for him.

Obama is responsible for not having started off his campaign being more open, pragmatic and substantive in his presentation to the voters. And this is what will cost him the election- as well it should.

The real nightmare now is for Democrats on two fronts.

First- mathematically Obama is almost certain to win the nomination, but now he is unelectable (at least I think so.) I do not envy the Super Delegates.

Second- Obama is caught between appeasing the African-America power structure who feel you defend your own at all times and at all costs (NOT the African-American community at large since I still believe most African-Americans are just as appalled at Wright as I am), and the rest of the party. And a big new demographic in this party is the Hispanic vote who are not going to be sympathetic to Wright or the association with Obama.

Rev. Sharpton himself in the last election made a big issue of how Democrats have taken the black vote for granted and worked to court Hispanics and swing voters.

We are now at a point where many issues, immigration the big one, create an enormous conflict between major voting groups within the Democratic Party- and this spells disaster as long as the CBC and other African-American power structure groups continue to play the game of "give us what we want all the time or we will turn on you in a heartbeat".

That may have worked 10-20 years ago, but the demographics of the US have changed and it won't play anymore.

And that is a shame for everyone since it creates division that is totally unnecessary.

If you failed to read/hear any substance in his speech today, then maybe you're just too smug to comprehend anything you don't type yourself.

quote of the week

20 years too late? Do you mean Obama should have known by ESP that when he began attending the church that his pastor would make these comments?

And I don't think there are enough churches in a community for a person to think that they can find one where they agree 100% with everything the pastor says. How many people would attend church if that meant you endorsed everything that the head of the church said up there? I don't think that most people want to attend a church where there isn't a dialogue in between its members as to what their religious texts mean. If you go to church only to validate your own beliefs and make sure you don't run into any contrary opinions, then I don't think you're (1) very bright, or (2) a very valuable member to any congregation.

And if you do think that church is about being with a group of people that don't disagree on anything, then that's great.. but open your mind up to the possibility that other people do things differently and maybe in Obama's church, people aren't pressured to have a uniform, carbon copy, litmus test of beliefs. Sure, it is okay to expect that certain central tenants of a belief system are shared, but I don't think that's what we're talking about here. This is a pastor sharing his opinion on how his faith translates into politics. I don't think that we have the right to expect (or should expect) that a politician is going to listen to his or her religious leader in making religious decisions. If that's what we wanted it, why not skip the middle man and just put the religious figure in office? There's a reason we don't and for that reason we need to give politicians a little slack if they don't agree 100% with every political opinion that their religious beliefs or chosen religious advisers express.

Do you ever make intelligent comments? Every response I have ever seen from you in a contentious political discussion is some one-liner that you obviously think makes you sound smart.

I was not addressing the speech specifically but the circumstances around it.

I heard the speech and it did sound great and it did have some substance to it- but it also had a lot of excuses and at the end of the day I do not think it will matter to many voters who supported Hillary or for swing voters who are undecided- the people he needs to win a general election.

I avoided getting into the specifics of the speech since I knew a handful of morons like you (and you are the king race baiter on this forum in case you didn't know it) would not be able to have a rational discussion about it.

Instead I focused on the practical realities of what has happened- and in the end that is what really matters if we are talking about who will win the Oval Office in November.

Does your mother?

all Hail the KING (race baiter)

LOL! Because ALL of my Race War threads were soooooooo successful!

FWIW, I think in true Obama-style you're more of a uniter than a fighter, Senusret.

Be it a week, a month, a year, 5 years whatever number you feel is correct and/or accurate-OK?
But I still believe what I said, based upon just what I said "people that I know".
I never said that one has to agree with everything but one wants to feel at home, comfortable, at easy in their place of worship. Perhaps one could just about say one should.
And if you do not, well see my post above.

Thanks, toots. Even though I wouldn't necessarily label myself that way, it's very flattering.

I just think political discourse on GC is just silly most of the time. Smugness, arrogance, long-windedness -- these things are not earmarks of a sound, well-researched argument. They are just as dumb as hysterical liberals who resort to calling something racist or sexist just because.

I have lots of opinions that are on either side of the proverbial aisle. I am a gay black man who is pro-choice, pro-marriage equality, pro-peace, pro-2nd amendment (as interpreted favorably to legal gun owners), pro-homeschooling, etc.

It took a long time for me to decide which candidate to support, so I respect those who are still undecided, or those who even decided on a different candidate than me.

I have a lesbian AKA friend who is pro-Hillary and she seems to be the only person with whom I can sit down with and discuss the pros and cons of both Hillary and Obama. I know she's not calling me a sheep because I support Obama and she knows I'm not calling her a sellout for supporting Hillary. But it's tough finding people like that who you can talk politics with rationally.

So I keep it light on GC and/or look to specific posters for their comments, DSTCHAOS being one of them because I know our thought processes are similar even though our experiences, values, and final decisions might be different.

In other words, I don't have to have one-liners in political discussions because I can't think of anything substantive to say -- I live substantively. GC is where I play.

LOL.

You and I are holding hands and strolling into the sunset.

Co-sign---across the board.;)

so,,,,,uuuhh...without the 'moron' portion...what did YOU get out of this speech today.....care to talk about that with out 3rd grade namecalling?

"We are the world, we are the GCers, it's true, we make a better day, just you and meeee".

Sorry, I had I moment. Wait, I've got another one, "Reach and and touuuuuch, somebody's haaaaand, make this world a better place, if you can...." FYI: To those who are unfamiliar with some southern black churches, this is our benediction song on 4th Sunday.

"It only takes a spark, to get a fire going. And soon all those around, can warm up in its glowing..." Pinkies inspired me!

So, who's gonna break out a good round of "Kumbayah" for us??

Did anyone else get this Presidential vibe during the speech? I did....

I am breaking up your discussion to handle my thoughts on the matter. Any quote not included means I have no comment.

IMO, this is not a "swift boat" of Obama. Yes, I can concede that he attempted to portray himself as a religious Christian person, but knew his Reverend was a loose cannon. However would Rev. Wright be outed like he was by the media.

Most African Americans shrug when they hear Rev. Wrights comments. Pretty much "And, your point is what--how is that going to get me paid?" Those Af Ams that are shocked and appalled by Rev Wright's comments are very few...

I think that is another hurdle placed in front of someone like Obama that he has consistently shown to surpass. This man is not a dummy, he graduated from the Ivy League. He will have strong counselors when it comes to how to handle a particular position. The United States has NEVER gotten this far in politicized race relations before and notably everyone is scared, because where will it put us? That is what causing people to be so enamored with Obama at this time. Can I hate Black people when they rob my house (like they are doing right now) but still be confident in voting for Obama to I don't seem like a racist pig? I that is a simpleton's mind on a very complex issue...



The irony of the African American "power structure"--there is no structure... If you want to put one out there, then hey, it's the Crips and the Bloods--or with some level of Bracketology... There are African Americans INVOLVED in several levels of a power structure that is a part of the American structure--but one person of the "Head Kneegrows In Charge" ;) No--that is just in Blaxplotation films and rap music videos. Hayle, the Bourgeousie does not respect BET anymore and they have let money than Puffy Diddy or whatever he's calling himself these days...

If anyone wants anything to go down in the 'Hood--you have to go to the state pen for that...

Demographics have changed, but not THAT much... And there are a LARGE contingent of folks totally overlooked on their opinions that are realizing their voting rights and power and it is NOT Blacks nor Hispanics--but various ethnic groups of Asia... They wield ALOT of leverage that their vote once not considered... NO ONE is really catering to them to the level that I think they ought to...

The other issue an ethnic group that use to taunt African Americans until 9-11 has realized the blind bigotry that American wields. And that is of folks who are of Middle Eastern descent. Some are American citizens who can vote. Most are not. But I cannot tell you how many Middle Easterners, some Muslims, who have told me the pains they have suffered to ignorance and bigotry.

What I want to know is do we WANT racism and bigotry to be directly placed where it ought to be, in psychiatric care? Or do we want to fight these things politically and legislate out hatred based on looks? Is it that simple?

Personally, I think this place is the ONLY place where we can have a discussion, sometimes not being civil, but for the most part being instructive.

LOL:D

Seriously-
I do think that we can all agree that racisim still exists today. The problem is that racisim still exists today. We all talk about it and we end up getting angry with one another without understanding the anger or where it's really coming from. Sometimes it's coming from the same place and we don't sit down and discuss it. That's what I got from the speech.