Question for those in the business field -- Is a MBA really important?
 

I posted this here because this forum gets more traffic than the Education one.

How important do you think a MBA is? Do you have one? If not, do you plan on getting one? Why did you (or do you) want to go to grad school for a MBA?

I'm just curious... it's something I'm seriously considering.. but the $85K price tag makes me sad.

If you have aspirations to reach the upper levels of a corporation, then yes, an MBA is important. MBAs also tend to command higher salaries. Where you get your MBA also counts, so it is worth it to get it from the "best" school you can get into/afford -- but $85K sounds kind of steep, where are you looking?

i agree - MBAs are only worth it from the top schools. corpAmerica is snobby like that. If its not Wharton, Stern, Tuck, or HBS (im sure im forgetting some other big ones) you miss out. Ive seen/heard the convos at work.

A: back in my day at HBS... blah blah blah. where did you come from?
B: Random B-School Univ, class of 07
A: Right, so yeah back to me and my awesome MBA program...

of course, the minute you mention one of the big programs its a game of "oh did you have prof. so and so, did you serve on blahblah club/committee? what year? oh, so you MUST know so and so... are you attending the cocktail alumni shindig?"

and all this other mess. its like choosing houses all over again lol.

So, so true. So many schools offer MBAs, and they're not all created equal. Unfortunately, a lot of people aren't that informed, and they think that their Cowtown University MBA is equivalent to a Stern/Columbia/HBS/Stanford MBA, and take out a ton of loans, expecting the same respect that someone who took a challenging program receives. Joke's on them, really.

Jeez J... just because Cowtown is my top choice doesn't mean you need to look down on me!

MBAs get your foot in the door. But, at my workplace, we are a dime a dozen. Almost everyone around me has a Masters, a JD or a PhD.

Was it worth it? Yes and no. My undergrad was MUCH more challenging.

Did it get me a job? Yes and no. It got me the first job in my field. I was recruited from my current company by my former Director. He didn't hire me because of my degree; he hired me because I knew what I was doing.

Did it get me more money? I don't know. I'm not rich, but I have a good income. From hiring others, I know that when I need to pay someone more, I go to bat with their education.

MBAs are valuable in many segments of corporate America as long as they are from an accredited institution. It does not have to be from the top or most prestigous institutions, especially since prestige is often not based on academic rigor.

People who have a wealth of experience and education before they got the MBA will especially not be hindered if their MBA isn't from a "top tier" institution, as long as it is an accredited institution that people have heard of. Corporate America will look at what you have learned and give you a chance to advance on the corporate ladder based on knowledge, experience, and hard work.

There will always be jerkoffs who wave their MBA from (insert prestigous institution here) around and companies that laugh at certain MBAs based on name alone, however there are more than enough million-billion dollar corporations that won't so you'll definitely find your fit.

MBAs are anywhere from important to essential depending on what you want to do.

If you want to work at a mid-sized to large corporation and progress past middle management, then the MBA is essential. That is a standard expectation today.

It is also very important if you want to take on a management role in the startup environment. Venture capital firms and other early/mezzanine financiers of startup operations like to see very highly educated people at the helm on the finance/business management side of things when they consider taking the risk of investing in a growing venture.

The MBA is also essential if you are interested in doing consulting work at a future date. Depending on the area of consulting you might potentially enter, you will need several years of work experience first- but it is a very attractive and flexible option for people as they progress in their careers. Getting the MBA now will keep this option open for you at times in life when consulting might suit you.

If you want to work in a smaller company that is not public or go into certain non-profit positions- the MBA is not as essential as it is for the above scenarios, though it is always helpful.

The MBA experience is quite different from college. I partied my way through college since a lot of it was just memorizing stuff and taking tests. A good MBA program goes much further. Classes are often discussion forums looking at real life business cases. Good programs will include extensive training on interviewing and professional conduct- that stuff you need to get that extra edge that makes you stand out from the average job applicant in ways you could never imagine until you see it for yourself. There is also a huge emphasis on group project work.

And for that reason I think it is absolutely worth the investment.

Getting an MBA won't automatically make you a better candidate, but assuming you do well and have a good work ethic- that investment will pay off fast. It is not unusual for MBA candidates to get paid 4-5 figures more per year for similar work to someone who got an undergrad and worked a few years to reach the level of job you would get right out of an MBA program! Seriously. Plus of course you can then move much further up the chain from there.

Right now there is job shrinkage in the US- but that is at the lower end of the employment scale. MBA demand dropped in the early 2000s, but right now we are just as in demand as ever- and so having one will make you a lot more hireable at a time when jobs are there for top candidates, but harder to find if you lack certain basic credentials- the MBA being the big one.

As for where to go- think regional first. I got mine at Texas and I still live here, so that matters. Sure Harvard or Wharton would have been nice- but generally I think you are better off getting an MBA from a top school in the region where you want to live. If nothing else, you will be going to work among a lot of fellow alumni.

The one thing I do not recommend to people is to get an MBA from U. of Phoenix or some other online program. Those are certainly beneficial and offer some value, but you lose out on a lot of the personal interaction- and companies know that. A U Phoenix MBA can get you further than not having one at all, but it will not come close to the potential value of an MBA at a respected business school where you attended in person.

Also, consider Executive MBA programs. Texas has a very good one. This is a way to get your MBA while working full time and is every bit as prestigious as going the more traditional track. Takes a bit longer, but it is much less of a life disruption.

Good point. I do startup companies, and even though I am a Texas grad, I have NEVER hired a Texas MBA. I have interviewed a few, but they were all very arrogant in the interview process and did not seem to want to do all the busy work everyone has to do in a startup.

Not all MBAs are jerkoffs (DSTCHAOS you chose the perfect word there), but plenty of them are. I could not stand a good number of my classmates.

But some big companies do want that. In many environments it is considered ideal for upper management to be very aloof and above everyone else- especially in large corporations.

texas*princess- promise us that if you get your MBA you won't become a jerkoff.

And this is annoying in a people sense but generally works in a business sense.

thanks for the feedback so far.

my company is pretty big... and i know that a few people in my office (we have several) have just recently received their MBAs that are 40+ yrs old.

I'm not sure if a MBA is absolutely neccessary to be part of my organization, because I know several people at our HQ that have only an undergrad degree that are doing very well for themselves. There are even a few (who have been with the company very long) that started college, but never finished that are also doing extremely well because they are just plain talented.

I signed up for my GMAT... which is the first step. I am sort of on board for the right reasons, but the bigger part of me just wants to be challenged so I thought pursing an MBA would be fun and challenging to do.

Those who are doing very well in my organization that have an undergrad are about a decade older than I am.... so part of me feels like the MBA crowd in my industry are "a dime a dozen" but the other part feels like this is something I need to do if I want to stay competitive at my company since I'm a younger generation....

i promise :)

My ex-husband has his MBA in Finance with a Bachelors in Accounting. For him, it helped him move into finance from accounting. It has been his experience in the corporations in our area, that most people in business have an MBA and the ones who were really moving up were the people with law degrees. It has helped me in his teaching, as he is teaching at the University of Pheonix sometimes, which he couldn't do if he didn't have the MBA.

I think the need for an MBA really depends on the company. I work for a company where very few people have there MBAs. I think maybe 1 out of our 10 exec officers has it. Consequently, I'm not really concerned about it limiting me as I move up the management ladder. My company is more focused on employees becoming educated in our industry (assuming we already have a bachelor's). I'm also well aware of where my peers are at in terms of educational level.

This is so weird, because I was just reading this article today: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23468789/

Here's an excerpt:

Lately it seems that everyone and his or her brother has been going back to school to get an MBA, but the importance of this higher degree is getting diluted, and it’s never really been a guarantee you’ll get that plum executive job.

Believe it or not, the majority of CEOs running major companies in the United States do not have MBA degrees. Research done by BusinessWeek magazine in 2006 found that fewer than one in three executives who hold high level positions in corporate America had an MBA.

probably because many CEOs went to school in a time where MBAs werent the norm, or even the requirement. their years of on-job experience, 10-15 years down the line to get to executive status, theres no need or time to get one. and certaintly not needed, since a CEO is making the kind of money an MBA would warrant.

no one is doing the degree for the experience. go get an MFA then.

http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/mba/adm...nance/cost.cfm
Wharton is $71k yearly

http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/aboutstern/
interestingly enough, Stern is cheaper at $40K yearly (perhaps they didnt factor in housing costs?)

http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/costsummary.html
HBS is $77k yearly

http://www.tuck.dartmouth.edu/admiss...d/tuition.html
Tuck (Dartmouth) is $70K yearly

http://www4.gsb.columbia.edu/mba/lea...ition/expenses
Columbia is $74K yearly

so umm yeah. not off the mark by that much.

True, true. Also, many of the CEOs of major companies started the companies themselves or their families did, and didn't have to climb the corporate ladder the way a lot of people have to now.

I'm seriously considering getting my MBA. Yes, I'm an architect, and I'm not looking for a way to hop onto the fast track of the corporate ladder. No, I've learned that most architects don't know how to run a business. Many are arrogant and never really had to learn how to make a profit. Most architecture firms--even the big name firms--aren't pulling a profit, their employees aren't getting anywhere near the standard benefits, and morale is low.

At my firm, it's a little different. The people in charge actually have business training in addition to their architecture backgrounds, and you can totally see the difference. My only problem is that I want to go to a good business school. I don't need to go to HBS, Stanford, Columbia, or Stern, but I can't see spending all my money going to a fly-by-night B-school.

yeppers... and my figure is guesstimating a tuition increase by next year since that is when I will likely start if I don't get this gig I put in for.... and books.

I'm looking at a few schools in my current area that are good schools , but that may change if I have to move for work.

I agree.

Plus, the top execs and CEOs not having MBAs doesn't mean that those they employ won't be required or "required" to have an MBA. Even if the MBA isn't a requirement, I've seen many announcements that say "100K...10 years experience...MBA a plus" and it really is a plus. You will be dealing with an aspect of the job that the CEOs won't be and you won't be competing with the CEOs but instead with others for the top jobs and business leads. That's why there's a corporate division of labor.

Those are, without a doubt, outstanding schools, but there are many other well-regarded schools that will give you a great education, good contacts and will "look good" on your resume and cost for the full degree what the schools above might cost you yearly, if you either don't get into those programs or don't want to be paying loans until you're 70. If you haven't looked at them yet, here's US News & WR's list of top MBA programs and BusinessWeek's list of top Executive MBA programs:
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/03/emba_rank.htm

It all depends. If you want to work in New York, DC, or Chicago, good luck on getting a "top job" coming from a regional or less-regarded school. Plus, the top 20 schools on the US News list are still $40K/year or more--even the state schools. If you know you're going to stay in your region, maybe a second-tier school will work for you. But, you can't honestly tell someone who wants to be an i-banker in Manhattan that they "can go to any school," 'cause they can't.

An Executive MBA isn't even the godsend that people make it out to be, unless again, you're sticking to your region, or if your company's paying for it and you intend on staying at your company for the long term. My ex-boyfriend graduated at the top of his eMBA class at Cornell (a top-ranked traditional MBA program), but he expected the job offers to come rolling in when he finished. Last I heard, he was still at the job he hated, still expecting the big offers to come in. Luckily his company paid for the degree, so he isn't in debt for it. An eMBA isn't going to offer you the same opportunities that a full-time MBA will.

I probably sound like a real jerkoff, but this is a subject near and dear to my heart, in part because I'm considering an MBA, and also because I'm an unrepentant school snob.

Baby, you know I'd take caaaare of you!

I have often thought of going back to school to get my MBA. However, when I was an undergrad we were told that it is best to get a few years (5 to 10) of experience in a real work environment before you get into an MBA program.

As for how important an MBA is... it really does depend on the company size. For example, smaller companies are less likely to require an MBA for their executives.

Hi dukedg,

To address the first paragraph- it is very true that there has been a rush of people going for their MBA. But I would argue this is all the more reason to get one. It is becoming a standard expectation as college has become so much easier for reasons that would take a whole other thread.

And the article is right- the MBA is no guarantee of a great job. But not finding a good job is entirely the student's fault in the present job market. The world is full of unemployable people- even in MBA programs.

What is important is opportunity. At Texas, there is an entire career center in the business school and top companies flock there to interview MBAs and undergraduates. Every week there are interviews to be had- and it all comes right to you. Some other departments like Engineering are much the same, but most other students don't have this luxury. And so anyone who finishes an MBA at a good school in a decent economy (which we are in for the purposes of employment at this level) has no good excuse for not finding an acceptable job.

As for the majority of CEOs not having MBAs- I can believe that. Others have given 2 of the best reasons- 1, the MBA was fairly rare when many people of typical CEO age were graduating and getting out into the world and 2, a lot of companies are family owned-run or promote from within.

Plus, the number of really great companies with opportunity for advancement and quality management are limited. If you want to work in the best companies today, you need a graduate degree- and in the future being bi-lingual or multi-lingual will become even more important than it is now. Finance and accounting are also more important. With SOX, revenue accounting issues with complex new technology products, the growing complexity of debt financing and global companies with increasingly complex international accounting and tax issues- the finance and accounting areas are where the big demand is now. I have seen a great surge in CPAs who rose up in companies on the accounting and finance side becoming CEOs.

Point being, I can believe that fewer than 1 in 3 top executives have MBAs. But among high quality companies with growth opportunity for new employees- it has been my experience that most have MBAs, and certainly the ones who advance quickly up the ladder.

There is no substitute for a good work ethic and experience. I have put people in accounting/finance roles who did not even have undergrad accounting degrees because they were really smart and worked hard- and did a great job.

But in the long run, there is not much time to get to the top if that is where you want to go. I was rare in getting my MBA right after college- most people work a few years first. So by the time most people finish an MBA in their mid 20s, they have about 15 years to really progress to the VP level ranks if they want to be CFOs or CEOs someday. That can come even faster in the startup world- a lot faster.

If you want to move that fast and be in position for a solid career at the upper eschelons, the MBA is really critical.

Many companies, for example, take newly hired MBAs and put them on rotation for 1-3 years working with management in different departments. It is a rare chance to see the whole company and establish a network of support directly with upper management that almost noone coming in at the entry level will ever have a chance to achieve. And it comes right away- you don't have to work 10 years to get there.

In a practical sense, the real value of an MBA is time. Assuming one is a good candidate- it gets you into a new job at a higher level much faster, and precious years are spent building from that higher starting point instead of slogging it out in entry level assignments trying to get noticed.

But that does not mean all MBAs will get to the top or that non-MBAs have no chance. It is just a matter of improving the odds.

That is definitely something several of my MBA-grad friends will attest to. In the MBA program, a lot of what they went through were real-world examples & discussing how certain companies do things certain ways, so if you jump into the program right after undergrad, you might not have as much to contribute compared to your peers.

My two cents. Graduate, Get a Job, Wait a year until you have enough tenure to be reimbursed for education and let your employer pay for it.

No, you will not live on campus. Yes, you will be distracted by your full-time job. But, you will be able to bring something to the table during your class discussions and help out on projects.

Nothing peeved me more than to have a recent grad without any business experience to be on a project with me. They could not contribute a thing and we ended up assigning them the busy-work. Trust me, you will get a lot more out of your education and you will be less in-debt.

Interesting topic. I had a lunch meeting with my director today and this was one of the topics. His view was that in the technical arena, what was more important was having the technical knowledge and completing a MS in a technical area. He felt it could be an asset, but didn't seem to be something that was absolutely necessary for those in technical fields looking to move up.

Any thoughts? Anyone in a technical field go and get an MBA later?

I totally agree. If you have an employer that will pay all or some of the education, go for it.

My employer no longer foots the entire bill which is kind of a bummer, but they do pay up to a certain amount.

For the friends that I had that graduated recently, their entire program was paid for provided they passed all their classes with good grades and stayed with their company for 5+ yrs after they graduated, otherwise they would have to pay it back.

Okay, I did the Fortune 10 (but can keep adding to the list if people are interested). All information is from Fortune, Reuters and Business Week. Please let me know if you notice any errors.

Infomation in following order: Company CEO Age MBA?

1. Wal-Mart Stores H. Lee Scott Jr. 62 No (JD)
2. Exxon Mobil Rex Tillerson 55 No (BS in Civil Engineering)
3. General Motors G. Richard Wagoner 54 Yes (HBS)
4. Chevron David O'Reilly 61 No (BS in Chemical Engineering)
5. ConocoPhillips James Mulva 61 Yes (McCombs (UT))
6. General Electric Jeffrey Immelt 52 Yes (HBS)
7. Ford Motor Alan Mulally 62 No (Masters in Science and Masters in Management)
8. Citigroup Vikram Pandit 51 No (MS in Electrical Engineering and PhD in Finance)
9. Bank of America Corp Kenneth Lewis 60 No (Bachelors in Finance and Executive program at Stanford)
10. American Intl. Group Martin Sullivan 53 Unknown (He is a chartered accountant (British CPA))

I've debated MBA vs no MBA and for now continue to decide no. For I-Bankers and the like I completely agree that the school matters. Especially at the beginning. That being said, I've always been told that for any other type of job the school (and grades) only matter for your first few years. After that it's just a foot note to the work experience you've aquired since graduating.

eta: TP - If you get job and expect to stay in the area, UCSD finally opened a business school. http://management.ucsd.edu/ It's still relatively new but they fully expect for it to be a top school one day. :)

Only possible correction would be to declare #9- Bank of America CEO a "Yes". I am not sure how it works at Stanford, but generally speaking any reference to an "Executive" program is a reference to an MBA- specifically the Executive MBA program I mentioned above at Texas for those who earn their MBA while continuing their career.

But I would point out that while 4 of the 10 on your list have MBAs, at least 7 of them have advanced degrees beyond undergrad- and advanced degrees specific to their professions.

Plus on the Oil and Gas side, it is not uncommon for engineers to be CEOs. However that industry is not in growth mode nor is it of interest to many general business students. Thus it is tricky to use that particular industry to recommend people get their MBA or not. If nothing else, once you get into oil and gas- that is pretty much where you stay. The regulations, nature of the business and accounting functions are highly specific- and at a fairly early point in your career you have to decide whether to go that route or not. It is not easy to jump from oil and gas to another industry once you are entrenched.

Not trying to beat up on you or anything- but just sort through the statistics with a more specific approach to explain why I strongly advocate people get their MBA if they intend to rise in the corporate ranks.

jubilance1922- I cannot speak to all technical professions, but a number of physicians and medical researchers have obtained MBAs in recent years so that they can move out of medicine and into the highly lucrative health care management field.

But this is a specific circumstance born of the growing power of business in the management and oversight of medicine, and not necessarily reflective of the need for people in other technical fields to get MBAs.

Doctor salaries for all but top specialists have been under significant downward pressure in recent years, and so with all the money to be made in the still growing health care industry on the business side- many physicians have made the leap through both their technical experience and by attaining an MBA.

I added a link to the executive program -- it is not an MBA, but rather an intensive course for seasoned executives. I don't feel beat up on at all! I, personally, like to have some information to look at when I consider things like whether I would want to go back and get an MBA.

I think an MBA is a great way to get a foot in the door if you want to change careers, especially into something like finance or strategy. I don't think it is necessary for everyone who wants to move up in corporate america, though (just my opinion). For that kind of money, I would hope everyone does some thorough research into what he or she is looking to get out of the MBA and which programs, if any, would suit those needs.

I-bankers definitely need an MBA from a Tier One Business School. Whether they work in hedge funds, mutual funds, individual private accts etc, it will be necessary for advancement.

For others, the MBA vs a different MA//MS may be not as much of a priority. I advise graduate students, the majority of which are looking for an executive program so they can concurrently continue with their employment while pursuing the MA/MS/MBA. If they are in a highly specialized field, they tend to go for the MA in the specialized field ie FBI, CIA, NSA folks look for a Master's in National Security. Procurement and acquisition analysts as well as logisticians go for the MA in Procurement and Acquisitions Mgmt. The generalists go for the MBA.

I'm just finishing my MBA and it has literally doubled my salary.

However, here's my advice: Take it seriously and go to a full-time program, night school and weekend programs are only good if your company is paying and you get an agreement for a new job following your degree. Go to a public school in your home state, it's a lot cheaper. Go to the best school that you can get into that meets those criteria. Ask what companies RECRUIT and HIRE MBA's in your desired concentration on that campus. Are those companies ones you want to work for? I got hired by a company that doesn't recruit on my campus, but it's much easier to get a job for one that does. Go to NSHMBA. Don't study for the GMAT, it's a waste of time (people who study don't do any better).

Also, you do not need a "Tier I" degree to be an investment banker. Investment banks hire a lot of people from the next tier down (Big 10, Pac 10, Big 12, Tobbacco Road, and other private school eg Emory, WashU, St. Thomas, ND)

I consider "Tier I" to be Ivy League+Stanford+Chicago and possibly Michigan and Northwestern

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

What makes the evening/weekend program any less than the regular full-time program?

I know plenty of individuals (VPs, Sr VPs, etc) that graduated with a 2-yr program from great schools and did the evening/weekend classes. It's the same material, it's just a little more rigorous and accelerated.

I agree with this advice. Get a real job, get some experience and then go back to school - you will get much more out of the program as you will be able to bring real life situations to the class discussions.

Also, I agree with the advice on getting your employer to pay. Getting an MBA or an advanced degree (MS or MA) is becoming more important in the corporate world regardless of what your undergraduate degree is in and many employers are willing to pay some/all of the cost. I am an engineering manager and I was strongly encouraged (and I encourage the people to who work for me) to get an advanced degree in management/business and my employer paid for it.

The corporate world is changing and advanced degrees in business/management etc are becoming necessary to climb to the senior leadership/executive ranks in many industries. Having hired several people over the past few years, your experience is looked at first when you apply for jobs, and the fact that you have an MBA/advanced degree (from an accredited school, not just top tier) or are working towards one is also looked at very favorably. I know many top executives who did not have advanced degrees and thier companies sent them off to Sloan etc for business/management masters as it was a prerequisite for them to advance to the highest ranks in their companies.

Agreed. My former BF was a Managing Director at Investment Banking firm. He did not have an MBA, but did have a JD (Big 10 school). He also completed a 24 month program at Harvard in business, but it was not a degree program.

Their firm typical hires out of college were from the Ivy League. These kids were worked to death (80 hrs per week and at a low pay) for two years, when they would typically leave for B School. Once they graduated with their MBA (typically from an Ivy League school), they were in high demand on Wall Street. The firm x-BF worked for, never hired recent-MBAs without experience unless they were willing to start at the bottom.

That's me! Unfortunately, I wasn't working for a great company at the time and had to foot my own bill. I did it in 1 1/2 years.