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My Thoughts On Fraternity Guys...
I think we all learn some valuable lessons during our time in chapter. One of the biggest lessons I have learned from this past year has to do with fraternity guys. They are undateable!!! Now don't get me wrong...they are fun to hang out with, cute, smart, nice, etc but things just don't seem to work out when you want more than friendship with them. I had to date lots of fraternity guys to figure this out, but it is definitely a lesson that I am going to remember. It's definitely hard to adjust to especially since you see them all the time (mixers, parties, philanthropy events, school). I just thought it was a lesson worth sharing with you girls!
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In school yes, most guys are undateable but not nesessarily after we graduate. Dont assume we are all that way. There are some of us that go unnoticed http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif
Kevin |
hey all, this is a very good topic. Greekcutie , I totally feel you on that, I do believe most not all, I repeat fellas NOT ALL. But some of fraternity Men , are hard to deal with past the friendship thing. But some of you are really great. (Just haven't met the great ones :P )
Nothing but love guys~ DGPhoney~ |
I totally agree with you guys on this topic. Things have never worked out when I dated fraternity guys...but they do make excellent friends. Some of my fave memories from this past year have just been hanging out with them. You're right though about when it comes time to be more than just friends with them...not a good idea!!! I am beginning to think it is college guys in general, not just fratenity guys! They are soooo hard to understand.
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ha ha I think its GUYS in general, not just college guys. They act like they like you and then they freak out. I give up. LOL
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Yeah I think it's most college guys in general and not just fraternity guys. I have not actually gotten to a dating stage with any college guy. Yeah my bf now is in school, but he was also in the Coast Guard for 4 years before going to school.
Here's one fraternity guy dating success story... one of my sisters dates an AXP. They've been together for quite a while! |
Amy,
Girls can be just as confusing or even more so. lol Why cant I think what every woman was thinking for one day. ha ha |
What the hell kind of thread is this? Where's all the testosterone on this board?
Just because you have had a few bad experiences doesn't make you dr. joyce brothers... [This message has been edited by Lil_G (edited August 01, 2001).] |
Um, I believe that is Dr. Joyce Brothers.
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Hey now, Well sometimes it is hard to read what women think. Than woman blame it on the guys.
[This message has been edited by Ex greek (edited August 01, 2001).] |
This is what I want
1) A guy to make me one of his top priorities. Number 3 would be good. I like to feel needed. To take care of me- pamper me- not necessarily with gifts, but time, the way you treat me in front of your friends- maybe pamper isn't the right workd 2)To listen to me and remember what I say 3) To like me would be nice too Ex Greek- check out dream guys and you will find out exactly what girls are looking for!!! I would like to have a relationship that is longlasting-my longest is a pathetic four months. What's wrong with me? |
Alphasiglana, those three steps come easily to me, I always do that with women. Thanks for the info on the thread. Also there is nothing wrong with you about your relationship lengths. To me, it just means you haven't found the 'right' guy yet.
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Ummm . . . I think most of you ladies have made it perfectly clear that you do, in fact, know what college-age guys want - ie not a serious relationship . . . this is then followed up with "(Fraternity) Guys don't know what they want, which makes them hard to date."
I don't know what to tell you all - there's plenty of great guys running around, and a lot of them are in fraternities . . . seek 'em out, they're there, i promise! Just realize, many guys aren't into getting very serious, b/c at this age we can't deal with that. Hey, it's better to be up-front with this than to spring it on ya once you've picked out baby names and all that crap (which, btw, has happened to me . . . it was weird, i won't lie)! I think the point is that we all have to realize that, just because guys don't necessarily want the same thing as girls, this doesn't mean that they don't know what they want (and vice-versa i suppose). Instead of limiting your potential dating situations by providing 'conditions' that need to be met, instead we should probably all try to be flexible in our desires (although not in our needs - sometimes hard to discern) for our significant others, and things will usually work out far better. maybe. -Rob |
Hmmmm. Let me chime in here a bit. Fraternity men will eagerly commit to you if they like you enough, and understand that you like them in return.
Here are some guidelines: 1. Just because someone hooks up with you doesn't mean they like you all that much, especially if drunk. Even when they pay a lot of attention to you and call you. 2. Men even more than women can disassociate feelings from physical encounters. 3. Its not so much a question of whether a guy is ready for committment or not, its whether he is ready for a committment with YOU. How many times will someone give someone the I-don't-want-to-be serious-right-now speech only to turn around and start dating someone seriously almost right away! (Hint: We all mentally rehearse that speech.) Why? They liked the other person more than you. It sucks but it happens to us all. So lets not sugar coat it and make it seem like an age thing, college thing, or even guy thing. Its a like thing. Kevin, you are way to nice http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif you'll date more girls if you are a bit more callous http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Women like that http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif We, Fraternity men, make excellent friends in that we usually are partying and if you hang out with us will be hanging out with a bunch of guys that like to have fun and are paying attention to you. Sounds good to me http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I like hanging out with groups of girls . . . especially when I am the lone guy. About our friends being more important: Again it depends on how much we like you. I have seen the biggest player type guys miss the social equivalent of Super Bowl parties to hang out with their girlfriend, and perish the thought, her parents. Why? Because he was really into her. If we want to do other things more, well it means we are more into those other things than the girl. But there are probably other girls out there we would be more into than those things . . . if that makes any kind of sense. About us saying we like you and then freaking out . . . its kind of the role you know? When we fall into the dating- boyfriend pattern we are kinda obligated to be supportive, caring, and say sweet things. A lot of time its pillow talk. (shrug) So when we freak we are experiencing a kind of cognitive dissonance. Between where the role seems to be taking us and how we really feel about you. Well g'night http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif |
I agree with what everyone has said here. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I couldn't add my two cents without saying the same things again. However, I think that it is hard to date a fraternity guys with out dating the entire house. I know in smaller greek systems where everyone knows everyone this happens. What do you guys think???
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Lil G, good to see someone standing up for the rights of testostorone. Keep fighting the good fight brother, you good people.
Why must college women put so much emphasis on monogomous (sp?) relationships???? I mean come on, you encounter so many people during your college "career", lol, how in the world are you to know that the person you have just hooked up with/met/went on a date with is the one that you HAVE to be in a relationship with. Cmon, its 2001, get with the program. DATE OTHER PEOPLE, FIND OUT WHAT YOU TRUELY WANT IN LIFE. I am an active KA, and I have been with my girlfriend for two years. Before her, I dated several girls, and usually more than one in a given time frame. Not tooting a horn here, but I learned more about myself and others during that time than at any other point in my life. Why did I settle down? Well, she hit me over the head with an iron skillet, drug me home, and claimed her stake. I never saw it coming. Sometimes the good Lord blesses you with the one you are to be with early in life, and sometimes he doesnt. I miss the dating scene, but I also wouldnt trade what I have right now for anything. |
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[This message has been edited by Ex greek (edited August 02, 2001).] |
speak on james and KSig RC!!!!!!! i feel the same way its like everytime you start dating a girl next thing you know she's thinking your the one who's going to be the man of her dreams, and all the time she's thinking this your thinking your not sure if you really like this girl or not and before you know the pressure builds up and you have to get out of there. so my advice for the girls is just to relax, give us some space and take things slow, we might be the man of your dreams but you'll never know if smother us from the start.
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AlphaSigLana---Whatever http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif ------------------ University of Alabama--- ROLL TIDE!!!!! |
James, thanks http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I agree with your insight as well as KappaSigRC. Its pretty much right on. More callous. hmm. maybe. I did think of that in college because some of my brothers were that way when we hit the town, but I never wanted to project myself that way because it isnt me. I just always figured that if I tried to be something I wasnt the girl would see right through it and of course if she didn't I guess I'd wonder. I guess I'm dwelling on this too much. Its just I've had bad luck I guess. Many of my brothers have told me that looks are not my problem its just that first step. I've always been rather shy and to others I guess appear snobby. But I'm not. lol Anyways, thanks for the input. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif
One little rant I have (looking back on my college experience) is when a woman falls for a guy after a hook up and then the guy gets skidish and then a guy is seen as a total looser. But then if the roles are reversed the guy looks worse.(in terms of womans opinion) Just my opinion I guess. Kevin Quote:
[This message has been edited by Miami1839 (edited August 02, 2001).] [This message has been edited by Miami1839 (edited August 02, 2001).] |
This is so unfair! I guess I'll never have any relationship with a college guy, because the only relationships I've had (in highschool & such) were serious.
I guess no one will want to go out with me because I intend to stay a virgin for as long as possible. I don't want to "hook up" with a guy for a one-night stand. The only thing I would do if I did have a "casual" relationship is make out or maybe a little more. I will probably be labeled as a "tease", then. :*( All I want at this point is a really good guy friend who is always there for me who I can maybe eventually fall in love with. I miss the hugs, back rubs, the sweet mushy stuff. :*( But since "no college guys" are into that stuff, I guess I'm doomed to be single from now on. ------------------ ***Tinkerbell*** ~~~Don't worry, be happy!~~~ |
I must not have been as clear as I intended if people believe I was making guys out to be a-holes or even saying that guys pretend to like girls.
I don't believe that men pretend to like that much at all, it takes a lot of energy, we may just not like a woman as much/or in the way she wants us to. Hear what someone is saying and watch what they are doing. If they say they like you, they most likely do. But if they don't want to take it to the next level they probably don't like that girl enough to give up whatever they perceive they would have to give up. Dating, in a fun, but not committed sense can be an end to itself. I think there may be more honesty there than just falling into a committment because the other person wants you to, or gives you the time honored speech of "what we are we doing, are where are we going with this". When you really like someone, you almost can't help yourself, you just really want to spend time with that person. I agree that with Greeks it may be even harder because as a group we meet more people and have more opportunities for fun and distraction. I have seen many a relationship start because the people in question didn't meet many people, or have very much to do, so the relationship was easier to fall into because there were less options for other stuff. The problem is that we would rather blame anything and everything than have to face the idea that someone might not like us that much or enough . . . its a sucky feeling. When its happened to me, I haven't much liked it. What KABillyMac said was good, shop around, stop practicing getting married with every relationship, and putting that kind of pressure on every relationship. Sometimes its as much a gift when they won't commit, would you rather be in a relationship that is doomed because the other person doesn't like you enough to last the long run? That would be really playing with your feelings. Quote:
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Play the field, have fun - don't lower your standards, but maybe lower your expectations of finding your spouse at every fraternity party. Be more assertive, and go after guys (instead of expecting the opposite) - then, try to utilize the relationship for fun and mutual fulfillment (on many levels), and never look at it as potentially 'serious' - that is only inviting failure, and it'll eventually happen if meant to be. Never put that kind of pressure on guys - I have enough trouble doing laundry (OK, dragging it to the cleaners), etc; how can I be expected to be the 'man of your dreams' right off the bat as well? |
Here's my two cents:
Women in general (not everyone, but many) are maternal and relationship/communication oriented. We like having boyfriends because we have someone to care about and to care about us. That being said, the reason a lot of us Greek ladies start freaking out about fraternity boys not wanting committment is because college is often our best chance to meet guys. Think about it...you meet new people almost everyday when you're in college but, once you graduate, you become confined to your office, classroom, lab, etc. I'm 21, I'm not in a relationship, and I think I'm very "dateable." I don't need a guy to complete me, but that I still get lonely sometimes and wish that I had a guy (especially since many of my sisters are in serious relationships and are starting to get engaged/married). All the guys I meet are either 19 or over 23 and usually are in a relationship, which is sooooo frustrating! So, in closing http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif, while their are no perfect guys or girls (Greek or not), we (sorority girls) blame you (fraternity guys) because you are our frame of reference, the ones we hang out with and are often closest to. |
LeslieEMU,
You said that beautifully. I can understand where your coming from. I think your still young enough where you shouldnt be concerned with this and I admit what you said about fraternity boys. Being one I can tell you that there are a handful of us that do want the same thing. Its just that women and men communicate themselves differently I guess. Maybe both men/women should lax up on what they want or what they expect. Not on the basic things like honesty and trust but maybe others. I dont know. I give up. lol Kevin |
LeslieEMU: I thought that was an excellent observation. Ask the question a little differently and you get a bit of the guys point of view . . . College has so many options of meeting girls, what if we settle down to early and miss a really great one? Also, a lot of times men are hypnotized by the idea of being with multiple women, so many times we are attracted physically to a girl, but there might not be an emotional attraction. I have been told by girls that often when they hook up there is a bit of an emotional attachment that almost always goes with it, even if small. So a girl might be bothered if she saw the guy she hooked up with hooking up with someone the next night. With guys this seems to happen less.
TinkerbellMTSU: Don't despair sweetie. There are plenty of guys into the mushy stuff, and you know by looking around that a lot of people are in committed relationships, even Greeks. However, it would be a little unfair to your guy friend to treat him like a surrogate boyfriend, and do the things with him you would do with a BF, without a physical component . . . wouldn't it? It would suck for him. Remember: Women approach sex through intimacy. Men approach intimacy through sex. Subtle but important difference. Hugs, backrubs, and mushy stuff like that will make you feel all glowy and pampered, but will send him running home in a complicated state of arrousal to have a cold shower http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Assuming you are attractive to him http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif Kevin: I'm not saying to be mean. But there are gradients of nice. Most really nice guys I have met (and this is only a personal observation), that complain of a dearth of dating prospects because they are to nice, are not really what I consider nice, they are merely too concerned with what other people will think of them to risk saying or doing things that might anger, offend, or lead to someone liking them less. But this seriously inhibits their behavior and doesn't allow them full expression, and people can sense it eventually, because its really not completely genuine. The trick is to create and maintain a balance between a consistent ethic that allows you to be yourself in way that reflects well on you, and to be considerate of others wants and needs without having to give up your own. And when you find out how to balance that 100 percent of the time email me with the directions http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif AlphasigLana: You should have no trouble finding a boy like that because you aren't actually asking for very much http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif But at least you have taken the first step and are looking. Meeting lots of people is such a gift! If you only hung out with two members of the opposite sex your entire life you would fall in love and marry one of them . . . which wouldn't be great odds for the happiest relationship. Sometimes its harder in college than out because there are so many more people to crush on and so many more for them to crush on also. With that many distractions its no wonder that often you'll like someone that will be liking someone else, and not noticing the person that is liking you. [This message has been edited by James (edited August 04, 2001).] |
James,
Wow, you are good man. You should open up a business or something. Yeah, you have me right on. Many people misinterpret me and see me as fake because of how I act and it is totally not true. Its just who I am. Its my nature to be overly nice/genuine but those that dont know me....... well.. dont understand it. Maybe its an issue I have I dont know but often times I'm taken advantage of it also. I guess often times I try too hard... O well. I give up. ha ha. Thanks for your insight and advice. I'm not sure if I'll ever strike that balance but I'm trying to work on it which I guess is important. ha ha. I'll let you know when I come close to having that balance or at least in the right ball park. Kevin [This message has been edited by Miami1839 (edited August 04, 2001).] |
I have found the entire gamut of men in the fraternity system. There are always the ones looking for the best time they can have that night. However, I remember one story about a sister of mine and a fraternity man she met at one of our exchanges. The girl ended up needing to leave early, but he was friends with another sister of ours who was there too. He kept asking if she thought it would be okay for him to call the girl because he thought she was the greatest thing ever. It didn't end up being long term, but it was nice to see him showing a genuine interest in something that hopefully become more than that one meeting.
Kevin, If I had a nickel for every time someone told me, 'you're just too nice' I could retire now before I even start my career. My friends and sisters know it's for real, whereas some people who I just meet see it as a front and think I must be horribly fake. So, I hear ya! Girls have the same deal too. You're not the only one. I know I get taken advantange of, and I know I need to work on it. On another tanget though, most of my guy friends in school were the nice guys who finally decided that nice really was a "four lettered word" considering how often they heard, 'you're a great friend and I can't date you because you're just too nice...' I think that is an ENTIRELY different thread all together though. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif |
UofISigKap---
I just wanted to tell you that I know a lot of women in your chapter, and they are all genuinely nice. I went to SK's pref party the year I went through recruitment, and I loved all the girls because they were so sweet and down to earth. There is nothing fake about you ladies! |
Thanks DeltaBetaBaby! I just read the comment and it brought a big smile to my face. You're so sweet! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif
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I think Leslie has pretty much summed up what most girls think/feel and why. The fact is we do look for "relationships" in college. At my college, it seems as though your junior and senior year is the time to "settle down." In fact, I can't even count all of my sisters that have gotten engaged in the past 2 years...it's crazy. In fact, I know when I return to school we'll probably be having a candlelighting for someone's engagement...it's expected! We go to school, get engaged, graduate and then get married...atleast most of us (I'll probably be an exception). =)
Kevin- by the way, I personally don't think anyone can be too nice...I see you as sincere (from your comments). And I would have to say that it's nice...because it's rare (atleast from my experiences). So, keep it up! ------------------ Whitney |
U of I SK, Thanks, that was very sweet of you. Its nice to see that I'm not alone on this.
Whitney, Thanks for the kind words too and the support. I hear what your saying and I'll remember that. I guess part of who I am is just how I was raised. Kevin |
I haven't read the whole thread yet but I just had to put in my thoughts real quick before I forget them.
First of all I hardly know any fraternity guys. I know it's terrible to stereotype so I will try not to do that. But for the most part...I think the ones I DO know are players. I have been fawning over a Sig Ep for a year now. It started as a love-hate relationship that was primarily based off the fact that our former high schools were rivals in football. Funny, but one night he and I were alone when he started to make his move to kiss me and we were interupted. Well ever since, and that was in like March, he talks about it. I'm like thinking to myself...why don't you ask me out then. But NO. Instead he pops up online and will chat and stuff and be all like HEY LETS GO OUT, and then the next time he's online he won't say but two words to me. I've tried being just blunt about my feelings and then I've tried playing hard to get. So I think he's just a typical GUY and the fact that he's in a fraternity just makes it that much more amusing. Now to the funniest part. My father, who was a Sig Ep, kinda backs up my statement that fraternity guys are players because when he was in college he was dating three girls at the same time...ONE of them being my MOTHER. I couldn't believe it when she told me the story. It didn't piss her off...she just laughs and said she won the prize. I guess she's a lot more forgiving than I would have been. Oh well. That's all I know and I'm sure the same could be said about sorority girls. |
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Hey everyone....
I saw this article in USA Today recently, and was thrilled to pieces that it was still online... It just talks about the social phenomena that is the non-existent dating scene in college. http://www.usatoday.com/news/healths...women-usat.htm Hopefully that link will work ok, I'm still new to these boards. I agree with some thoughts in the article. After a year of college, I really wish there was something in between the random hookup and an intense relationship. As far as I've seen so far, there is very little middle ground. This topic implies that I won't see much different when I go greek this fall. Anyways, interesting topic, and I hope you like the article... Molly |
WOW...what a topic...what generalizations and stereotypes.
This goes like every other thing..how can you blame the whole for the actions of a few? I am constantly hearing how a lot of college girls think that college guys don't want relationships. Hell, until recetly, I was in a very long relationship.....trust me..many guys want relationships....just as many girls do..at the same time...some don't...as some girls don't. It comes and it goes.....and somtimes someone may not be looking in the right place....and if someone is looking primarily at fraternity guys because of their "looks" "money" "connections" and whatnot....someone may be making a big mistake...Not all frat guys are the same...and in that aspect..not all college guys are the same....maybe it is time to throw in the towel and get passed the looks and money...two things that aren't everything....and in the end..they mean almost nothing... d |
Saying that all frat guys are bad at relationships is like saying that all sorority girls are stuck up/ spoiled/ sluts, etc. It's just not true. Although their perspective on relationships may be somewhat influenced by being in a frat, not every frat guy is a player. I think some guys in general (frat or no) are just bad at relationships, just like some girls in general are bad at relationships. My ex was really bad at relationships( hence the term "ex" :) ), but I've been dating one of his fraternity brothers for 3 1/2 years now, and he was never a player/ asshole/ bad at relationships. I think that you'll always find guys who are jerks-they may be a frat boy, and they may not-but you'll also always find guys that are awesome!
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It's simple really...if the guy likes you enough he will commit. If he doesn't, he will keep you around as a back-up.
This is not shady at all. If you will put up with being second string, it is your own damn fault. Besides, girls do it just as often. |
OMG....DeltaBetaBaby...I shall worship you forever....It could not have been said better.....so so true.....
d |
DeltaBetaBaby~ That is so true! I have seen it happen so many times and sometimes us girls can be so blind and we don't even realize we're the second string! Its happening to a friend of mine right now and she doesnt even realize it. The way I see it If a guy is truly interested he'll come to you and if not oh well move on and have fun with the rest of your life!! :)
Nichole |
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