Discouraging Someone From Rushing
 

A young woman I know is in a situation and would like some advice ...

Her fiance's brother will graduate high school this year. The young man has been accepted to a number of colleges and is still waiting to hear from some others.

Some the colleges to which he has been accepted have strong Greek communities. He has indicated that that he is most interested in joining a fraternity.

The problem, my friend say, is that her future brother-in-law isn't likely to get a bid from a fraternity, even the lowest ranked organization in the pecking order. I should add that my friend went to university with a strong Greek system, was a member in and officer of a sorority and pretty much dated only fraternity men while in college (her fiance went to a college that didn't have fraternities or sororities).

She says her fiance's brother has an effeminate voice and mannerism, is unathletic to the point of being a total klutz, and is painfully shy. She said he is the type of guy you would fix up your roommate with for the April Fools Day dance. She added that he is very intelligent, hard working and has a dry sense of humor.

She says she knows that there is no way that the young man will get a bid, she said she known too many fraternity members to think otherwise.

Short of playing Henry Higgins to his Eliza Doolittle, she wants to discourage him from rushing and getting hurt. Best case scenario: she hopes that he will attend one of the colleges that do not have a Greek system. Worst case scenario: that the young man is in for a bitter disappointment.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanx

perhaps your friend could suggest that the young man wait a year before he rushes, suggesting that he get used to college life and joining a non-greek activity or club. she could suggest that should he decide to rush his sophomore year, he would know the lay of the land better(ie-he would know which chapter he might fit in better).

maybe by that time, he would figure out for himself that the odds are slim that he would be invited to join, or (hopefully) he will be so happy and involved with his other activities that he doesn't have the spare time to devote to fraternity membership or he just might make a lot of friends his first year at school that are in fraternities that appreciate his dry sense of humor and see how he could be an asset to their chapter and he would be offered a bid.

how cruel that she describes him as a person you would fix your roommate up with for an april fools dance. i find it hard to believe that he has no redeeming qualities. i hope that he waits a year , rushes and gets a bid, just to prove her wrong!

While she may indeed be an expert on the Greek community at her alma mater, it is a bit of a stretch to say that she is one on ALL Greek communities. I think the best thing she could do is give him advice on how to go through recruitment IF he goes to a college with a Greek system. Thank God, not all GLOs are looking for the same type of member. There may very well a home for him, even if it is not one she would think of as "top- tier". She should make sure she lets him know that he might not get a bid, but other than that, she should leave membership selection to the fraternities at his school of choice.

Amen.

To the OP: Why is this situation any of your friend's business? If she's in a GLO, she should know membership is a personal decision. If he wants to pursue membership, she needs to stand back and let him do it.

Knight Shadow, my friend is trying to spare her future brother in law some hurt that she thinks is inevitable

RedRover: while that is understandable, she must recognize that:

a). She DOES NOT KNOW that he will not receive a bid,

b). She is NOT responsible for his actions,

and

c). By telling him that he has no chance, she would be basically telling him that she thinks he is worthless. Her time is better spent in condolences IF he does not receive a bid. I would never tell my sister, sister-in-law, brother, brother-in-law, etc that they have no chance of getting a bid. That is not my decision nor is it kind.

I'd think better to receive a hurt from those you don't know well (the fraternities) than to seem to be told by someone you care about that you are somehow not worthy. Especially if that is not necessarily the case . . .life is full of hurts, and no matter how much you want to avoid having those you care about be hurt, the fact of the matter that growth and maturation are often the result of a hurt. The WORST that can happen is that he goes through recruitment and doesn't get a bid. But . . .if he doesn't try, then the BEST that can happen - he finds a fraternal home - cannot happen. Who is she to deny him the CHANCE, only the chance, of succeeding? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Unless he's going to be suicidal if he doesn't get a bid, what's it going to hurt to go through?

It's not impossible.

Just a funny story that might put this into perspective for you:

My very close friend told me that in high school, she was fixed up with this geeky guy for a prom. He was nice, they had a good time, and that was that. She did this as a favor. He was fixed up with her because he couldn't get any girls from his HS to attend.

Fast forward one year. My friend entered a big 10 school as a freshman, and this campus has an enormously competitive Greek system. Imagine her surprise walking around the quads, when she noticed her former prom date, sans geeky glasses and zits, with contacts, cool clothes on, and a pretty girl walking with him. She nearly died seeing him like this, as he looked so changed! She said hello and although he noticed her, he did not make eye contact. He probably was embarrassed to see her and didn't want reminders of the past. Rude, but typical. He had apparently joined a popular fraternity on campus and shed his past awkwardness. Even made it into one of those hunky calendars that the sororities sell!

People can change. Hopefully your friend will be find his footing, get into a house, but not lose himself completely in the process.

I do not think it is appropriate to try to shield other people from getting hurt (unless you believe they will become a danger to themselves or others). People should take risks in life; sometimes they won't work out, but that may be when the person grows the most.

I know a guy just like the one described above who recently got a bid to Lambda Chi Alpha on my campus.

Effeminate to the point that it's annoying and all he does is gripe and complain.

No one knows whether or not this young man will get a bid. There's no point in telling him he won't before he even knows what school he's going to. And, as it was stated above, the fiance knows greek life on her campus--and only her campus.

I'd leave well enough alone.

fanASTic! You stole my answer!! Shame on you! :)

Anyways, I totally agree, by telling someone they have no chance of getting a bid you (or your friend) are telling that person that they are worth less in your eyes and can't live up to your standards!

I have seen people I know that I thought had no chance at ever joining a GLO, rush, successfully receive a bid, and become better people because of it!

Your friend is going to be an obnoxious sister-in-law.

i'm with everyone else on this.

i know plenty of guys who were "geeky" in high school that went on to be successful in college and in good chapters.

It is not her business to intrude like that and try to deter him from rushing b/c she doesn't think he will get a bid. That is up for the fraternities to decide. For all we know, he may find the right group of guys who teach him how to dress and how to shed his "geekiness" without losing himself. During the process, he may decide the whole greek thing is not for him.... who knows.

That is not up to her to decide even if she is trying to spare his feelings.

This girl already is obnoxious.

She was an officer in a sorority on a campus where greek life is big. Wow. Good for her. Here's her cookie.

I was rush chair in a local. Am I even worthy to be commenting on this?

PS Please tell her I said to get over herself.

The young lady in question is a very compassionate woman who has devoted much time and energy to various good causes, working with people in various states of distress.

I truly believe that she has her future brother-in-law's best interest at heart.

One need only read some of the postings about first year college students (usually women) who are "released" from rush to know how painful and traumatic experience can be for some.

I sincerely believe that she wants to spare the young man any pain that might arise.

You've said this several times. Most seem to feel she should give him insight, tips and encouragement (tinged with constructive reality), but let him make his own decisions and experience rush if he wants to. You continue to stress that she wants to keep him from rushing completely to avoid any pain at all costs. So you don't really seem interested in the feedback here and she doesn't even know (I presume) you came here asking for it. So this is accomplishing exactly... what?

I agree whole-heartedly. If she really has his best interests at heart, she will NOT try to discourage him from trying something that may actually be good for him. If she is really as caring and helpful as the OP says, she should USE HER KNOWLEDGE of the Greek system and HELP HIM.

I realize that people get released from the rush process everyday and yea, the feeling will likely suck if it does, but if she isn't even going to let him try, he could be missing out on something that may actually improve his life.

Also..... guys and girls are different.

Maybe I'm veering into another lane here, but aren't bidless girls more common than bidless men?

And how can you tell someone "You are a loser who won't get a bid" without THAT being painful? No matter how she phrases it, that's what he will hear.

exactly. everyone(besides me) has given the same advice-let him make his own decision, and be there to cheer him on or for support if he is unsuccessful in obtaining a bid.

i said perhaps if the young man waited a year, got his college act together(got some college credits under his belt, saw how the guys on campus dress,made friends in the dorm and in the fraternities, he might have more success, if he truly is as unfortunate as the future sil thinks.

no one has endorsed that the future sil tell him not to rush,ever, but that seems to be what you wanted to hear. i agree that this would just crush the young man, no matter what the sil's intentions are. does she want the whole bunch of in-laws mad at her even before the wedding takes place?

I think you could probably be right (though I don't have any data to back that up, it's just a guess) because NPC sororities use "quotas" and "totals" and NIC does not.

If they have a pool of 50 pnms, and the chapter likes them all, guess what? They can bid all 50 if they wanted to and it wouldn't matter if their chapter had 100 brothers and the next closest one in size had only 40.

In that regard, yea, I'd say you're right

I was just going to say that this is definitely a penis/not-penis issue. Part of the reason girls go without bids is that by bidding the geeky girl, you might not be able to bid the cool girl. It doesn't work that way w/ fraternities (most of the time).

Plus, this guy has 6 months till college starts. A LOT can happen in 6 months.

and my final comment....all I have to say is....emo boys...if they were going to college back in my day, they would have probably been beaten up on a regular basis. Now they've got girls swooning over them.

I wonder if this guy is going to be on the same campus as the future sister-in-law and she thinks that his geekiness will embarras her.

I prefer to think of it as a vagina/not-vagina issue.

Anyway, I agree that rushing for guys is generally a less potentially traumatic experience than for girls. Outright rejection is not that common (in my experience), and if it happens, is done on a one-on-one basis, rather than getting rejected by every house at once through an impersonal phone call, as can happen in NPC recruitment. If a guy's not going to fit in at a house, he can generally tell, and if a guy hasn't gotten a bid, there's plenty of opportunity to withdraw from rush, whenever the rushee wants, with whatever reasoning the rushee wants to use. ("Those guys were douchebags, I wouldn't have taken a bid if they'd offered me one.")

haha, ABC family's "greek" come to life?

Isn't there a TV show that addressed this situation already?

Ok, your friend is engaged to someone who has a younger brother who wants to...

There are too many degrees of separation. It's neither your issue nor hers. I would tell her to back off and let the boy experience what he wants to experience on his own. Especially if the advice is not solicited.

I agree. If he has several choices for college, he may very well end up at a school with a less-than-competitive or moderately competitive campus where there will be at least one chapter who might be pledging non-sterotypical fraternity guys. I know I'd sure hate it if someone from Auburn or Bama told someone going to my alma mater not to pledge a sorority because she was tomboyish or larger than a size 6. I think your friend should focus on helping him as much as he can as he goes through recruitment and make sure that he knows that receiving a bid is a privilege and not a guaranteed thing (for anyone in a competitive recruitment). As long as someone knows that going into the process, while they may be disappointed I doubt it would be something a person just couldn't handle.

These are all qualities that guys like.

AMEN! After living with a husband and three sons for 23 years, I can attest to that! And what they look for in friends is different.

Anecdotal but true - in my son's pledge class (which is a good fraternity at a "competitve" greek school), they have a guy who they call "McLovin". If any of y'all have seen the movie Superbad, then you know what the guy looks like, and this pledge brother of my son's looks just like him. He would, I guess by some standards, seem socially awkward, BUT he is probably one of the most loved guys in his pledge class! He has a dry sense of humor and is incredibly self depricating in a loveable way. When I hear my son speak of him, it is with the utmost respect and friendship.

If he had a future sister in law like the one you have described, he might be sitting alone in his dorm room on weekends instead of fully enjoying being a part of a great group of guys!!!

I agree with everyone else. If she really wants advice and she sincerely cares about her future brother-in-law and wants to spare him whatever pain she can, then she should either (1) give him the benefit of her experience by giving him whatever encouragement and helpful advice she can, or (2) keep her mouth shut.

She can't save him from the pain of how others might react to or judge him, nor would it really be in his best interests for her to try. But she can save him from the pain of knowing how she judges him. Being rejected by strangers wouldn't be nearly as painful as knowing that his brother's new wife thinks "he is the type of guy you would fix up your roommate with for the April Fools Day dance."

I was released from recruitment the first time I went through. It was very painful and very humiliating. But I can tell you, with complete certainty, that it would have been so much worse to have a friend or family member tell me "Don't even try. There's no way you're going to get in."

And on the geeky note: I know a guy who was pretty geeky in high school. Short, skinny, looked like his grade level was actually his age, a bit in his popular older brother's shadow. He went to college, grew about 8 inches or something ridiculous like that, changed his hair, and became very confident. He's now pretty popular, very attractive, and I have the good fortune of being the person that gets to marry him.

People change after high school.

My husband was a geek in high school. He was still a geek in college, and is still a geek now. And he loves his fraternity :D

Well said! Can I just say that's a GREAT story?

To my point...Coming from someone who was the awkward, shy and geeky girl in high school, college is a different monster entirely! I've come out of my shell and become a better, stronger woman because of my Sisters and their faith in me. We took a chance on each other, and I'm glad I've had such a great experience.

Likewise, my boyfriend is painfully shy, has a dry sense of humor and can be just as awkward as I was. And now, he's the vice president of his pledge class! There's a home for everyone in Greek life.

Thank you! :)

Aww how cute!

My boyfriend recently confessed to me just HOW many hours of Everquest he used to play (not like I really even know what that game is), and I guess he used to be pretty awkward, shy, etc. He's still shy in some situations, but hey, he's the philanthropy chair of his fraternity. That's gotta say something. Oh yeah, and he's dating me, so he must've done something right.

(I kid, I kid. I'm not that arrogant...)

Exactly.

Besides, while the SIL might be an expert on her alma mater, this guy doesn't know where he is going to school yet. The Greek community at his school could be completely different. I can assure you that a guy like you described would have a good chance at getting a bid at my alma mater. Effeminate voice and a little nerdy? There are some fraternities at my alma mater with openly gay men! (Of course effeminate voice =/= gay and gay =/= effeminate voice, but it could be an assumption of some people.) And let me tell you, I have met some nerdy guys in fraternities. I usually become friends with them.

I would definitely leave well enough alone too--I know a guy who was effeminate all through high school but joined a fraternity in college and is now incredibly well-adjusted and less effeminate for having so many male friends. PS, it's a BIGGGG chapter at our school too.

For those of you who are interested, I ran into my friend who gave me an update concerning her future brother-in-law. The young man has decided to go to a college that doesn't have a Greek system. She said that the college offered him a generous financial aid package, much more than he was expecting. For what she has heard, she thinks that he chose a college that will be a good fit.

She and her fiancee are scheduled to get married the third weekend of June.