Facebook - Privacy Violation?
 

Alright - so my Executive Board has been struggling with the whole Facebook/Alcohol image for a while. Obviously, it's wrong to have pictures of yourself with alcohol if you're not of age. It's illegal. However, they have recently decided that they are not going to allow anyone that is OVER the age of 21 to display any sort of alcohol in their pictures either and "action will be taken" if this continues.

I'm 22 years old. If I'm being forced to take down a picture of myself enjoying a beer that I purchased for myself legally, isn't this a violation of my privacy? I'm having trouble conveying this to them. Help would be appreciated :)

How is this a violation of your privacy? Privacy is having the ability to withhold info about oneself and to be selective of who to release that info to. I think you might be confused -- if anything, they may be infringing your freedom of expression.

Regardless of that, if your bylaws require you to uphold a certain positive image, then having a photo of you enjoying a beer might not be the best idea. If you're willing to comply with rules saying that you need to have a certain GPA to have certain member privileges (and stay in the sorority), then why can't you comply with making sure you don't have any online photos of you holding a beer? I've heard of chapters fining members/taking away privileges because they wouldn't clean up the Facebook profiles and photos. You may have the right to have photos of you holding beer [that you purchased because you're 22 OMG!!!ELEVENTY!!!] but is it really worth risking your sisterhood? Good luck trying to convince them, btw. I have a feeling you'll have little to no luck.

Assuming you're a collegian, I'd just suck it up until you become an alum. They're not doing this to punish you. They're just ensuring that you and your sisters maintain a positive image, and I don't see why you'd even want to question that -- especially when it makes YOU look good.

You know your boss could fire you if you show up with needle marks on your arms too. Invasion of privacy?

What is so important about this picture that you have to have it on your facebook?
1. Is it really worth the time and energy to fight it?
2. Do you have that you are connected with your sorority anywhere on your facebook? If so, even as an alum, I wouldn't post it. GLO + alcohol advertising is usually a bad idea.

There is no privacy violation. They haven't gained illegal access to your home or online passwords.

The sorority is trying to shift its image away from alcohol and partying. You are a member of XYZ sorority, and you're being asked to promote the sorority in a positive way. This means refraining from promoting alcohol consumption on the internet.

No one is telling you that you can't drink alcohol or photograph yourself drinking alcohol.

Any time you join a group that wants to maintain a certain image (so basically just about any group), you give up certain rights for the betterment of the whole. This does not apply only to Greek life. I have heard of instances of athletes getting in trouble over pictures on facebook or going to the bar in practice jerseys. It's one picture, get over it. If you're 22, it's probably better that you don't have it up anyway. Honestly, it's no different from buying a house in an expensive neighborhood and not being able to paint it hot pink due to homeowner's association rules.

Facebook isn't private.

1.) What you are thinking of is that this is a violation of freedom of speech. This is not a violation of privacy.


2.) The last time I checked unless its an actual bottle advertising the beverage for all they know it could be apple juice in that glass and its up to them to prove that its alcohol.


I love being a sticklar for loop holes. hahaha That's probably why my mom always wanted me to join the debate team or become a lawyer.

Generally, it is not a good idea to have pictures with any kind of glass/beverage up, unless it's something blatantly obvious like a milkshake. I have seen pictures of people drinking soda from red Solo cups, and despite the fact that I know what's in those cups, Coke isn't the first thing that comes to mind when I see them. And I'm sure that all 22 year olds drink apple juice when they go out.

Kahlua mudslide? ;)

Rule of thumb for the young 'uns, treat all your online stuff like it's your resume because more and more, it's looked at that way. So besides the whole "what would your Mom/Grandma think", imagine every employer you ever want to work with (or graduate school you want to attend) looking at your profile.

I still don't get why people put all their personal business out there anyway, but if you feel the need to share so much, at least make good decisions. Cover up to at least a level of decency, avoid any drinking photos that are in any way questionable regardless of your age, and no one needs to see you tongue kissing anyone.

I don't go on those sites but people check them for me and I'm floored by the stories of what they find online.

It's also possible to put your pictures and profile private, so that only you, or only the people on your friends list can see photos and information you put up on your page.
But as everyone has already said, it's just a photo, there's no need to get too worked up over it. I mean honestly, if it's that great of a photo just crop the beverage out of it or place smiley face icon over top of it or something.

No privacy or freedom of expression issue here. No privacy issue because they aren't intruding into things that you'd like to keep private, they are asking you to be more private (and you don't have a good argument that a person has a reasonable expectation to keep a public facebook profile private FROM the sorority). No freedom of expression issue because your sorority is not the government. Private companies and associations can create terms of membership or employment that require you to refrain from doing something they don't like as a term of membership or employment. They only cross the line into something that is possibly against the law when they discriminate based on a protected right or class (e.g. they tell you not to vote, they tell you that you cannot go to your church, etc.). For better or worse, the right to consume a substance and publicize that use, whether legal or illegal, has never been given the type of legal protection that race, gender, religion, or the right to vote has. (Caveat: some peyote users in Oregon who tried to say their use (non-publicized) was protected as a religious practice made a particularly good argument about it... but they lost).

I think that your best bet is to appeal the issue with your sorority. Talk to them about the hassle of making sure everyone is complying with the rules in a world of daily/weekly updates to profiles. Also, think of what it will sound like to PNMs that hear that the sorority will tell you what you can put on your facebook profile. You won't be able to tell them exactly what rules exist and why if the gossip is out there (they'll just believe it). Perhaps a compromise is to require that IF your profile publicly mentions the GLO name that then any other PUBLIC photos (not ones hidden to friends only) will contain no alcohol.

What next, is your organization going to prevent you from consuming alcohol in public. I mean come on people, seriously the line has to be drawn somewhere. I mean, now if the picture already breaks existing by-laws such as no drinking in your letters or such that is fine. What if they said you they didn't want a candy bar in the picture cause that would put off the message that your organization is a bunch of obese girls who liked candy too much? Who is going to go for that? The fact is the action is legal and probably breaks no national policies so why push the issue? The fact is, a picture with alcohol in it can sometimes and a lot of times look better than a picture of a girl looking like hell who doesn't have alcohol in the picture but looks obviously drunk. And cups, who is to say there is or is not alcohol in a solo cup? What about cigarettes? Obviously when it comes to facebook discretion should be used as to what pictures are acceptable, but the fact is, I believe there is no harm in a picture of something completely legal.

this is just coming up with your chapter? numerous chapters of all npc sororities have been policing facebook for several years now. usually the executive officers divide up the chapter and are responsible for periodically checking a certain number of the members facebook accounts.

many npc sororities have national policies concerning what is appropriate to post on facebook,myspace, etc. yours may too.

protest if you want, but you are probably beating a dead horse. since you are 22, you may be approaching the end of your college career and it might be time to do some facebook housecleaning, in case a potential employer makes a habit of checking facebook accounts of prospective employees.

It'd be a good idea to extend this to MySpace as well. If you're going to leave your profile public, it might not be a good idea to have every picture of you with a red Solo cup in hand...or passed out drunk on the floor.

Just 'sayin.

I've also heard of school Greek Life advisors policing facebook accounts and fining chapters for having anything drug or alcohol-related on their members' facebook accounts.

yeah that's what the cops @ KSU (kennesaw not kansas state) did too ... but since KSU doesn't have greek housing it was mainly used for the on campus apartments... it sucked but i see the reasoning of them doing that ( i understand the RAs doing it because that's their job)

and last time i checked isn't facebook something you can join willingly??

and there is no invasion of privacy or free rights here, you're part of a selective group.. they have the right to say what you can and can't have on your facebook/myspace/whatever account because they're not run by the feds.

and i agree.. if you're 22..... start cleaning up facebook now because potential employers DO check facebook and myspace and they're more likely to hire somebody that has a cleaned up profile that says I like to go to sporting events and spend time with my friends rather than somebody that has a picture of them with a solo cup and says I like to party and GET WASTED... duuuude!!! * even if the party person has a better resume etc... it's bound to happen because employers don't want to run a risk with somebody that has a party reputation*

We have a similar issue with the exception that it's not a RULE that we cannot post the pictures. I would have no problem pointing out to EC that you can't use disciplinary action against something you just don't like. There has to be precedent. You could fight that battle if you want.

On the other hand, it IS a rule that we can't associate our letters with alcohol. The solution older girls gave in the past was to say that if you really feel strongly that you NEED to have your beer in the picture, then remove your letters from your facebook page and we'll call it even (IF you are of age of course). Obviously no one wants to remove their affiliation just to put up booze pictures, so that took care of the problem.

Here's what I would say...I'm 21. There's only one picture of me on the internet with an alcoholic drink in my hand (one that can be definitely identified as such anyway) and that was an accident. I'm not tagged in it. This isn't because I don't go out...I do that a lot. But it's because I don't want to advertise stuff that I know some people (namely future employers) find offensive, even though it's legal and not offensive to me. It's my right to drink now, but no one is taking that from me by asking me not to post photographic proof of it. I don't want to anyway. Look at it that way. They may just be doing you a favor, in the long run.


Another solution is, if you KNOW you're going to be somewhere where there are cameras AND alcohol is to order drinks in plastic cups and remove the straw. It's not so blatantly alcohol that way.

Or put down your drink when you take a picture!

PS-It's not an invasion of privacy. What you need to understand about the internet is that ANYONE can see it. Even if you make it private, you never know. Once you've posted it, it's out there. It's public. They didn't go through your diary or bust up into your apartment unannounced. Another thing to consider is that part of a sorority is having to lose a little privacy and to sacrifice a little for the greater good. My mom told me that when I joined and has been reminding me every time I get irritated since. She's right, though.

Being in the Human Resources field, I can definitely vouch for this. I am an employer and I DO check facebook and myspace accounts on all of our applicants. It is a way that we can get some insight into your personality and see who will best fit the company culture. While we do not discriminate solely on the fact that we didn't like something on your facebook/myspace page, we are allowed to take it into consideration when choosing who to hire.

Companies like to protray a certain public image just like most Fraternities and Sororities do.

If your group's letters are on that page, they have an interest in making sure it shows the group in a good light.

It's like the issue of not drinking in letters. Your drunk pics--legal or not--on your facebook with your letters in your activities, interests, residence, groups, etc. is a lot like drinking in letters. You're seen with that and your letters at the same time. Deserved or not, people make associations based on those two items showing up on someone's profile. Bad, bad idea.


And seriously, if the picture in question is that important, spend a little time on some creative cropping and photoshopping. I don't know, stick a bunny over the bottle or something. You said you're 22--do you really want to be associated with all the freshmen who don't know any better and put up every pic they have of them with booze in the frame just to say "WHOOOOO NO PARENTS!!!?"

pick your battles...

as regards to the "have all your drinks served in a plastic cup"-again-even that violates some inter/national policies. just put the bottle, glass, cup down when photos are being taken.

which is more important, the alcohol or your sorority? if you choose the alcohol then maybe you should join another group-AA.

Apparently at Virginia Tech the Greek Life office is doing some investigating, too, according to a story posted on a Roanoke NBC affiliate's site:

http://www.wsls.com/sls/news/local/n..._avenger/6433/

Another reminder, sadly, because more concerns about pics posted on Facebook have surfaced, this time at the U. of North Dakota:

http://www.grandforksherald.com/arti...3&section=News

Excerpts from much longer article:

A group of American Indian students plans to file a discrimination complaint with UND’s affirmative action office Monday about a Gamma Phi Beta sorority party in November during which students dressed up in American Indian costumes and slathered their faces and bodies with red makeup. . . .

. . . Photos from the party were posted on the Facebook site of . . . the sorority’s current president, including one as her profile photo, visible to all Facebook users. . . .

I guess the red body paint was a bad idea...I've been to Indian Parties though. One of our fraternities has one every year. I don't know that that's so offensive unless there is some kind of negative stigma attached to it.

They should've just had cute indian princess costumes and left off the body paint.

I don't know. I think it could still be seen as kinda offensive, because it still looks like dressing up like Indians without understanding the culture behind it. It could possibly be seen as perpetuating the stereotype that all Indians wear deerskin clothing, live in teepees, wear feather headdresses, etc. when in actuality, there are many different Native American groups with differing cultural dress, differing traditional types of homes, differing religious/spiritual beliefs, different cultural practices, etc. And it could possibly be seen as cultural misappropriation of a historically oppressed people. I'm not saying that that's what fraternity and sorority members are trying to do when they have Indian parties. But if someone wanted to get offended, they still could.

I just think that's a little over the top. People dress up bare foot, pregnant, and in overalls for "White Trash" parties all the time...it never really bothered me enough to report them for it.

I guess the red paint thing was the last straw. That's pretty tacky.

I haven't read through the entire thread, so I might be repeating...

Our chapter, and also the Panhellenic Council, has been adamant about what is appropriate and not appropriate for Facebook. This stems from wanting to avoid perpetuating the "drunk Greek"-stereotype and also because a number of chapters have been targeted by their Nationals for showing underage drinking, drinking in letters, and so forth in their pictures.

My chapter has been pretty vigilant about calling people out for inappropriate pictures, but we have also been reasonable if people are of age. For example, I could have a picture with a wine glass or even a beer probably, but I could not have a picture of myself funneling a beer or doing a body shot.

That's perfectly reasonable. I think people should just take into consideration what is appropriate to polite society, because when they want to get a "real" job, they're going to have to behave like they're in polite society. No future employer is going to be impressed by funneling skills or law breaking.

I think the whole point is that your facebook or myspace may be a reflection of who you are to the outside world. If you have pictures of you drinking on one section of the page, and on the other side have a section for "A proud member of XYZ!" it sends a mixed message!

I don't think that is the whole problem so much...if you are of legal age there's absolutely nothing wrong with drinking. The problem is when people drink too much. Not saying I've never done it, but it's not all that classy and we all know it.

Like I've said, it's in our code of standards that we can't associate our letters with alcohol. I understand this, even for those of legal age, because of the stereotypes surrounding greek life. It's one way of combating those. So our solution is to say that if you've got alcohol on your page, you have to remove your letters. Of course, no one is going to choose the beer bottle over the letters. Problem solved.

OK, but what if you have an album of your vineyard trip to France or Italy (which happened WITH YOUR PARENTS) and then a sister writes on your wall, reminding you of a meeting? Does that count or not? What if you mention communion wine or the alcohol in medication?

By the way, I'm pretty sure alcohol and letters rule is an active thing and does not apply to alumnae.

Technically that falls into the category and shouldn't be posted. Though I doubt anyone is going to report someone to EC for being around a bunch of grapes. Why in the world would you be writing about communion wine or alcohol in medication on facebook or myspace?

I never said it applied to alums.

Before you twist your panties further, look at the facts. Factually, that IS against the code of standards. It is worded so that alcohol cannot be associated with our letters in any way. It doesn't have a, b, and c for exceptions. Do I think anyone is going to turn a girl into EC for being in a vineyard with her parents? No. That's just the way it is...personally I don't have much patience for people who get so worked up about that. It's not a big deal to just leave alcohol out of the picture. There's a reason for it...unfortunately the bad eggs ruined it for the rest of us.

I don't see why someone would have the desperate need to discuss that on a facebook or mypace. It's a personal thing, but with me I don't discuss things so important on a facebook. If they chose to, again, I doubt they'd be turned in. But yes, that's technically against the code of standards as well. I can't see a situation in which it is absolutely essential to post something like that online.

Ok. Wah.

People always put vacation pictures on Facebook and MySpace. That's just the way it is. And if the entire trip to France or Italy was about touring vineyards, then you're going to have pictures that are alcohol related.

Why is it such a big deal to you? So get them printed and make a really cool photo album to use on your coffee table instead of a generic book. If your facebook and myspace are THAT important to you...well...that's an issue outside of greek life.

I just can't see it being that big of a deal. Touring vineyards shouldn't be a problem - just don't post pictures of you downing the fruit of the vines. Vines - yes. Glasses of wine - no.
I've never seen not taking pictures with alcohol as being a great burden. I just put down the glass before the picture. It seems a small price to pay to insure that I am not contributing to a stereotype that is detrimental to GLOs.