Less popular sororities
 

A question...does it seem that there is a less popular sorority on other campuses? On my campus, there are 12 sororities, and when I (recently) went through recruitment, there was one house that no one in my rush group (or other rush groups) wanted to revisit. When I went I knew it wasn't right for me, and I knew that based on how my conversations with the girls were forced. Don't get me wrong, they were nice girls, and there was nothing at all wrong with them, but you know when you don't click.

However, while I didn't go back after the third round, many people did, often crying over it or complaining. Sadly, out of the 26 bids this house offered, only 8 girls accepted. Is this common? I've always wondered why people say so much sh*t about this house, and I was wondering if it was a common occurence on other campuses.

Happens everywhere. Sucks.

Every campus has a most popular house, and a least popular house. Unfortunately, those designations are often gleaned from things that have nothing to do with reality.

However, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy....if you get used to only having a third of your bids accepted, you go into rush with the attitude that you will fail, and you probably will.

this is so true. i think when girls hear "no one wants that house" they start to think well there must be something wrong with them and it makes girls more likely to decline a bid.

its so sad how much reputation matters.

On some campuses, the reputation is never overcome, and national ends up pulling that chapter off campus. I have seen that happen to at least three sororities on one campus within a 20 year span. At my campus, where over 800 girls go through rush for just 8 sororities, it seems impossible to imagine that anyone can't make quota. However, there is a sorority that has been there for years and years yet rarely makes quota. Two other newer houses are doing much better than this old, established one. I guess the lesson is that reputation IS important and it is crucial that actives conduct themselves appropiately, as well as pledge girls, who can carry on and maintain the high standards set forth by their founders. Because once you have tipped the scales the wrong way, it is very difficult to straighten them up - not impossible, just difficult.

When I was in school, there was one house that fit the bill. Chapter total was 105, and most houses were at total. A couple years after I graduated, Unpopular Chapter reorganized. Today, they are one of the most "in demand" houses on campus. Unpopular Chapter is always top of the Greek GPA list, the members are always involved in campus activities and often hold officer titles, they are great in intermurals, are sweethearts, and most girls are highly attractive.

Chapters can turn around over night, as other chapters can go down-hill with one bad recruitment.

I agree with your post, except for the implication that the cause of the Unpopular Sorority syndrome is that there were girls acting inappropriately with less than high standards. I think it is important to do this anyway, but it isn't necessarily the source or even the most common source of starting the cycle. The time I witnessed a group dive in popularity (from #2 on campus with the highest sorority GPA to nearly dying) wasn't due to any conduct of the members themselves but because of inter-greek politics among the fraternities, not sororities. I've tried to type a more detailed description a couple times in composing this post, but I think that any more than this would be TMI for a public forum. The bottom line was that a majority of men from one fraternity consciously did some things to hurt the soon-to-be-unpopular sorority because they were trying to buddy up to a different sorority that their leadership had connections with.

So... I don't think it is ever safe to assume that a group became unpopular because of admitting certain members that had lesser standards. I would doubt that this is true even a majority of the time.

I haven't known any friends at schools that didn't have this happen!

But reputation can change... it can even change at schools like mine that have strongly established stereotypes. I'm watching it happen right now.

It's so sad that only 8 girls accepted that house. They're probably missing out on a great experience, and if every girl that got a bid would accept, that chapter would become stronger, which would make recruitment easier for them the next year, and so on.

Reputations can take longer to change at some campuses, but I think your top point is an especially good one.

I think there's a perception that if that one chapter would fold, then the system would be stronger. Actually, I think people underestimate how much that one weak chapter (or maybe even group of chapters) is doing for everyone else in terms of propping up their reputations. Everyone else can say "oh, poor XYZ, I'm glad I got QRS" without every having to think about how the girls in QRS aren't much different girl for girl than XYZ; XYZ just has fewer of them. And if XYZ goes away, QRS is going to look a little less attractive compared to the rest of the system without XYZ to outshine.

A major thing that's helping overcome this is the new release figures. I can think of several chapters that were on the verge of dying that have come up to total or almost so in the last 5 years.

I can remember how Erik Conard used to say--bluntly but truthfully-- that we all ought to help the "weenie" chapters because if they died, any one of our groups could be the next weenie.

Yep; it's kind of funny that we went so long without them, considering how much they seem to do beneficially with relatively few differences in bad outcome, as near as I can tell.

I agree that the new release figures are definitely helping the overall system.

The PNMs also don't realize that if they all went to that chapter together, they could potentially completely change the chapter around. Becuase of a rough summer, my chapter returned with 15 members the semester after I was initiated. We took 19 women through formal recruitment that year though. The personality of the chapter changed completely.

Though I agree with your point in theory, PNMs just don't think that way. They're blinded by tent talk and reputations and those things can stigmatize a chapter. All they want is a top tier and they'll feel like they're lowering their standards to take a bottom tier group. It's only after they've been in the NPC arena for a bit do they realize the error of their ways and by then it's too late.

I think that attitude is the most important point made here. I didn't realize how much the reputation and self-identification with a certain image affected me and how I interacted throughout college until after I graduated. We all have stories of women in "Top" houses with bloated egos, but equally as common is the woman in a smaller house who believes she always has to prove herself.

I recently visited a chapter who suffered from a slight lack of self-esteem, and I was amazed how obvious the "we're not worthy" rhetoric was to me. Any of those women would probably have defended their comments and attitude as simply telling the truth or being realistic, but this was exactly the attitude that hurts them during rush.

I think the weight of any image sorority women buy into affects them during recruitment just as much, or more than, the reputation itself. How many recruitment stories have we read where the PNM heard something negative about a house, but wound up really liking the chapter? I think most PNMs are still basing most of their decisions on their personal experience at the chapter, and dropping houses because they got an awkward (probably nervous/defeatist) vibe from the women.

Other things I've noticed about smaller chapters from various campuses: defense mechanism to drop some of the red hot PNMs because you feel they wouldn't accept your chapter, don't want your chapter, or are judging your chapter. Also distrust and meanness to the 'hotter' PNMs. I've seen small houses that pride themselves on how small they are, and not always for legitimate/healthy reasons.

Moral of the story / Sophia Loren Quotes:
"Getting ahead in a difficult profession requires avid faith in yourself. That is why some people with mediocre talent, but with great inner drive, go so much further than people with vastly superior talent. "

"Sex appeal is fifty percent what you've got and fifty percent what people think you've got. "

This reminds me of my chapter being goggle-eyed when instead of PNMs being torn between us and our "traditional" rival, they were instead torn between us and the top/hottest/most popular chapter on campus. Most of them did pick the other chapter, but just being in that "company" did wonders for our esteem, and looking back I think it contributed to us having 2 huge (for us/the school) pledge classes in a row.

thats so true the less popular sorority at my school was good until one year at rush the power went out in their house at night right before round 1 and no one woke up in time and were not at all ready when the first parties got there. it was sad and now they are not a great house anymore. but they are still nice and panhellenic loves them!!!:)

lmao! this cannot be true!

I wouldn't put too much weight on anything that girl says. :rolleyes:

tsk! But OTW! She's SO pretty!!

Happens everywhere. We don't have anything nearly as bad as that going on on our campus, but there are a couple of chapters that PNM's talk down about between parties due to past members and untrue rumors...something our recruitment team did this year was to let their girls know that they were not allowed to say anything negative about any chapter, even if they hated it. They could only offer their own opinions. Of course, you can't police that when they aren't with you, but you CAN before they make their choices night by night, and I think this year it did help...for both chapters. It's not fair for some chapters to get behind without a chance.

Don't you mean we are SO intimidated by her HOTNESS? ;):rolleyes:

Yes, THAT is what I meant! :D

And Jill, how appropriate your "location" still is! (unfortunately) ;):p

Please. Get up, put on your clothes, and recruit. There has to be alot more to their decline than that. When I went thru, I was at one house & the girl that took me was laughing her head off. She said that she had taken a nap and overslept. She heard everyone singing, pulled on her dress, and flew down the stairs. I told her that considering the circumstances, she looked great. We laughed, and I pledged that house. Recruitment means being able to deal with almost anything for a short period of time. One of my sisters cut her honeymoon short to be there with us. :)

gammaphi88... you wouldn't happen to be at UCLA would you?? There's a house on our row that matches your description exactly. Word on the street (which means take it with a grain of salt) is that house is likely going to be pulled after this year. I personally hope that's not true... I can't imagine how devastating that would be for the girls in the house!

why would i lie about that??? i was only contributing to the topic i thought it was interesting.:o
and good for that one girl forgetting to get ready and then getting ready so fast but almost this entire house was late getting up so all the girls who didnt live in the house woke them up that morning!:eek:

Remember, the "worst" house on campus is HOME to some women. These women find their place there, and any talk from any fraternity OR sorority that refers to one group as "least popular" further disrespects those women. Such talk is, IMHO, unacceptable.

To get over this, we can take steps that will, gradually, likely overcome it. Not gonna happen, but it could. We (collectively) seem to prefer the status quo.

Still, none of us should be discussing "least popular" or "worst" houses - we should be discussing personalities and character of each house, at most.

At your campus you only have one party each round? What you are saying could mean one party was terrible, I suppose, but unless everyone on your campus was so superficial that they went back and mentally erased any positive experience related to that chapter from before and after that incident, it seems really unlikely that one incident of everyone oversleeping would destroy a chapter.

I think that's what some of us are having a hard time with. You're basically claiming that a chapter went down the popularity tubes for oversleeping for one party. If they were a well regarded chapter before, it seems a little unlikely.

I think what you are saying has merit, but since more national groups won't let a struggling chapter stay on campus forever, popularity does figure in to the survival of the chapter at some point.

And I think there's a big different between talking about it here with no chapter names mentioned that talking about specific chapters on your campus in real life.

And I think there is a big difference between discussing a struggling, or less popular sorority, and referring to the "worst" house. The one is simply a question of numbers - the other a subjective judgment.
Also, context matters. If you are trying to figure out a way to support a struggling chapter, that's good. If you are indulging in gossip just to have something to say, or in a misguided attempt to make yourself or your group look better, that's bad.

Well, the particular house I on our campus that people generally don't want to join is not in trouble, they don't haze, and they don't have a reputation for drinking and drugs. Instead, its more that they're thought to be socially awkward. (This is the campus stereotype, not my personal opinion.) I think they're really nice girls who have been hurt by gossip, and I think it would be great if they could get their numbers up, because they do have a lot to offer. One of my best friends in on the Panhellenic Council, and we were discussing how great it would be if they made quota, and how it would happen.

Ironically, at my school, the most popular house is the house that many would consider the "worst"...and by "worst" I mean they haze badly (a friend of mine is basically their slave right now), and they are on social and academic probation. In fact, they are on the verge of losing their house because they've already gotten their pledges dangerously drunk.

its interesting that people keep talking about how reputations can change, because it is soo true, but the thing is.. people have to WANT to change. GammaPhi, i think i go to the same school as you, and i know 2 girls that got bids from that house. Everyone kept telling them to give it a shot so they did. One dropped and Two stayed. after getting past the stupid "reputation" or whatever you want to call it stuff, Two realized that she had more in common with the girls there than she originally thought and One confided that although she met a couple great girls there that she'll miss, it simply wasn't for her. when One dropped, she said there were around 17 girls, i can't believe it's down to eight;
but anyway, my point is- from what they were saying, the girls there didn't really want to change. although everyone would love to have a bigger pledge class, their reputation isnt anything super-negative, they're not coke-heads or alcoholics and they're staying true to themselves. maybe this school just lacks genuine girls that aren't vain that want to rush lol

I think you do go to the same school as me Cheburashka, and I think you have a point that I haven't really heard before. In any sorority, its important that you love your pledge class and the sisters. I know a girl in that house, and she loves it and though she wasn't sure at first, she thinks its the right place for her. And your right...they don't have a negative repuation at all. They simply have low numbers. As for the house itself, I cannot say anything bad about it. It sounds cheesy, I know, but I think that while the house wasn't the right one for me (and thats because the house I am in IS the one for me), it is a great house with very sweet genuine girls.

As for the girls who dropped...if it wasn't quite right for her, thats fine. A few girls do that in many other houses too. Why spend so much time and money on something that is not right for you? Also, I think this school does lack those genuine girls lol. Some of the stuff people said about houses during rush was deplorable.

And I did not know that the PC had dropped to 8 members. Thats news to me! I heard that they had around 26! Can you PM me?

Or it totally makes sense why they are the lowest house.

Poor tradition, poor rush tactics, and poor connections.

Those are the three main reasons that there is one struggling sorority on my campus.

What exactly do you mean by "poor tradition" and "poor connections"?

I'm not sure I knew everyone was supposed to have connections with the mafia in order to have a successful recruitment.

I'm just curious as to how a male is so conversant with a sorority's "rush tactics". Surely he isn't relying on rumors and hearsay. :cool:
Plus I can't think of a NPC that has "poor tradition" - since it is EW I assume he means the U of Arkansas.
I'd be willing to bet that the issues already discussed in this thread are more likely to be why a chapter is struggling at U of Ark, or anywhere else, for that matter.

You are quite often in the fraternity forums and I fail to see why you have any understanding of what goes on in Southern fraternity rush, yet you continue to post.

The chapter struggling at the University of Arkansas made very poor decisions previously regarding members. Close relatives of mine were in the chapter at the time the decisions were made. It also did not have the history or connections to back them up. It is a newer chapter (not the newest, but newer comparatively) which always kicks you in the butt. A successful rush requires connections (that is alumnae, which falls back on tradition) to encourage girls to go certain specific ways.

Sorry I ended up with a long post . . .
 

You will look in vain for a post from me stating why a specific fraternity chapter is not doing well. You will also not find me pontificating on a fraternity's "rush tactics". I am always very careful to state what I am basing my posts on - whether personal experience or simply an opinion. Just for fun I checked my posts in the fraternity rush thread I think you are referencing - while I address the question of racism and nationals vs. local, I can't find any that specifically address an issue of membership selection. So do let me know which of my posts you find uninformed.

Women often are a part of fraternity rush. Men are never a part of sorority rush (well, unless you count them hauling stuff in and out of the house.)The Grand Consul of Sigma Chi personally presented me with a badge replica for my work with their Theta Tau chapter, so it's fair to say that I was a little more involved with fraternity rush and life than the average co-ed. But I certainly don't hold myself up as the end all, be all of greek information. I know what I know, but am quick to state when I don't know something. Please - review my posts.
And quite often? I count 11 posts in one specific thread, and I'd like to know to which particular reply you object.

There is no doubt about my membership status or experience - can you say the same?

If you indeed had relatives in the chapter you are referencing and they discussed membership selection they have seriously violated their sorority's rules. If they were not members of the struggling chapter, but another sorority, then they really don't know what is going on in the other chapter. Hence my reference to hearsay and rumor.

It may well be that the struggling chapter had trouble because of some of their pledges. But that isn't what you stated. Every chapter currently at Univ. of Ark has active alumnae groups in the area - it may be that they weren't as active as other chapters' alumnae, but again, that isn't what you said. Alumnae in Alumnae Panhellenics are the ones who can help "steer" girls to specific chapters, I guess, but you don't discuss the role of APCs.

While the factors you mention can negatively impact a chapter's recruitment, they also can be overcome. I can think of several examples (yes, even in the SEC) where this is true. I've personally advised a chapter that did a complete 180 - improving on every level from numbers to g.p.a. to retention of pledges and members.

SWTXbelle, I'm always happy to read what you have to say and I think you do a fine job explaining why you think what you do. I also know from reading it here about your background of service, so I understand the range of experience you bring to the GC table.

That said, I also think there's usually at least a grain of truth in what Elephant Walk posts. For me, the truth he relays falls into the category of stuff I wish weren't true but may be.

Some campuses have several chapters that are so historically strong that it's hard for other groups to do as well because the strength is self-perpetuating. Girls go to college hoping to join certain chapters; those chapters have an easier time recruiting based on this reputation, they recruit top girls; the girls represent well on campus, the group is popular with other groups; the cycle continues. We all know this goes on many traditional campuses.

There's still plenty of room for other less historic chapters to do well. Other great girls go through recruitment and they can find a home and prosper in other chapters and make great grades be involved on campus, but their reputation is made more year to year and they can rise and fall based on shorter term trends because they've really got to rush girls every year without the advanced hype (or as much advanced hype).

So, if the second type makes a "risky" call during recruitment in the eyes of fraternity guys, (I don't mean in the eyes of sorority women or alumnae who hold the core values of the GLO high; I mean too many fat girls or ugly girls, or emo girls, or athletic girls or maybe too many minority members on a campus where "eekkk, we need to be old south") then it can affect the socials they are able to have or which groups will pair with them for homecoming or Greek week or whatever. And the lack of socials and discussion about why makes them less "popular." And then you've got tent talk during the next rush, and then they don't make quota, and then the girls going through rush report to their alumnae mothers that the chapter isn't good or isn't nice, and then the alum moms are less likely to keep helping the chapter, and then the decline in membership continues.

Some groups' status in the popularity hierarchy IS more precarious at some campuses. When they aren't doing well, it may be traceable a decision to go their own way and buck the traditional values of the campus which didn't end up paying off in membership. The "traditional" values of the campus in this area may stink and be antithetical to the core values that the NPC groups all seem to hold, but it's doesn't mean that the chapter is going to be able to prosper.