Greek Discrimination....
 

I'm a newly iniated member and even in the few months I've been active I've noticed that being greek can suck sometimes, I've had a few situations where I feel that I've been discriminated against because of sterotypes I can just list a few instances..

I was going around to local businesses in our town to get donations for our annual philanthropy event and I went into a local cigar shop who someone suggested helps with charity and I walk into the store dressed professionally with a sweater, collared shirt, clean cut, kakis etc. (somthing I might wear to an interview) and i introduce myself and say i'm with Alpha Tau Omega his first words were, "i'm sorry?" so i repeat myself and he says, "no i'm sorry to hear you're in a fraternity." i didn't end up recieving a donation from this owner because he said he didn't want his business associated with under-age drinking...YOU SELL CANCER!!! I'M HELPING HOMELESS PEOPLE!!! I was pretty pissed at that so I thanked him for his time and politely said, "Don't believe all the things you hear about fraternities some of us try and make a positive impact on the community." Also when I tried to reserve space for our event I was frustrated by the lack of attention they were giving me and at one point the secretary told me, "We have real charities to deal with." It was really REALLY hard not to freak out at this girl who was busy texting/helping me.

I was in class wearing my letters and I asked what seemed to be an intelligent question because i got stares from everyone in the classroom like they thought all frat boys had brain damage from crush beer cans to the scull. Even the prof seemed suprised when i spoke up. But in their defense there was a guy sitting next to me from another house passed out from the night before.

And that was just this week.

at a school with 3% greek population it's hard getting respect. do you guys have any experiences like this?

Yeah, it is just like that saying, "Looking in they will never understand, looking out you will never be able to explain," or however it goes. I'll tell you a story about discrimination for being Greek.

When we went into a hotel for our Officer's Retreat we had already put a $50 deposit on the bedrooms and on the conference room that we would be using for the majority of the day under our fraternity name.

The lady at the desk then asked for us to prepay for the rest of our stay and for it to be in cash. We looked at each other and said, "Well $300 is kind of a large money to carry in cash." We stepped back from the desk and assessed the situation while an older couple walked up and got their keys with just a credit card.

We then decided to say well we already put down $50 lets go ahead and just stay. So the lady then told us she needed to photocopy our driver licenses to give us hotel keys.

At this point we became upset and asked for an explanation of their policies and some written proof that this is how they conduct business. The manager came out and said they don't have a written policy but this is how they conduct business when they have people who they "feel iffy" about in their hotel.

Needless to say, we went to a different hotel that day. On a side note I told my mother about the story later and she said, "Well Mr. 'White male' welcome to discrimination. This is what goes on with people everyday."

There are definitely people who are biased against fraternities and sororities. I think the best option in these cases is to be as professional as possible, thank them politely and demonstrate what you are really all about. I think that, in the second post, leaving that hotel meant that you missed an opportunity to possibly change their minds and see just what polite young men you could be. All they really know is what they read/see in the media, which is often "Fraternity causes $XXXXX of damage at blah blah hotel", etc. Sieze the opportunity to help them see the other side of Greek Life. We can't deny that some groups have screwed up the reputation for all of us.

Hmmmm, interesting. We have cities campaigning to get our regional conference and national convention business, and convention bureaus wine and dine our national board. In fact, not only do they give us good discount rates on hotel rooms, convention center meeting rooms, etc., but in a couple of cases cities have donated thousands of dollars to our org. for choosing them. For example, Philly gave us a check for $25,000 to compensate for any added expenses due to it being controlled by unions.

The reason? We are known to drop mucho dollars at our national and regional meetings. In 1988, we spent so much money in San Francisco that they were able to retire their city debt.

The NPHC frats get even deeper discounts from hotels, because of the money they spend in the hotel bars. LOL

AGDee - I understand what you are saying, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place. I don't read and article about the Puerto Rican Day Parade where 208 were arrested and assume that anytime there is a gathering of Puerto Ricans arrests are eminent. Maybe I'm just an idealist?

Ladygreek - This was for the 9 officers in our chapter, not our national fraternity. Our national conventions certainly put a boom on the economy too I'm sure, though I doubt think we could fix someone's debt.

I understand, but even on as local basis we have no problem booking rooms for retreats, etc., or getting charitable donations. Major coporations such as General Mills, Cargill, Medtronic, etc. have never hesitated to support our charitable programs. Not to mention the support the collegiate chapter gets from the schools in their service area.

In terms of fund raising, I haven't really experienced that because it is a small town that the school is in, and they are fairly supportive of any organization (sports teams, community service, greek, etc) but I know that it IS hard to fund raise because it is a small town, not enough resources to go around.

In terms of classes, it is a fairly common practice to NOT wear letters the first few days or even week of classes, because members don't want to be stereotyped. The hope is they can make enough of an impression during that time to change people's minds. It works for the most part, but sometimes it does take a few conversations to change people's mind set's of what we're all about.

It is incredibly frustrating, but it goes with the territory, like AGDee said, it's a few org's/ chapter's that can ruin it for the rest of us. I'm sorry that you have to go through that, but you also realize the benefits of being greek, and hopefully your passion and desire to change people's minds/views will benefit the entire greek community.

Our school's pretty big on Greek so I've never gotten any discrimination ... except some annoying-ness from my younger cousins when I first pledged. They were all like "So you're goign to party all the time now, huh?" and I was like "what? no!" But then, they're in high school so they pretty much believe everything they see in the movies and tv about greek life.

If this is the attitude you have about this man's business, it's pretty pricklike of you to expect him to donate money to your cause. Plus, I'm guessing he would have expected to have his name displayed as a benefactor in some way, either on a program or on a t-shirt or something, and then your fraternity's name would have been associated with his "horrible" business.

:D

Greeks many times get no or little respect because of the stupid and ignorant things that they do and are hot topics on the local media.

Ergo, while not all the same, we are all lumped into one group.

With 3% of GLO of campus population you are in a tough situation as my Alma Mater is near those figures.:o

PM me if you feel the desire and we can compare notes.:)

I had a class once where there were only about 18 people in the class and only 2 of us belonged to GLOs (myself and an Alpha Xi Delta). The teacher was pretty nice to everyone, but one day we both wore letters to class (all the GLOs had to go a service thing inthe student center) since we had somewhere to go after class and we both noticed that he looked at us differently. Maybe it was a fluke, but it happened. he was one of those really OLD professors and probably had certain ideas about GLOs.

I didn't pledge Alpha Gam until halfway through my freshman year (I was picked up during COB). I had been actively involved in a religious organization on campus, and continued to go after I joined AGD. Within the first week or so, some of my "friends" stopped talking to me, and most of the people in the religious organization started ignoring me whenever I would go to the weekly meetings. Things will change when you go Greek, but you also find out who your true friends are.

For the record 20 years later San Francisco is hundreds of millions of dollars in debt! How do you do that in such short time?

Yeah! We've gotten to the point where we don't have to pay to rent out bars because our average tab is over $1200.

Liberal local governments have problems keeping their spending in check.

So do conservative federal governments, so the bulk of the last 7 years would seem to indicate.

I was at a convention in Chicago a couple of years ago for another fraternal org I belong to when a NPHC org had their national convention - it was either at the Hilton, or the members were staying there.

I was impressed by the way they conducted themselves. Very nice - decently dressed, polite...everything ANY greek member should be.

The real difference was yet ANOTHER convention being held that had something to do with gay rights or gay pride...umm...yeah. They had NO respect for anyone around them, were very obnoxious, intoxicated...etc....

The things you see (but wish you hadn't) at a multi-convention hotel....

the best thing we can do is accept that there is a stereotype and fight to improve our image in every aspect of our lifes. also remember that every little thing we do wrong is going to make the news first page and the good things we do will be on page ten of section d. its an uphill battle but i know im not the only one that thinks its worth fighting

I heart my TAR teammate.
:)
:D
:cool:

Lucky for you, you can choose not to wear your letters...
 

I think that you did just the right thing. You do not stay and spend your money in a place where you do not feel as though you are being treated respectfully. Bump staying and proving to them that you can be polite and respectful (I hear this rhetoric a lot on this board); why should it be incumbent upon you to try to disabuse these people of their notions. Most people, regardless of the evidence that they see to the contrary, will cling to their prejudices.

Additionally, before leaving, you should have made it clear that you would be sharing your experiences at that hotel with all of the greek organizations on campus, and that you would do your best to ensure that that hotel was no longer troubled by greek business. :cool:

Put simply, you do not support--in anyway--businesses and organizations that discriminate against you. If you do, they get away with the discrimination and they get your money too. :rolleyes:

Pricklike? I went into his business because an alumnus gave me a list of businesses who've donated in the past. I didn't expect him to donate, I don't expect anyone to, i just hope people have the decency and means to be able to help.

But when you compare the the benefits to drawbacks in greeklife the good stuff really outweighs this minor crap like some guy not liking the letters on my chest. I just feel bad that they didn't get the experience we did

You are really missing the point.

If you (either you personally or you as a group) find someone's business distasteful, you don't ask them to donate money. I hate Walmart, I don't care how much they've given in the past, I won't go in that store and ask them for money.

As you obviously find this man's business something repugnant, you shouldn't have gone in there to ask for money. Let another brother do it. If you as a group are against tobacco use, it's really hypocritical to ask a tobacco seller to help you in any way.

I don't know that he is the one missing the point. I didn't take his initial "you're selling cancer" remark as an indication that he found the business "repugnant," but rather just as a comment on the perceived irony of someone who sells tobacco worrying about having his business associated with alcohol. The man had given in the past, and the OP said he remained polite in asking this time, even when he was treated rudely. How is that pricklike?

BTW, I hate Walmart too, but I wouldn't hesitate to ask them for money if I thought they might give and it would benefit the community.

To characterize an entire business as "selling cancer" and then ask them for money is IMO extremely hypocritical, not an ironic comment. I would have the same reaction if he called Vera Bradley "those stupid ugly effing bags" and then went into a VB store to ask for donations. You don't criticize people and then turn around and ask them for money.

And like I said - more than likely, donors would have their names recognized somewhere. If I dislike the way someone does business, or what their business is, I don't want their money associated with my org in any way, shape or form.

As for Walmart, I would hardly be the first person to say "keep your money."

Yeah let these businesses give back to the community somehow.

But that has more to do with what "hating" a business entails. If a business is unhumane, harmful, has discriminatory practices, and so forth, I can understand organizations not wanting to solicit or receive their "dirty money." It's almost like selling out because some businesses will donate if they know they will get free advertising or recognition for contributing.

Yes. Thank you.

Thank you. Any plans to come back? ;)

For the record, the City and County of San Francisco's debt is due mainly to general obligation bond issuances related to infrastructure. Most of which has been mandated by federal and state law starting after the 1989 Loma Prieta and the 1994 Northridge earthquakes. To be clear, San Francisco's general bonded debt includes bonds for construction and/or rehabilitation of affordable housing, libraries, museums, parks and playgrounds, schools, fire and police stations and other facilities. And for what it is worth, Standard and Poor's considers San Francisco's debt burden as manageable and the economy stable. Many so called "conservative" local governments would love those ratings.

I took his comment the same way. It's like the pot calling the kettle black sort of thing. I certainly don't have a problem with tobacco or cigar shops, but if a business owner of one of those shops tried to act all altruistic about not wanting to promote substance abuse by minors... I'd absolutely feel the need to call out a hypocrite.

ETA: On the OP's topic (trying to steer the thread back) ... I've often felt like the "sorority" label has raised eyebrows from others. For several years in college I enjoyed philosophy and gender studies classes by a certain feminist professor and at one point asked her to write a letter of recommendation for a sorority scholarship. Mind you, I'd gotten all As (not even an A-) in all 4 classes from her and in the two upper division classes I had the highest GPA in the class. We had a good working relationship, so I honestly hadn't hesitated at all about asking for the rec. When I asked, though, she was like "I'm not really sure I can be involved in this because I really don't like what sororities stand for." I couldn't help but think that if only she would open her eyes to the fact that being involved in my sorority was about one of the most feminist activities available on campus for women to do.

Tobacco is a legal substance in the United States of America. Where is the hypocrisy?

^^ The hypocrisy is that perhaps someone who sells addictive substances isn't in the best position to be criticizing a group because of their association with substance abuse. Yeah, I do see the tobacco owner's point that it is underage drinking he didn't want to be associated with. Alcohol and tobacco are both legal substances once you reach a certain age, but honestly, I don't think its a very distinguishing fact for someone to rely on since tobacco companies have for years been associated with advertising aimed at underage users and it isn't as if the tobacco owner was being asked to sponsor a keggar or anything.

Splitting hairs based on whether substance abuse is by someone "of age" is only a distinction under the law (not morally or health-wise). I think that it is hypocritical for someone who profits off of others' substance abuse to altruistically criticize a group for its supposed association with underage substance abuse. It is like an alcoholic (of age, lets assume) criticizing a pot smoker because under the law one is legal and the other isn't. It certainly doesn't make the alcoholic a less toxic person or mean that the alcoholic is leading a healthier life.

It's not legal for minors. Just sayin'. (at the same time as Skylark!)

But if the shop owner doesn't want to associate his product with Greeks, that's his right, just as it is the right of the Greeks to chose not to frequent or recommend his shop.

This was not the sequence of events, which is what MysticCat was pointing out.

So after someone turns you down for a request (even if they are a dick about it) it's OK for you to denigrate their entire business? That's like saying it's OK for the kid outside our building selling candy bars to call me a stupid bitch if I don't want to buy one.

If you happen to be the proprietor of a McDonalds and tell the kid outside the building selling candy that the reason you don't want to buy their candy is because you don't like to support unbalanced nutrition... then yeah.

I am referring to an office building, not a McDonald's.

I'm confusededededed now. Maybe I'm just hungry. :(

^^ 33girl

Oh I'm so sorry, I thought you were drawing an analogy to the situation of a kid selling candy outside your place of business ... which I thought was a poor analogy and therefore added the necessary facts to make it a correct demonstration of the tobacco store/fraternity issue. I guess maybe not everyone caught that.

Which is one reason why you're mixing apples and oranges and why your analogy doesn't fit.

Go back and read the original post and note the sequence of events:

From his description, OP was at all times polite. Even when he was pissed, he was polite and managed a smile and a respectful response. He didn't, so far as I can tell, actually say "You sell cancer" to the proprietor -- he said that to us as indicative of his state of mind, his frustration and his perception of hypocracy. As to why he might have perceived it as hypocracy, what Skylark said.

I certainly agree with what DSTCHAOS said (how could I not ;)) about not wanting the money of businesses that are inhumane, unethical, etc. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Have you sold your soul, too? :eek:;)

This is where the issue of ethics is subjective. My undergrad and alumnae chapters did not, and probably will not, have alcohol or tobacco sponsors because of the conflict of interest, even if the event is filled with people of legal drinking and tobacco purchasing ages. Our events were/are mostly (legal and illegal) substance-free and the party fundraisers that were held at "clubs" did not need sponsors and were also not associated with the name of the sorority. Not everyone is a fan of seeing tobacco or alcohol sponsors listed beside sorority or fraternity's names because there is a stigma with such associations for many people. I don't know if organizations have national rules regarding this.