Eight Founding schools or seven? (Change on Wikipedia)
 

Someone who has the handle of gssmarketing on Wikipedia has made a number of changes to the Wikipedia pages for Gamma Sigma Sigma. You can see the total changes at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ldid=183385288 .

While some of them are relatively minor (putting periods between the letters of Project IMPACT) and appear to mostly or entirely in good faith, the first one is the one that seems most significant to me. The person deleted University of Miami from the list of schools which were represented at Beekman Towers and changed the number of founding schools from 8 to 7. Does anyone know why Miami would have been deleted?

For further information, these total changes represent the only things that the gssmarketing user has changed on Wikipedia.

Randolph Finder

It's still 8.

Six founding organizations.
 

The national website ( http://www.gammasigmasigma.org/gss_mission-history.htm) now talks about Six founding organizations and Seven founding schools. Guess the answer to number of founding schools is now seven.

Randy

I counted eight schools.

No, it's still 8.
That's my answer and I'm sticking to it. ;)

University of Miami doesn't count anymore, I guess. There are seven schools in the first sentence after the colon, UofH, BC, LACC, NYU,BU, Drexel & Queens.

I think I'll let a GSS decide if it counts.

Oddly enough, Alpha Phi Omega also has a history wierdness that could be used to change a number (14 founders) that is as ingrained as 8 schools is for Gamma Sigma Sigma. If you look at the Alpha Chapter charter (http://ww2.lafayette.edu/~library/sp...a/Charter.html), you'll see more names in the list of Brothers than those 14 listed as founders. I haven't quite figured out all of the names, but the third one on the first line of brothers is JC McCune, who according to the APO history book in the "Some of those who became new members approximately from the start of Alpha Phi Omega were"

According the the GSS Marketing director (a member of their National Board), it doesn't anymore. I started talking to her after she changed the entry on Wikipedia.

Honestly if you asked someone on the National Board, then why are you asking again on GC? :confused: Particularly if you already went to the National site and saw it for yourself?

It's right there in black and white. You answered your own question. In my mind, it's still 8 schools. If you read you'll see that the U of Miami group joined several years later; but it still makes them a Founding School to me because they were already included in that original group. So to me, it's STILL 8. ;)

However to clear this all up (and probably providing more information than necessary), we as a National body found that we needed to revise our history to clear up the years-old Ohio vs. Miami debate (you asked about that too in the past), and that puts it all to rest, as well as provide a deeper background into how our sorority was founded BEFORE the 1952 Convention. Our pledge manuals have been revised to reflect the change.

Proof that Wikipedia is NOT your friend.

I tracked down the email for the GSS Marketing director well after I had asked to Greekchat.

I'm glad that the history has been properly investigated.

I have found some of the Alpha Phi Omega National Magazines from the 1950s with some information on the fact that Alpha Phi Omega was helping in getting Women's Community Service Organizations in contact with the group at Boston U that eventually became Epsilon chapter. It goes go into more depth that that...

I'd love to see more GSS sisters improving the Gamma Sigma Sigma article on Wikipedia.

Well the reason why the University of Miami is not considered is because they didnt attend the last day of the convention which is clearly what we celebrate as our national founder's day. Being that they didnt attend, they werent in the number of women who finalized things. Yes, they were there in the original group, but if we celebrat oct 12 as our founder's day, then they should have been present. But I know that most of us learned that there were eight school, cuz I did, and most of us will continue to teach the eight school thing as well. Let's just make sure we totally understand the 7 and 8 school difference.

this is an old thread but I would like to add that I would think that since our organization has gone to the point of researching this to change our member-in-training materials and expanding our history that we should teach the correct information to our members with an FYI that "when I pledged, it was XYZ but the sorority did more research and it was actually XYZ" so you should remember the NEW stuff. clearly it has been backed by printed documents and so even if you were (and I) were taught different, we know better and i believe we should teach the accurate information ... just my humble opinion

I think that Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_Sigma_Sigma) has been updated to match the current member-in-training information. Hmm, I wonder what the group at U of Miami that went to Beekman Towers was named. (Even though they are *not* a founding organization of Gamma Sigma Sigma)

From the GSS National Archivist:

Eta was reserved at the 1st national convention in Chicago, but University of Miami in Coral Gables came into Gamma Sig as Upsilon in 1958, 6 years after the representative from U of M showed up at Beekman Towers.

Agreed.

What comes to mind is that a reasonable assumption would be that the representative from U of Miami was representing a female collegiate service organization (trying to use the appropriately wide description of the groups), just as the the representatives from the other schools were. I wonder if it was a Greek Letter Organization (like Alpha Gamma Chi, Gamma Sigma Sigma, Phi Gamma or Omega Service Sorority) or not (like Booster Squad or Women's Service Organization).

The representative from Uof Miami was from an organization called Sigma Lambda Phi, an sorority founded on that campus in 1950.

Googling for "Sigma Lambda Phi" and "University of Miami"..

The 1961 Ibis Yearbook page for Gamma Sigma Sigma at http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/.../Page_283.html says "UM's Upsilon Chapter was known as Sigma Lambda Phi until 1958, when it joined the national organization."

There is also a page for Sigma Lambda Phi in the 1955 Ibis Yearbook at http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/.../Page_260.html

Looks like strong ties with the Alpha Phi Omega chapter.

Page for GSS at University of Miami in 1960 at http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/.../Page_292.html

(other years, check out http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&n...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=)

Edited the Wikipedia page to add Sigma Lambda Phi.

I googled it so that I could get additional references acceptible to Wikipedia. Since according to one poster "it's straight out of the history", I'd love to reference the history , but until I get that, the google was to get a reference...

As for why I'm so interested in Gamma Sigma Sigma History, I'm on the National History and Archives Committee for Alpha Phi Omega. I don't feel that a full and true history of Alpha Phi Omega can be written without knowledge of how Gamma Sigma Sigma interacted with Alpha Phi Omega over the last 50+ years and that begins even before the meeting at Beekman Tower. I also took as a personal challenge trying to get the Gamma Sigma Sigma article on Wikipedia to be as good as I can make it, which in turn forces good references.

I love the fact that Gamma Sigma Sigma is doing a more complete job of researching its history and found the fact that some chapters in the past on their websites listed the eighth school as U of Miami and some as Miami of Ohio to be like nails on chalkboard... (Fortunately that's gone away)

The way that Wikipedia works is that no one "owns" any page. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...ip_of_articles . All editors with referencable information are equal. For example, I have just as much right to edit the page on France as the President of France does.

Having said that, I would much appreciate additional editing to the Gamma Sigma Sigma article by Gamma Sigma Sigma sisters. I'm sure there is a great deal more information that would be appropriate to add to the article *and* certain images on the Gamma Sigma Sigma National Website that would be wonderful on the Wikipedia page (such as the picture of the founders on http://www.gammasigmasigma.org/mission.html) can only be added with the legal permission of the Sorority or its representatives.

Also, I've been burned before in terms of assuming that a username on Wikipedia actually represented the truth about what the person behind the username was and I've found that there really is very little sure way of verifying that someone with a username of gssmarketing on wikipedia actually is someone on the National Board of Gamma Sigma Sigma.

I'm glad somebody from Alpha Phi Omega said this. Our interactions together are not really documented and I think they should be at least for historical purposes. I've been GSS for 11 years and I kept being told that we aren't as linked as we think we are; I've always disagreed with that.

I would agree, that was a HUGE argument and I'm glad it was finally cleared up. What was also cleared up was what the EXACT role of APO was in our founding as well.

EXACTLY. :D Can't go wrong with that!

Whether there are Links depends on what type you are talking about, of course.

Legal, none. (But then as far as I can tell the only ones for that are ZPBS)
Historical, considerable, but varied by both time and place.
Ideals, certainly.
Cultural, depends on the school, with both the type of school and the gender status of the APO chapter affecting the relationship.

I think all of these are recognized at the National Level between the two organizations.

Miami of Ohio is a great school, but not the correct one...

I would love to see what has been cleared up in terms of the Exact role of APO in the founding of GSS. As best as I can tell from the APO side, the Exact role of APO in the founding of GSS consisted of giving addresses and phone numbers to put women's service groups in contact with each other. I have seen *zero* indication that there were any APO brothers at Beekman Tower. I know that the APO National President was a guest at the First National Convention in 1953, but I don't know if GSS counts the founding as ending before the 1953 convention or not.

Whoops. An apparently incorrect assumption. (and certainly one without a reference).

Could you enlighten me as to who they are?

I'm very aware that I'm not a member of Gamma Sigma Sigma, however with Cherry Blossom Alumni Chapter currently inactive and feeling unsuitable as an advisor to either Alpha Eta or Zeta Sigma my options would be limited even if I wished to.

I have no wish to publish any information that is private to the sorority on Wikipedia. If I were to find a copy of the rituals of Gamma Sigma Sigma, my first action would be to call the 800 number in the footer of the pages on the Gamma Sigma Sigma National website.

1. Greater Baltimore Alumni Chapter is active...
Alpha Eta/Zeta Sigma - you'd only be able to join if you were going to school (which I doubt) at either one; you'd be able to serve as a faculty advisor if you worked at either school (which I doubt) but even so, that doesn't mean you are a member of the sorority
2. It is good to know that if you found a copy of our rituals you'd call... please do call if you find one, that would be interesting to say the least.

Hmm. I guess the creators of the website are intentionally trying to confuse then. I just located the image as being at http://www.gammasigmasigma.org/images/founders.jpg

I understand that, however for APO depending on how you count the founding, it ends either at the end of the day of the initial chartering, the day months later when BSA recognized us or even six years later when H. Roe Bartle took over as the second president from Frank Reed Horton.

So if the founding period for GSS is counted as something beyond just those three days, I thought it might include the first National Convention.

I'm aware of GBAC, but I didn't know if their area of coverage expanded when Cherry Blossom went inactive.

I'm a little confused by the statement that you made after that. Are faculty advisors members of the sorority or not? (And you are correct, I'm not a faculty member or student at either Alpha Eta (Howard U) or Zeta Sigma (McDaniel C), but those are my two closest schools with GSS chapters. (I live about 10 miles north of Washington DC.

Actually, the other option that sprang to mind on the idea of finding a copy of the GSS rituals would be to send it straight to Lynne Mowers. I know she has attended rituals for both of our organizations.

addressing several points...
 

Yes, maybe so. I am still not explaining this further.

We are not APO so it doesn't matter how APO does it. You know we consider our Founder's Day to be October 12, 1952 so why bring up APO in this discussion.

We do not have territories and boundaries for membership in alumni chapters. Period. Cherry Blossom at one point had a member in KY. We have 2 alumni chapters in the same city. I could go on and on, but won't as not necessary. Point - no territories.

No, faculty advisors are just that...faculty of the school...some schools require organizations to have them (faculty advisors)so our chapters have them...why would we give them automatic membership??? Don't answer that. But the answer is no, they are not members of the sorority; not automatically, if the advisor happens to have been a GSS in college and is now alumni, then obviously they are a member of the sorority and a faculty advisor. Also, if the chapter granted them honorary membership, they'd be a member but we don't have that happening all of the time.

Hmm. In regards to founders, it seems that the emphasis in GSS is on the organizations/schools represented at the Beekman tower, not the women who were at the meeting. But a picture like that would tend to emphasize the women rather than their organizations (not easy to tell from the picture which women are from where) so it might not be an image that would be particularly publicized... Might cut down on the degree of founder worship that you find in some GLOs...


OK, GSS's Founder's day is what GSS says it is...

No territories, but what happens if the membership of a Alumni Chapter keeps shifting in one direction (say Cherry Blossom kept taking members and meeting farther and farther south...) Limited to within the GSS District? (not sure if DC was in the District V or District IV prior to the District change at the 2009 convention.

Being a faculty advisor doesn't make one a member of the sorority. Hmm. At least for the social fraternities and sororities at my alma mater, the school risk management practices said that they had to have advisors at the rituals.

Territories... Alums have the right to join whichever alum group... we have no district/state/city/county/zip code/area code, etc boundaries. It is not an issue for our organization. As I said, we have 2 in one city alone. It may be an issue in other organizations, but we do not have any issues with that. DC was and is still part of District 4.

As far as advisors---we both know that we are not a social sorority and thus this is not even a point that should be discussed further. We have certain types of memberships and certain things that must happen to get one of those... the virtue of you being an advisor does not make you a member of our organization.

The photo is already out there for our members... I don't believe I've ever encountered one member that has "founder worship" over the photo. It is a photo, taken that weekend. I think members are more excited about the fact that the photo was found and shared than whether or not that is an actual representation of our founding members, etc.

Thank you for the information on District 4.

I find the situation about the advisors to be fascinating, but given the fact that I don't think the GSS National bylaws are in a publicly available area of the web, I'll just move on.

I was probably unclear in regards to the "founder worship". I've seen cases in various GLOs (including, but not limited to NPHC groups and Alpha Phi Omega of the Philippines) ascribing almost Demigod Status to some if not all of the original founding members of the GLO. I find the complete lack of this type of "founder worship" in Gamma Sigma Sigma to be very refreshing.

Well, certainly not legally, and maybe not as much historically, but ideally
and culturally I think there are quite a few. Some of our chapters were chartered with direct help from the local APO chapter (either morally or financially). We still have GSS and APO chapters that have a close relationship and work together all the time (although that's probably more evident with those APO chapters that are all male and both chapters have been at their school for awhile)


That's exactly what was cleared up. You probably already know about the APO meeting in Des Moines in 1950 and how they found about these different service groups. Maybe "cleared up" wasn't the right word on our end. It was more or less discovered after we started researching more into our founding.

Bottom line I feel our members appreciate finding out even more about Gamma Sig and even more importantly, we are all FINALLY on the same page about it.

In paragraph one, absolutely. Drexel, Florida A&M & Prairie View would be examples of those with strong ties...

On the other hand, its unfortunate that the chapters at Howard seem to have had a rough relationship at least in the last decade.



For Paragraph 2, When I can get my hands on it again, the Torch and Trefoil (The APO equivalent of Perspectives) with the minutes/results from the 1950 Convention in Des Moines does mention this effort.

Yay research! (And I swear if I find GSS chapter mentioning Miami of *Ohio* in their history, I'll let one of the GSS Sisters on greekchat correct them)

A faculty advisor is not the same as a Chapter advisor. Chapter advisors work on behalf of the fraternity or sorority, while a faculty advisor usually liaisons between the campus and the organizations.

In both organizations of which I am a member (Gamma Sigma Sigma and Alpha Xi Delta), only initiated members witness rituals.

In GSS, we consider chapter advisors and faculty advisors the same thing. We also have chapter consultants that ARE. Members of the sorority

True, because you must be a faculty or staff member at that respective institution in order to serve in that capacity. Yes, and the chapter consultants are beneficial in the respect that they are initiated members and are well aware and have access to the policies of the sorority.