"Dropping" your girlfriend (with a twist)
 

Ok, so I feel like Dionysus asking this, but here we go anyway....

We are now very much a more progressive society than when lavaliering traditions started. So, I'm looking for thoughts on this: Many fraternities have an unwritten rule, that when a girlfriend is dropped/lavaliered she is then allowed to wear his letters (mostly justified by the fact that most people would know that a girl wearing a TKE shirt was not a member). Also, I remember seeing shirts around my campus that had Pike letters with DZ superimposed over them, and boyfriends wearing sorority letters. So, what about girls with girlfriends and boys with boyfriends?? It probably wouldn't happen much, except on very liberal campuses...but what happens if you're XYZ sorority and you "drop" your girfriend who's in ABC sorority??

Thoughts, anyone? Oh, and I'll go ahead and give the "Fratty" answer, so they don't have to bother, "If I saw some fairie wearing my letters, I'd rip them off of him.":rolleyes::p

PGITY???
:D

LOL

This isn't directly related because in most NPHC orgs (if not all), non-initiates can't wear the letters.

But I have already put my best friends on notice that we WILL sing the sweetheart song to my husband at our reception. I also told them they more than likely have a few years to get used to the idea, but to get ready now. :)

hell no.


oh wait. i thought this was about my chick wearing my letters.....

:doh:

I don't see the problem...though the only Greek lesbian couple I know is in the same sorority, so it's really not an issue there.

I'm with fantASTic--I've only known one Greek lesbian couple, and they are initiates of the same sorority.

People would not KNOW a girlfriend of an ASA was not an ASA...therefore, she shouldn't be allowed to wear highly visible letters. I do believe one of the girls in our chapter lavaliered her girlfriend, but she didn't wear letter sweatshirts or her ASA jacket. And I don't even know if the lavalier was actual letters or one of our symbols.

I don't know if any co-ed groups lavalier their significant others, but if they do they would have this same problem.

oohhhh, i didn't think that was allowed! i know in LPsiD, we are open to all women, but we specify that a relationship with another sister is grounds for forced deactivation (of both members). it's just too messy.

I know you didn't make the rule, so I am not asking you to defend it....

I think it is wise to specify the relationships between initiates and prospective members because of the inescapable imbalance of power between Greek and Pledge.

But I don't agree with forbidding two people with an equal power balance from dating. Some things shouldn't be legislated.

I look at APO as an example -- straight people in APO can (and do) date, get married, breed, etc. I don't see why a same-gender couple couldn't also successfully be in a relationship.

Yes, it can get messy if the other members of the organization get involved -- that happens in APO, too.

I wouldn't be surprised if some chapters of APO DO have a no-dating rule. I know my sorority had a "no dating the sweetheart" rule but let's just say it had varying degrees of compliance, and no one would have ever been terminated over it.

I don't think most NPC orgs have had that issue come up enough to mandate anything to do with it, especially termination. There might be some individual chapters that have made bylaws against it, but I don't think they could turn termination papers in to HQ with the reason being that they dated another sister.

Good question, AF.

There was a lesbian couple on my campus, and each woman was in a different sorority. I don't recall either one of them wearing the other's letters as a lavaliere, but each had a shirt with the other's letters with "Sweetheart" written in script below the letters. It looked just like the fraternity's Sweetheart's shirts... I guess that's where they got the idea.

Interesting question. This is a situation where my heart and my head tell me two different things. I've seen plenty of girls wearing their boyfriend's lettered shirts/sweatshirts and thought nothing of it.

Since I don't have any problem with gays or lesbians, logically I shouldn't have a problem with a girl wearing her girlfriend's letters or a guy wearing his boyfriend's letters...but I do. I think the only reason is because it could be interpreted as that person being a member.

Except when you put a co-ed organization into it, I flip-flop on the issue and think it's okay for a non-member to wear their SO's letters. Or do I? Hmm, maybe not.

I think maybe I'm just a stickler for the importance of wearing letters since I don't even think New Members should wear them until their initiated. (Although my sorority's policy contradicts that.) If I saw a girl/woman wearing a shirt with big Kappa Delta letters on it I'd excitedly say, "Oh my gosh! You're a KD?!" If she replied with, "No, my girlfriend is." I wouldn't say anything about it, but it would bother me. Same situation but with a lavalier...I'd think "Aww, how sweet!"

Okay, so someone help me out here. Given my feelings about letters, why do I think it's okay for a girl to wear her boyfriend's letters? I hate it when I realize I have double standards.

i think that the rule was made because the founders didn't want to see a split within chapters if a relationship was formed and then broken up. i wouldn't pretend to know for sure though. it makes sense to me but then again, i'm straight, so it really doesn't affect me anyway :)

Understandable...but in my experience with the couple I previously mentioned, I can't see that happening. We're adults. They have a chaplain to help if something happens, and I think they wouldn't get the rest of the sorority involved.

I see it as discrimination to not allow it, and I'm not really a discriminatory sort of person. Except in recruitment :D

Are you trying to say that since you been in college NONE of your friends have had ANY drama with each other over a relationship?

Sorority memebers are still college women, and college women cause drama. It hasn't been a problem, yet, but if they BREAK UP - that's where the problems are going to come in...

No, you're right - but the girls that I KNOW are very aware of the situation they are in, and as they took a risk in coming out both as gay and as in a relationship, I think they were very prepared for what could happen. I don't think that they would allow a breakup to split the chapter, if only because they keep their relationship very discrete and very personal. At chapter events, they hang out together, but you won't see them holding hands or kissing. Many of the sisters had NO idea until they were told, myself included.

I think that their situation will make them act much more maturely IF they break up. But like I said, I am basing this off the ONE couple that I know.

For the most part, Greeks are adults and should behave as such. I realize that doesn't always happen though, so if a relationship fizzled out between two members of the same organization, I can imagine it would be pretty tense for a while. But, I gotta say, if Theta Nu Xi ever forced the deactivation of sorors who were in a relationship with other sorors, I might have to rethink my decision to join the organization because it certainly wouldn't be the sorority I thought I was joining when I pledged.

On the overall topic, non-sorors don't wear letters, so I can't imagine it being an issue. However, I would completely understand a "Theta Boo" t-shirt. :D

When I was advising the collegians, we had major drama when two sisters (in the same chapter -- MINE!) decided to be in a relationship. It was okay for a while, they even lived together...and then they broke up. It was a nightmare because the chapter was divided. Some girls decided that they were "Team E" and the others "Team S". "E" graduated, so the drama went down a little, but "S" remained, and to our horror, started dating "E2". The entire chapter got involved in that whole soap opera. :mad:

Thankfully, no drama there. "S" and "E2" both graduated and are still together 3 years later. :)

I think the hang-up is that when it is a female wearing a guy's letters you know she isn't really a member. You can't tell when it is another female.

And I know this might open up the whole double stitched block letter debate, but I don't have a problem with a girlfriend wearing a sorority lavalier or a date party tee-shirt or something, but a block letter shirt is something different. I guess if it is something that might be given to a non-member to wear it would be okay, but a member's only thing (like a block letter sweater) I might have a problem with.

Then again, I didn't really like it when my sisters wore their boyfriends letter sweatshirts around either. I guess it seemed TO ME like they were putting their boyfriends letters above thier own (by wearing someone else's letters).

I know exactly what you mean - it always kind of got on my nerves when girls wore their boyfriend's letters ALL THE TIME but only wore their own letters when they HAD to (i.e. rush, Greek week events etc).

Thanks, that put it into perspective for me. I didn't think of it before, but I just realized that even though I was lavaliered in college I personally never wore his letters while other lavaliered girls did. Looking back I think it would have felt strange and wrong somehow. (Although they wouldn't have actually been his letters since he's a Fiji.)

i'm not sure i'm saying the right thing when i say "deactivate". i'm referring to going inactive, but not actually leaving the organization. anyway, i'm pretty sure that as long as members were discreet and mature, this wouldn't REALLY happen, at least not in the group of women i talk to the most, but the rule is there as a backup for bad situations. that's only my speculation, though. i can't really speak for what the founders were thinking when they made it.

It is strange...
 

i dont let anyone else wear my sorority letters but i think you are so unhappy because you are not supposed to be gay. but i do like how you made your sweater inside out so he could be warm. girls would love a guy like you. too bad for us i guess.;)

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/sign/sign0023.gif

Whatever.

you guys are cracking me up. if it wasn't for the the ignorance of the original quote I would say you made my day!

hey, he hasnt been around long enough to get an ITY!


i don't have any real opinions on this. lavaliering isn't in my greek culture so it has no relevance to me. but, the liberal side of me says go for it!

question though: doesnt the guy usually lavalier the girl? if that's the case, would a lesbian be able to drop her letters on her girl? and a gay dude on his dude?

anyway, from what i know in GC, dropping letters seems like a big deal, almost like proposing... so id hope that the couple in question, would be taking it just as seriously as a straight couple. i'd expect if they were doing such, then theyd take it seriously.

I'm late to this thread and actually don't have anything to add, I just wanted to let AlphaFrog and Leslie Anne know that I'm totally stealing and saving the image links they used, so expect to see them in the future, I can foresee SO MANY applications for them...

Do you mean which guy or girl would lavalier the other? It depends on who's a member of a GLO. I suppose they could both lavalier eachother. It might also depend on which one is the feminine or masculine of the same-sex couple. (from my limited knowledge there's generally one of each in a same-sex couple.)
It depends on the campus. It's been discussed a lot around here. Sometimes lavaliering is a sign of a serious relationship and pinning is actually close to proposing. On other campuses, lavaliering could be close to proposing.

When I saw the image I posted I thought it was a goldmine. So, have at em, woman! :D

Hmmm...

I know of a LOT of guys who are gay in fraternities on my campus. Greek life is so big here that it isn't a big deal. None of them are "fairies" because they do seem just like regular guys and you wouldn't know otherwise. The few guys I know have made the decision to never go with guys from their fraternity because they are "brothers" and as one guy said "You just don't mess around with family."

For the most part, the members of the fraternity know when the guys are rushing. The campus here isn't really phobic and most people don't care much. The point is to find people who you can be friends with and will be good to one another. How much does sexuality play into that?

thats not even possible.

AlphaFrog, feel free to lavalier or pin me at any time.

You just want that snazzy antique pin I got for Christmas and my supercool peweter Crest lavalier.:p

That's not all I want. I also want J and M to sing the sweetheart song to me at District Day.

Should I bring a candle to pass to make it all official?

Which brings up another question, if you believe in polygamy and you have three serious girlfriends at one time, can you lavalier all of them?