"Fratty"
 

To steal another poster's post from a long time ago in a thread that got closed down almost immediately.

"I'm sure IU or Michigan or (Enter other large school here) may have strong greek systems, but its of a different sort. I'm sure they've got some successful groups, but the whole culture is not the same greek culture I enjoyed as an undergrad. If the best chapters at a particular school are filled with guys sporting hollister and abercrombie to go with their hair gel and lowered Honda Civic, I can't really say that the greek system is anything like what I consider good. One of my favorite things about fraternity life (in the south and a select few other places) is that some things are just classic. To start with, the fraternity houses. They usually are large and beautiful, with classic architecture and nice furnishings. Sure they get beat up sometimes but they are instantly recognizable, and aren't just any other house with letters put up and a keg on the porch. Another classic aspect is the dress. Contrary to what people may say, greeks in the south don't dress a certain way because they are blind lemmings, but because it is a purposeful and adult way to dress. I always liked knowing that if I ran into a congressman or CEO while I was at a bar or event (both have happened) I could make a good impression without looking like I was 17 years old and at a rap concert. I'm sure in some parts of the country you can wear a hollister shirt and cargo shorts and get away with it, but there are expectations in the south for how adults should present themselves. Another classic aspect is the presence of strong tradition. Look to KA's Old South for an example, or any strong southern chapter's regular formal in a historic city (Charleston, New Orleans, Savannah). We even enjoy different music. People from outside the south always comment on how weird the music we like is, but I enjoy the comments. On a recent trip a bus driver commented on the lack of top 40 songs played, but rather the abundance of Zeppelin, Dylan, Van Morrison, Robert Earl Keen, and Widespread Panic. We don't expect every chapter in the country to act this way, but I don't understand how people view it as a bad thing. What is wrong with promoting maturity?"

Ok. So?

I just wanted to start a thread discussing the differences between northern and southern fraternities, there seems to be a lot of bad blood there.

This should already tell you that this thread is not going to work.

The problem is that instead of "discussing" the differences, it just turns into attacking - which has really started in post #1. Your paragraph that you stole from your thread long ago is pretty inflammatory. If this thread continues past the first page, the terms "guido" and "redneck" will be used, and it will get ugly.

The difference = some are in the South and others are in the North.

DUH.

It sounds like you obsess overmuch with power and wealth in those vaunted Southern chapters. My personal view is that I don't give a crap what a member wears so long as he conducts himself according to the very high expectations of his active brothers and alumni. Who cares if he drives a lowered Honda? Who cares if he shops at certain stores in the mall? Those are utterly stupid reasons to consider oneself better than another person. Hair gel? Are you kidding me?

For all your hoity-toity holier-than-thou-ness, you seem to forget that part of having class is being able to not judge a book by its cover.

I guess you're a-okay with a serial rapist in your house so long as he only wears the pony, and other similar brands, wouldn't disturb his well-kept mane with any sort of artificial product, only drinks the finest single malt scotch whiskeys, and drives a late-model BMW and has an allowance from his parents which is high enough to maintain a fratty lifestyle?

There are excellent chapters nationwide. My own chapter is pretty southern-oriented, and yes, image is something we are conscious of (as like it or not, that has a direct effect on the overall success of your operation). I think, however, that our primary criterion in membership selection is character -- definitely not wealth or upbringing, and we do quite well.

oy. i'm going to go with DSTCHAOS on this one.

I feel like this topic continues to be brought up until northern greeks say "Yeah we suck. I wish we were just like you." It's stupid. There are going to be positives and negative about every system. It's life.

east, west; north, south; tomAto, tomAHto; potAto, potAHto; let's call the whole thing off!

The real point of all this "fratty" nonsense.

Guess what? If you meet a Congressman or a CEO in a bar...you both are in a bar! The fact that you are in a fraternity has nothing to do with that. If you make a good impression that could possibly reflect on you org but it's mostly an indicator that you haven't had too many drinks.

I agree that character is the primary criterion in membership selection, wealth and upbringing are minor factors for my chapter although I know that old row chapters at the SEC schools are very focused on this. We do prefer for our members to dress a certain way as to keep a certain image for us. We prefer dressing fratty to wearing our letters, people can just tell when guys are in fraternities and girls are in sororities here.
The main thing I want to know is are there any fratty chapters at northern schools? Being in Big12 country doesn't count either, I'm talking about the Big 10 and northern ACC schools here.

I didn't actually meet a congressman or CEO in a bar, I stole someone elses post. I did meet Charlie Crist at big daddy's once but I didn't want to disturb him.

If I ever met a guy at Penn State (there were 52 fraternities there when I was there) who called himself "fratty", I would have laughed in his face. And I don't get why you all want to play dress up every day and look the same -- don't you want to be distinguishable between houses? And couldn't perps just wear nice clothes and pretend to be in the "fratty" ranks? I always thought the good-looking guys in their letters or backwards caps looked great. I'd look askance at guys who looked like they got up "extra early" just to iron their slacks and get ready for class. If you can't "roll and go" and look good, I don't care what brand collared shirt you're wearing.

I think it was a general statement.

As I said before, I REALLY REALLY REALLY want some of these fellows to come to a Steeler game in full "fratty" attire/attitude.

Unfortunately, you probably won't get a good discussion here.

The yanks get immediately offended and tell us how we can't read because we're inbred.
Then we point out their lack of tradition and mediocre chapters.
Next they get all upset about how down south, when giving bids, we only worry about Dad's social status, and if you drive and American-made truck or SUV. (which is not true)
...and it's all downhill from there.

Haha, I won't make that mistake again. My date and I had trash thrown at us during an ACC game. She was wearing a dress.

Nothing is frattier than a wrinkled polo with khakis...

Yeah, but nothing's more of a turn-off than a pretentious guy.

Very well said!

I take it you're unfamiliar with Cornell?

Not all ACC schools are garbage, FSU, GaTech, UVa, etc. have respectable greek systems.
I love going to a game in a shirt and tie with my date wearing a dress, I can't explain why.
And the lack of tradition thing can be misconstrued, most fraternities were founded in the north but you have to clarify that you're talking about a different kind of tradition.

I'm glad that real southern girls aren't turned off by me. Why so inflammatory, I'm not saying I'm better than greeks from the north, just wanting to discuss the differences.

Also, the Ivy league is extremely fratty. It's almost unavoidable considering the circumstances though.

If you're still wondering why there's "bad blood" there...how about you read over your posts a couple times???


You aren't? It looks like that's exactly what you're saying.

For what? It's already been explained that the thread can go nowhere but downhill. Even your fellow "fratty" lover SECdomination has stated this fact. What you really want to explain is how your fratty/southern ways are much better because blah blah blah blah blah. The conversation has been held already. If you would like to engage in such convo, do so vicariously by reading the old thread that you referenced or striking up a PM conversation with SECdomination.

Co-sign to AF's post and not true about all Ivy League being "fratty" (a term I've never heard used, at least with any level of respect, up north) -- my father and brother were both greek at UPenn. And they don't fit your elitist, pretentious descriptors whatsoever.

I guess I don't see where you could have possibly gotten offended, especially the wrinkled polos thing...

There are exceptions everywhere, excuse me for being elitist and pretentious?

Also, the Ivy League is extremely northern.

Guess you answered that one. At least according to your own definition.

Being southern by birth does not automatically make you "fratty." There are plenty of guys from up north that would make solid additions to any respectable southern fraternity, we have guys from VA, NY, PA, MI, etc.
Thanks for cutting out the next part of my quote where I specified Big 10 and northern ACC schools...

The Steelers are not in the ACC. I don't know what the heck you're talking about.

It sounds like this discussion has been done to death and besides the entertainment factor, I don't see where this is going to go. I think most of those of us who went greek in northern schools recognize we had a different experience than many in our fraternal chapters down south. And speaking for myself, I'm extremely OK with that. I also recognize that had I gone to a southern school instead, I may not have been greek, based on what I've heard and the fact that I'd never heard of a "rec" until I was rushing on the INSIDE sophomore year. And I'm definitely OK with that too. So enjoy your "fratty" world and understand that we in the north had just as positive greek experiences as you are having, just different and appropriate to our schools and part of the country. And that's OK. Now go iron your slacks.

ETA: And I guess to 'answer' your 'question', yes, there were well-dressed guys in fraternities at Penn State, but it wasn't more prevalent than guys that wore letters. We used the word "preppy" then, though, NEVER "fratty" -- I can't imagine a fraternity man wanting to be called that...

Sorry, didn't mean to misquote you. I thought you really did want to know if there were any "fratty" northern chapters. I don't have much experience with the Big 10 or the ACC so I was just contributing what I knew from experience.

It certainly doesn't! There are pretentious people obsessed with status and material things (and only barely concealing their uglier prejudices) in every corner of the world!!

Was that at UMD by any chance? That sounds like us.:o

Shouldn't a moderator be a little less judgemental. You talk about these prejudices, which is exactly what you have against me for being a member of a southern fraternity.
I'm signing off to catch a plane to Michigan, where people are TRULY shallow and pretentious. People think I'm weird because I wave to people and am generally nice and outgoing towards EVERYONE.
I have never seen a message board moderator be as ridiculous as you, while many of the members on this board may agree with what you are saying (I hope they don't) you have insulted me and, in all likelihood 25% of the members of this site.

Here's a difference for you: KA at Maryland is heavily Jewish, African-American, and Asian-American.

It has nothing to do with you being a member of a southern fraternity. It has EVERYTHING to do with you acting like your chapter and Greek system is the closest thing to heaven and any chapter/system above the Mason-Dixon is shit for really stupid reasons. Trust me, there are Northern people on this board who have the same type of attitude and they've gotten called on it (by me and other people) as well.

If you like dressing up on a daily basis and the fact that your house looks like something from Gone With The Wind and stuff like that, no one cares. But when you point it out and act like what you wear on your back or where you live makes you better or more committed to your fraternity, you come across as a superficial asshat.