Idiots...
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=006

Just wondering what you all think about this. Don't worry about any non-greek seeing this and trying to bid because:

1. I'm pretty much sure that there is nothing in it.
2. I have a friend who set up a ebay account and bid 900 for it.

Just wondering your thoughts. I personally think it's funny that he says TKE members only should bid on it...like the idiot is actually a member...it makes me laugh.

If it was an actual ritual book (though reading the discription it doesn't really sound like it would be? but I'm not a TKE, so I wouldn't really know) I'd say generally most Greeks are against those sort of things being bought and sold on ebay... except for the Greeks that feel the need to collect other org's ritual info... 'cause they are out there

Hmmm. The seller clearly identified the book as the ritual, but it doesn't appear that the ritual is actually included. (But like t*p said, I'm not a TKE so I don't know.) I bet this isn't the ritual, and if it is, I think TKE's HQ would be able to stop the auction. (I *think* I remember another org stopping an auction under similar circumstances.)

It's possible that the book isn't ritual, but the seller identified it as such because:

a) He really didn't know

or

b) He does know, but is saying it's ritual in a sad attempt to get higher bids

This sounds like something that can now be obtained on some GLO's websites. I doubt it will actually contain the sacred rituals.

Sorry guys(and gals), looks like I need to clarify. I am a member of TKE. It is definitely NOT a ritual book. All it is, is the "pledgemaster's guide", available for free download on the HQ site. My friend set up a fake ebay account and bit 900 on it in hopes that others would raise the bid quite high, and the seller would be out of the cash. Kinda like scamming the scammer if you know what I mean...

*Looks like I posted while jmagnus was posting.

I agree that it doesn't sound like it contains the initiation ritual. However, rituals do show up on ebay fairly often. The last two that I know of went to members of those groups.

I also doubt that the seller is a TKE. Why would you sell your own ritual unless you didn't care about your organization anymore?

I have to add that while it's interesting, I think posting here about a ritual on ebay only alerts the collectors. Who do you think buys them?

ETA: I don't think the scam will work as planned. It will just go to the next highest bidder on a 2nd Chance, the seller will still make money, and some idiot will have TKE's pledgemaster's guide.

Does your friend understand that he could end up having to pay $900 for this??

It has to be a TKE ritual, it's only going for $20. Rituals are easy, EASY to get. eBay is one way to get them, but paying for them is pretty ridiculous. That's so, how does one say, '5 years ago'?

I don't know about other orgs, but DZ rituals belong to DZ, not the individual. Soooo...anyone who tried to sell one of our rituals would actually be selling something that does not belong to them.

Of course, this is also true for badges and people sell those all the time.

The seller posted a listing that may or may not be intentionally misleading.

Your "friend" knows the book is not real and yet, according to you, set up a "fake" eBay account and placed a $900 bid he has no intention of honoring.

As of a couple of years ago, you cannot set up a new eBay account without providing a credit card or other banking information. So either your "friend" has stolen someone's banking info, or that person- being the genius he is- has set up an account that can be traced right back to him.

The seller, at the worst, has created an inaccurate listing that will force him to refund the buyer's money when the item is not as advertised.

Your "friend" is committing a felony if he fails to pay for the item with a winning bid. If the bidding gets up into the 100s, you are looking at serious trouble. EBay can and does take action on non-paying bidders. The higher the dollar amount, the more severe. And right here in a public internet forum your "friend" has announced the crime. I am not saying your "friend" is headed to jail- that is most unlikely- but there are lots of lesser unnecessary turns it could take, like being banned from eBay or having something hit your credit report.

Or better still, suppose a fellow TKE bids over $900 for that book mistakenly thinking it is a ritual book and that he is doing a good deed? Maybe not everyone remembers the details like you and knows for sure that is not a ritual book.

Sorry, but this is almost funny (no, actually- it is very funny :) )

Trusting in the wonderfully wicked ways of Greek Chat, I expect there is someone out there who read this and plans to bid $899.99 right before the auction closes :D

A "friend" of mine just sent the seller a question. I'll let you know if "she" hears back from him and what he says. ;)

ooooh! That would be wonderfully wicked! :D

TKE HQ should be notified so they can take proper action.

Well, as jmagnus said, it looks like it isn't actually their ritual. Seems to me that it's just a print out of some documents from here:
http://www.tke.org/member_resources/chapter_operations/
No big deal if it's openly available. ?

Well that's not fair; making someone pay for something that they could get for free

Thank your "friend" for doing this because MY "friend" was going to do the same thing.
I don't think the seller misrepresented himself in his item description so scamming the "scammer" is a gross misrepresentation in itself. People who do this give eBay a bad name.

Just so we don't lose the link!

I thought of that too, then I thought... that could really backfire on someone if the guy didn't really make a bid that high. Also, I believe that I've read in the bidding agreement that if the high bid falls through, the item goes to the next highest bidder. I worried about that when I was bidding on auction after auction last year for a pink DS Lite (the things we do for our kids). I was worried that someone who won an auction that I had lost would back out and I'd end up with two. Therefore, that strategy might not be wise either.

Yes, it can backfire on you if he didn't actually place the bid or if he retracts the bid. Otherwise, if you're the second highest bidder it's optional. You get a "second chance" email and you can either accept it or reject it.

While I don't think it's a good idea to makeup fake IDs and make bogus bids on items, I feel like the seller is grossly misrepresenting what is for sale here in a sad attempt to make cash. None of that info is ritual. If it was, I'm sure TKE's HQ wouldn't have put that info on their website for anyone to download and print.

If he is really misrepresenting the item, eBay should be contacted to let them know about it.

And you'd be wise to tell your friend to retract his fake bid, eBay does not play around with that stuff these days and if somehow he ends up "winning", he may well be tracked down. I understand the anger at these things, but contact your national if you really think someone's selling your ritual, contact the seller to see if it's an honest mistake, or contact eBay if you think something fraudulent is going on. But fake bidding or bid escalation in general is a VERY bad idea these days.

That's good to know!

Not to offend anyone, but I am not that stupid. It actually is a friend, not me. Getting charged money I don't have or possibily facing criminal charges...not really my style. I'm the kind of person who would just report the seller to ebay (which I did). Don't get me wrong, it makes me really angry that someone is trying to sell something like this, but I wouldn't do something stupid. Although, I'm not saying that I didn't have a part in the suggestions;)

And no, I didn't even bother to email HQ. I've sent them things like this in the past and the response is usually quite the brush-off. Unless it is an actual ritual book, they don't want it (no money, archives are full, blah blah blah...) If collectors happen to see this and bid, good for them. In the odd event that they do win, they wasted their money to learn something they could have seen for free.

So yeah, I'll try to keep checking in with you all as much as possible and I'll let you know if I hear anything else.

Yup, everything is right there...for free.

UPDATE
 

I reported the item to ebay again, this time as possibly stolen. I imagine that a TKE member left this somewhere, the seller found it and decided to sell it.

I received an autoresponse from ebay saying I would receive a response in 24-48 hours which surprises me. Usually I get the autoresponse telling me that "ebay will not be able to inform you of the outcome due to our privacy policy", or something to that effect.

I gotta ask- why do you care so much? It's not secret, any Joe Schmo can get this information off your HQ's site, and people sell stuff on ebay that they don't know about all the time. If some poor sucker wants to pay for this thinking that it's the real thing and has the money to do so, I say let him. Heck, if I knew that someone out there was willing to pay for it, I'd probably put my Advantage up on ebay.

I'm with cuteASAbug on this one. Who cares? It's NOT ritual. How do you know it's stolen? How do you know the seller didn't print it off the TKE website and put it in a binder himself? Get a life, people. Go rescue a badge or something.

We had someone do this with some non-secret ASA ceremonies - try to pass them off as "ritual" on ebay.

Just because it has a candle, an open motto, and a Greek word or two doesn't make it a ritual.

I would think that there may be issues of copyright infringement, and well, eBay doesn't take kindly to that. Of course I am not an Intellectual Property Lawyer, or a Patent Attorney, but TKE HQ may want to call upon a brother who is. If the item for sale is what is available free on the website, and the one link to the "Black Book" has a copyright of 2007 at the bottom, then maybe eBay should be notified.

Okay, so "my friend" received a response from the seller.

This is what "she" sent to him:

"Dear ctoucey63,

Not harping at you. (I'm sure you've gotten plenty of that.) I'm just curious why someone should pay for something they can just print off TKE's website?"

He responded with:

"That's a good question. My friend who's a TeKE is posting this item for sale. I'm not familiar with their rituals or history."


Hmm, isn't it nice that we all have so many "friends"? ;)

why does anyone even give a shit? worry about your own fraternity/sorority

Because the OP started with this:
And ended with this:

I think people care because they have the "What if it happened to me"feelings on it.

The greek community should really be a united group considering the stereotypes and problems we have to overcome.

By the way, its not our ritual book. But it is making money off of copyrighted material.

True that Day13!

By the way, my friend retracted his bid when I showed him this thread. It still ended up going for like $120 though. It went to some stupid collector. I checked his feedback and viewed the items he bought in the last 90 days...stuff from all kinds of different fraternities and sororites. Oh well, it's his money wasted. Maybe next time he will think twice before bidding on something that he shouldn't have access to in the first place...

I know I'd want to get my hands one it and find out about the mysteries of the TKExperience (see left hand page in the second picture on the ebay page).

Oh, you mean the little thing with the Goat?

What does the GTO have to do with this?

I believe it was a joke that went over your head.