Students with Disabilities and Greek life acceptance and access
 

An article in Berkeley's Daily Californian touches on a couple of interesting topics:

* Greek housing -- whether it's adequately accessible for people with disabilities, plus the costs and difficulties of making modifications,

and

* Greek acceptance -- whether fraternities and sororities are accepting of people with disabilities.

http://www.dailycal.org/sharticle.php?id=27027

Food for thought and discussion? (Without going into the ritual and private side of membership selection, of course.)

this young woman could not possibly know the real reason that she was not extended a bid. it is unfair of her to assume that she was not offered a bid due to her disability.

Anecdotal but as far as acceptance (only dorm housing at my school and that dorm was handicap accessible but not safe to live in, no first floor rooms):

I've never seen someone in a wheelchair come through recruitment, but I've seen PNMs and members with visible disabilities including my own sister who was born without her left forearm.

I never heard anyone discount someone for membership over a disability and there was never that sort of attitude displayed by the NPC orgs on my campus. That said, I don't know if there weren't PNMs in wheelchairs because they weren't interested or because they didn't feel comfortable, or because they didn't think we'd be interested.

She didn't assume that initially, it's that nagging doubt in the back of your mind... you don't want to think that that's why you didn't get a bid, but what if? And then someone else mentions a similar doubt and it grows.

Just because it's not overt, doesn't mean it's not there. Of course, it doesn't mean it is either.

BS, how how high is the hem of your skirt up?:mad:

Yes, the reason She was not invited was because of her infirnative!


She was not in the fit! So, what does that mean to you?

[quote=Tom Earp;1554278]BS, how how high is the hem of your skirt up?:mad:

Yes, the reason She was not invited was because of her infirnative!


quote]

What have you been drinking?

Sexual harassment much?

We don't know that one way or the other

That in addition to being classist,drunk and tacky you're ablist.

This is my surprised face.

Most people don't get bids when they're going through rush a third time as a senior.

Saying that you were "denied" a bid shows an unwillingness to understand that rush is a mutual selection process - as if a bid is something that someone owes you. We have no idea how she conducted herself during rush or anything like that. This article is completely one-sided.

Actually, the last half of it is quite the opposite. There's one person's belief that her lack of a bid is based on her disability, a discussion of the difficulties she had with Rush due to the inaccessibility (which is the school's/panhel's fault IMO), why ADA doesn't apply to Greek houses, how they're working to upgrade them anyway, and one person's experience as a fraternity brother with a disability- he still has trouble sometimes, and awkward moments, but his brothers are supportive of him.

I find this article to be poorly investigated. The Delta Gamma house at UC Berkeley is wheelchair-accessible and has been since a DG member became disabled after joining. (This happened some time prior to 2000, when I started advising there.) The house has a ramp to the front door and has a bedroom on the main floor of the house that was especially built for that member and available for use by any member or guest who cannot make it up the stairs to the two higher floors.

Furthermore, I distinctly remember a PNM coming through recruitment while I was an adviser there (so some time between 2000 and 2006) who was in a wheelchair. She made it very far in the recruitment process with DG and I believe she did receive a bid to a sorority (though I'm not sure if she accepted/initiated/later deactivated, since she did not join DG).

It is much more likely in my opinion, and this is coming from someone who sat in on those MS meetings for the other PNM, that this girl was not a good fit for any of the sororities on campus, with or without her disability. The conclusion reached by this PNM (and minimally implied by the article) -- that by not receiving a bid the third time through recruitment shows the sororities discrimination against her -- shows poor logic.

I read it. But come on! According to the article it was her third time rushing (correct me if I'm wrong), and she is a senior. From what I'm read about upperclassment going through rush, seniors are less likely to receive bids, whether or not they have a particular disability, and I don't think that the NPC is one to drop rushees just because they have one.

Let's take off the rose glasses, it's possible that the reason is because of her disability, and it's possible it's happened before. It's also possibly NOT the reason she was released.

As much as I hate to say it, I think that there are certain circumstances where a disabled woman MAY be denied a bid by all sororities on campus due to her disability, maybe not overtly and openly, and it could be under the guise of some other reasoning, but it's possible it could happen.

If it IS her disability that got her released, it makes SENSE that it was her 3rd time rushing, the disability is not going to go away the second time you rush like your horrible GPA you worked to get back up.

Whether or not she was discriminated against, I am sorely disappointed in the fact that so many Greek houses/facilities are not handicap-accessible. Shame on us that we need the ADA to help us do the right thing.

Of course, we'll never know why there are so few disabled people in the greek system.

That's a nightmarish campus to try to navigate in a wheelchair/on crutches if you ask me. Lots of steep hills, lots of multi-story buildings built into the side of the hill, winding streets, some without sidewalks...not good.
________
Marijuana Card

So true, I’m able bodied and I had a tough time getting around on that campus when I was visiting. From the looks of many of the houses that I saw it would not be an easy task to make them all wheelchair accessible. Take this from a guy who has spent quite a bit of time on accessibility projects. I’m not saying it couldn’t be done, I’m just saying I’m not surprised that it hasn’t been done.

While I do agree with you, as the article stated, many Greek houses are considered landmarks and are therefore extremely hard to have renovated. The landmark laws prevent any major changes to the structure of the house and most facilities would require an elevator or an addition to be ADA compatible. For example, my house would be a nightmare. There are stairs to everything. It is very unfeasible in many situations.

I can think of at least three people I knew well who had physical disabilities when they joined their respective chapters. I can't imagine a chapter not willing to make reasonable accomodations for a member they wanted to pledge. And you don't have to live in the house to have the sisterhood/brotherhood experience.

ADA covers all kinds of disabilities- not just physical ones. Should we make all our chapter houses peanut-free? Would we have to accomodate scholarship requirements for PNMs with ADHD or dyslexia?

Yes, the woman discussed in the article was senior at the time but she rushed 3 times prior. I would say it is safe to assume she was a sophomore when it all began--class standing most likely was not the only reason she was released when she was a sophomore.

And, yes, I know I am not an NPC member, but I do have an obvious physical disability and I can see where the young woman is coming from. None of us were in the MS meetings--we will never really know why, but one thing I do know as physically disable american, it is VERY difficult to put yourself out there knowing good and well you may be rejected-be it for whatever reason.

Things happen in younger grades that stick with you--that pervade your every day life and make you wish it would go away. Example: I have an identical twin sister (for those of you that don't know;)). She was always pretty popular in school and I was always just kind of her lacky. In the eigth grade a pretty popular guy in school tells my sister that she is really cool and that "your sister would be really cool too if she didn't limp." That was also the same year that all of my friends (including my sister) began picking on me because it became the cool thing to do. I was called gimp, cripled, crip and they would imitate the way I walk when they passed me in the hallway.

Yes, middle school kids can be very cruel due to their own insecurities, but those kinds of things have really stuck with me.

Yes, I found my way and have been very successful with my life, but those kinds of comments have alway stuck with me.

I guess I'm just trying to say that it's very easy for this woman to blame her disability. It's what she knows, it's what she's comfortable with and honestly, it probably makes the most sense to her. Because, I gaurentee she has been denied other opportunities based solely on that.

There is a possiblity she is right. I don't know. I know many disabled members of NPCs on my sisters campus-but none in wheelchairs. We just initiated a blind individual into my Phi Sig chapter and I guess I count too.

Gosh...I wrote a book....

I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that! Kids can really be cruel. I hope that we as greeks are more mature than to pick on or exclude someone with a disability, but like with all other traits deviating from the Miss USA standard, some chapters may exclude you based on any number of un-PC reasons. I agree that the third time the woman in the story rushed, she probably didn't receive a bid because she was a senior. BUT...who knows why she didn't receive a bid the first two times. We all know there are people who don't get bids who embody our rituals but don't look the part. There are also people who are ugly on the inside and out. Ha! I guess we'll never know the truth. It's easy to assume that greeks discriminate since there are few with disabilities in our groups, but it doesn't take into account the few that decide to go out on a limb and attend recruitment after having experiences like AlwaysSAI describes. I just hope that we would consider those that do attend recruitment in the same light as someone without a disability.

Not everyone has the funds to just up and renovate. Sometimes it's a fiscal roadblock to being more accommodating.

And has already been said, a lot of the houses at Berkeley (ours included) are very old and historic landmarks making it VERY expensive to upgrade/remodel. Capital campaigns are not easy things to get money for.

Disability
 

I have to add my 2 cents worth here about a fraternity making an accomodation. I have an adult son who is a high functioning autistic. He is the best person I have ever known and I wouldn't trade a nanosecond of his life for a million years of anyone elses'. Despite the fact that he doesn't often speak, he has a fabulous sense of humor. For example, his Dad is always trying to encourage him to speak and bought him a book. He asked him to open it anywhere and read. Jeff thought about it for a moment, opened the front cover, read aloud, "$24.95" and shut the book! We laughed for days.

When he graduated from high school, he was unable to attend college because he had other physical problems which would have prevented him getting around on campus, but one fraternity sent him a letter about rushing. I politely responded, letting them know that Jeff was autistic and those great guys continued sending him letters, which he read with a huge smile on his face. They made room for a disabled guy in their hearts and I will never forget that.

Jeff can live with his disability, but I don't understand how cruel people can live with theirs. I wish everyone had a Jeff in his or her life.

Paula M.
Sigma Delta Tau
ΣΔTPatriae Multi Spes Una One Hope of Many People

I think the reason why some people can't live with their disabilities is simply because it makes them feel like outcasts and very ostracized.

This makes me think of something I read the other day about a law school that had to go "peanut-free." (here is a link to a discussion on another site: http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/11/d...ating_witc.php)

Apparently, since many things are cooked in peanut oil, it isn't just about not eating peanuts. There are a lot of things off-limits, and even being in the same room as some of that stuff can send some people with severe allergies into a reaction.

I would never encourage discrimination, but I get the impression from many posters here that they are assuming most chapters could reasonably accommodate nearly every disability. The fact of the matter is that many chapters are simply not financially/practically able to accommodate for every specific disability that PNMs might potentially have. If chapters can accommodate, that is great. But any kind of blanket "we should accommodate any disability" statement is simply naive.

I think there is a difference between the chapter HOUSE accomidating someone with a disability and the CHAPTER accomidating someone.

At least for my school, if you couldn't go upstairs in the chapter house, so what? then you didn't see the bedrooms. All of the main stuff for people who didn't live in was on the first floor anyway. And our chapter meetings were held in classrooms, and those buildings were accessible.

As for why someone in a wheelchair was cut, we will never know since we were not in MS. But I have seen girls cut for all kinds of things that seemed stupid or petty.

I agree. My campus does not have seperate Greek housing for women. Because we're in the dorms, we're at the mercy of the school. Sure, seperate housing would be cool, and we've talked about it, but our chapters just don't have the resources on our hands, currently, to do that. There are girls with disabilities in our chapters, but I can think of at least two chapters that are housed in dorms without elevators. That's not their fault. It would be very hard on both the new member and the chapter to accomodate a woman in a wheelchair for instance. They would not be able to have chapter functions in chapter housing unless someone could carry the woman upstairs. The woman wouldn't ever be able to live on the hall, as her day to day life would be too difficult without an elevator. She would have a hard time participating in recruitment on both sides, as our campus is difficult to navigate even with all your abilities. This is a mutual selection process as well and it's just not fair to assume that is the only reason she did not get a bid. I'm not blind to the faults of the system, and it could very well have been a factor, but I strongly doubt it was the only one.

Maybe it is just me, but I would have a hard time asking a member to join a sorority with the understanding that the sorority is not willing to have her live in the house -- especially if many of the benefits of the sorority that her dues are used for are related to the house facilities. While it may be possible for the situation to occur and for everything to work out fine, it would be an awkward bid to extend, for sure.

As with many situations...it really depends on the campus. If her campus is one in which sorority life is not very prominent, or they don't have big, expensive houses, then I would not even consider that an issue. Even if the sorority DOES have a house, as long as the main facilities [not bedrooms, I mean like the meeting room and main areas] are accessible to her, she should not complain about the dues towards the house. Although it is not her fault that she is disabled, it is also not the fault of the sorority - and neither should be punished, either by not being able to extend a bid or not being able to accept one.

And generally speaking if someone doesn't live in the house their dues are less anyway.

Disability
 

What I meant when I said my son could live with his disability but I don't understand how cruel people can live with theirs is that a cruel nature is in itself a disability, worse than any physical or mental impairment.

Paula M.
Sigma Delta Tau
ΣΔTPatriae Multi Spes Una One Hope of Many People

I *think* I saw last year at Homecoming that our chapter has a member with a disability (wheelchair??) but I can't totally remember. Blame my bad memory on the festivities! ZTAmillz could tell for sure. While our campus has become more ADA compliant our house certainly is not, unless some door ways have been widened! Luckily, we mostly used student center rooms for meetings and I think they still do. My senior year a girl who was blind was living in the dorms and a lot of modifications were made to help her.

We had a girl in a wheelchair come through one year, and she was a friend of mine. We moved the entire recruitment into the fraternity houses, which were ADA compliant. We also never included any physical description of PNMs in MS other than "she had brown hair and wore a red scarf" or whatever. It's possible that certain sororities wouldn't extend a bid to a person with a disability, but for us it was just never a factor. I would hope that as educated women are progressive enough to understand that people with disabilities have as much to add to a community as someone without a disability.

I'm not a bit surprised, either. Particularly in the case of private universities, often, making the campus accessible is not the biggest priority to administration, which is a shame. When I graduated, our class's senior gift to our university was a wheel chair ramp into the chapel, which had been, from the time I entered the school, only accessible to individuals in wheelchairs or having other differences, if someone or many people could carry the individual into the building--I'm not kidding. It was quite ridiculous.

The idea for the senior gift was actually proposed by several prominent Pi Kappa Phis on our campus, one of which was in a wheelchair and also a Religion major. It makes me wonder--if he hadn't been there, would that building EVER have been accessible? I'm glad we have Pi Kapps on that campus, because they definitely "pushed" the issue into view. They are actually working in conjunction with KD and the House Board on the same campus to make our house accessible, since only one is currently--The Pi Kappa Phi House.

I agree with 33girl that no sorority owes her a bid. More than likely, her class status was her undoing for try #3 as a senior, and possibly try #2 as a junior. Anyone familiar with Berkeley correct me if I am wrong, but I imagine a good amount of sophomores go through recruitment and receive bids, so her class standing was probably not a factor in try #1 as a sophomore.

It's probably not the fact that she was disabled, but rather, how she dealt with it and/or approached recruitment. For example, my chapter cut a [non-disabled] PNM because we got the vibe that she was going through recruitment as a joke. If the chapters at Berkeley thought this woman was being insincere, like she was going through recruitment to "prove a point", that could've been a factor.

Maybe she had a rotten personality. Maybe her grades weren't up to par. We'll never know why it didn't work out for her.

My chapter house is very classic looking from the outside, and I think it is pretty ADA friendly, though I don't know the exact specifications. Our house has a lift on the exterior of the house to transfer people in wheelchairs from the main floor to the basement. You would go out the side door on the main floor and the lift would take you down to a ramp to the basement door. We also have a full bathroom on the main floor and a room next to it called the "date room". It has a closet that can be converted to a bedroom if we have a physically disabled sister wishing to live in the house. Right now, we just use the date room for studying.

Unfortunitly, people are not so nice!:rolleyes:

There are many disabilities out there whether is be physical, mental, or color.
Oh yes color, and I am sure I will hear about this from some on GC!

While the old Houses, not the GLOs do not have ways for those in a physical problem access, they are doing it. Our new House was made that way, by law, yes, but there is also another reason!

Not every member is the Biggest and Bestest looking of the campus!

There are people who can join a GLO that become a very important part of the Chapter.

We had a young man who was not okayed by some people and I raised 10 tons of hell!

I am proud to say He is a heck of a Brother and while moved from my Chapter, he has alligned himself within the city He moved to and another Chapter!!


That is being a Brother and a Member!:cool:

Are you saying that being of a different color (or race) is a disability?????

That's how I perceived it.

I really never can understand a single thing you post, Tom Earp! The typos, fragments and run-on sentences kill me!! I'm going to pretend you didn't mean that race can be considered a disability.

This post makes my head hurt.