vaccinate your kids, or else!!
 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/17/mar...nes/index.html

I know there are lots of moms & dads on the boards so I was curious what your thoughts were on this?

When I was in school, we were not allowed to set foot on the premises without immunization records.

I'm pro-immunization, and really I think it's stupid and irresponsible to not immunize your kids. The autism myth aside, bad vaccine reactions are nearly always better than getting the actual disease. AND there were medical/religious waivers accepted.

If a parent chooses not to vaccinate and the kids are out of school, it makes sense to impose penalties... they're contributing to truancy. I'm not saying this was an ideal situation, but it makes complete logical sense.

I agree vaccinating is extremely beneficial. However, I don't agree with the current schedule that has infants and children sometimes getting 3-4 shots (covering up to 6 illnesses) all at once. We accidentally delayed some of my son's vaxes and plan to use an alternate vax schedule for any future kids to where the shots are spaced out more and done when the kids are older.

I'm definitely in agreement that it's the responsible thing to do [to vaccinate children].

This came up on CNN this morning and a woman that was protesting the rule, said "these diseases haven't been around for a long time"

I'm not certain which disease she was talking about, but could it be there haven't been major cases because people have been getting immunized for the last few decades??? :o

Not having kids, I don't have an opinion myself, but I've heard this criticism a lot. One more thing for me to worry about when I become a parent.
One big No Shit Sherlock to her. It's right up there with "we survived for years without vaccines." Yeah, some of you did. People don't get the concept of herd immunity. If she was just endangering her own children, it wouldn't be as big of a deal, (kinda), but she endangers every child in that class. Vaccines aren't 100% effective, but when your entire population is "mostly" immune, you don't have outbreaks.

I do not want her collecting any disability for her kids when measles, mumps, and rubella wreck havoc on her children's systems... There is now drug resistant measles opportunistic infections in children in Africa due to malaria infections... Global Health...

this whole situation bothers me so much. its on the news here EVERY YEAR and you would think that parents maybe kinda sorta know that kids need shots. these kids have been out of school since late august. LATE AUGUST because their parents/guardians don't care enough about them to follow simple rules. There is no excuse. These people weren't there because they objected to vaccinations or had religious exemptions. They were willing to let their kids miss 3 months of school, for what? Shame.

There was even one idiot on the evening news complaining because she had to take the bus (taxi? something) out there. Why are you complaining about taking a BUS when your CHILD has been out of school since AUGUST. grrrrrrr.

I just can't go there. I know what the research has shown so far, but I also know of too many parents who can pretty much peg the changes they saw in their children to the time they got certain vaccinations. We can.

I'm not saying, nor will I say, that vaccines "cause" autism. I think we are likely to figure out eventually that autism is caused by a number of genetic factors that come into play, but I also think that we will find that many environmental factors, including perhaps some vaccines, can act as triggers or help create the perfect storm in some kids.

I completely go along with the reason for vaccines, but if we had it to do over again, I'm not sure what we'd do. I do think we would delay some of the vaccines at the least.

And that's why researchers are looking at the other factors, autism doesn't manifest itself until a certain age after all. It does make me wonder if perhaps it's a combination of the age, so the autism was ready to manifest, and the stimuli of getting a shot rather than the contents of it. Considering the dislike of many types of physical contact by autistics that could be a possibility. Don't know if any studies have been done down that line.

And really, I was referring more to those people who refuse to get little Bobby immunized because the internet told them about how it causes autism and refuse to listen to anyone else. At this point though, it can't be substantiated. Hell, maybe we're all wrong and it does cause autism, but if so there should be something to back it up, and some reason why everyone doesn't "catch" autism from them.

This has been a subject of much debate in my house. There is so much evidence on both sides that it's hard to know what to believe. I'm not a big fan of the way pharmaceutical companies seem to be trying to infiltrate every home, and it seems that, by requiring vaccines, the government is not only allowing this infiltration, but mandating it. So, that's frustrating. However, I understand why vaccines are important, and I'm all in favor of protecting our children from potentially deadly diseases.

I wish there were completely unbiased resources to turn to. Everything I've found seems to have some kind of spin on it, so like I said, it's hard to know what to believe.

As it is, our kids have gotten the required vaccinations at the suggested times. Fortunately, we've not seen any kind of negative reaction in either of them. If we had seen negative reactions, I'm not sure what we'd have done. And, since our younger child is still an infant (and therefore requires more vaccinations), I expect I'll continue to try to find a trustworthy source for answers.

I must admit, I'm glad to see that truant parents are being held accountable. At least, they're threatened as such (I've yet to see any indication that any parents have been sentenced to jail time for this). Given the fact that in this case, the government is allowing for religious/medical exceptions, there's no excuse for students missing so much school.

John is still due for his 9 month vaccinations, due to spending 6 hours at O'Hare when we should have been in Charlotte for his Dr. appt. I'm pretty sure that at 3, Mariana's past that critical point, but I'm wondering if I should do a little more research before getting John back on schedule.

MysticCat - What point/age did you notice a change in your son?

well...what a lot of people forgot also was also here in MD are a few factors to think about:

1. Right around the beginning of the school year...several of them had to be shut down due to several diseases and infections were found in the student population.

2. Sorry to say this but something to consider, I wouldn't be surprised if part of the population that hasn't been immunized are made up of illegal immigrants. One of my best friends are teahcing in a school full of kids who are otherwise not legal in the US and he tells me that a lot of the kids stay sick....we discussed this very topic last weekend and he said that Baltimore City will be next more than likely in doing the same thing.

3. Insurance.... a lot of people cannot afford to get these shots and some even refuse to go to the free clinic....why? I do not know...something else my and my friend discussed last week.

I know you were, and I see that point. My hunch, FWIW, is that some kids carry a genetic predisposition for autism spectrum disorders, and I think it's quite possible that some combination of enviromental factors (vaccines? diet/food additives?something else?) triggers that predisposition. But I think it is far from a simple answer.

Around 3.

And being the proud dad that I am, let me add that now, at 10, he is doing very, very well. He still has his challenges, especially with navigating social cues and non-verbal language, but he really is doing well. :D

Have you looked into Dr. Sears' The Vaccine Book? I haven't personally read it, but some of my friends have and they say it's one of the more balanced books on vaccinations out there. He does have a pro-vax lean, but is also for delaying/omitting some.

May I ask, was it a sudden change? Had he been a "normal" infant/toddler until that point? I think every parent worries most about that potential - their seemingly "normal" child just one day "changes" (for lack of a better word) into a completely different child.

I think it's wonderful he's doing so well, and obviously has a dad (and family) who care very much for him.

As a former PG County resident:
this happens every year. There are free shot clinics, notices sent out in every language imaginable and info sent on how to opt out of the requirement for religious or medical reasons.

If a parent has gone this long without getting the kid vaccinated, then yes, fine them or lock them up. We have this issue every year and I refuse to believe parents who say they didnt know about this. I also dont buy the argument that they cant afford it. If your child has Medicaid, its included in well baby/child checkups. If your kid doesnt qualify for Medicaid, the County always has shot clinics during the summer, during school, during breaks, etc. I think a lot of it is laziness and or ignorance on the part of the parents.

Mystic, I am sorry I am hearing that about your child. My professional opinion, the issue is how the vaccine is compiled together. Usually, most vaccines are heat killed bacterial proteins or total DNA vaccines. But most need extra carriers and adjuvants to "mount an immune reaction". It may be that some kids are being injected before they have Thymic education of CD4 and CD8 cells, for numerous reasons.

Maybe the mother's milk during breast feeding was not "primed enough" with essential nutrients no matter how much one has prepared.

The other issue is some of the products are made in places that fail to conform to US standards for human consumption... The adjuvants and carriers are impure or mixed with other compliations that are not ever to be mixed together... I.e. melamine in dog food...

Then we inject this vaccine into our kids who do not have fully functional immune system--that has not been thoroughly examined. It is thought that it takes 3 years for a human to develop the full immune system. That research was done in the late 1940's - 1960's... So, we are talking 40 years and well, vast advances have been made in immunology...

The other issue is increased allergies in humans. Nowadays, are there that many new allergens that babies no longer can consume their mother's milk or any milk? What happened to "natural selection"?

The best you can do right now is boost your child's health with several essential vitamins proven safe for developing children... I would "bathe them" with as much boosters as I could give them--organic, natural, pure, of course... It is expensive of course...

When my animals would have difficulty breeding, I would give them a 9% fat breeder chow. 9% included cholesterol and fatty acids... It is my understanding that autism may have fatty acylation issues...

Good luck!

I'm sorry, I have to disagree with that. Many undocumented immigrants actually do get their children's immunizations because they want the benefit of education, so I have seen many do what it takes.

But, just like US citizens do not get immunizations, so as undocumented immigrants. Interestingly, I would like to see the same rates in Europe. The Europeans have been exposed to many of these diseases for a millennium, so there are real immunity design issues that have been on-going.

Folks who refuse to get their children free shots have very little excuse now. Some of that may be laziness to care for their kids. Period.

we will have to agree to disagree...2 teachers I talked to don't lie... heheheh *wink*.

Yes, 2 is a highly representative number of the entire lot of teachers in this country. I'm sure it was a very diverse cross section as well.

DaemonSeid:

also, you have to look at the population of students where those 2 teachers are teaching. I think that assessment was a bit narrowminded. I see the point you were trying to make, though.

AF sometimes...you really should keep your thoughts to yourself...again...trying to look cute in front of your friends...is not cute.

I wasn't disputing AKA_Monet's opinion at all.


I heard one thing...she heard something else.

We both have 2 different sources and I am sure hers has verifiable information as well as mine (matter of fact, Monet one of my sources is a soror <and sis in law> of yours)

Get it? Agree to disagree (also known as saying that we both can be right)

Keep your peanut gallery comments to yourself please.

Thank you

and BTW...

Bowie MD and Baltimore City is where they teach nikki

Not to mention what really goes on in undocumented immigrants homes... I guess you would have that statistical significance and relevancy for a full double-blinded trial...

You can't agree to disagree on facts. Either illegal immigrants for the most part get their children immunized, or they don't. It's not a debate. It may be hard to prove, since there may not be much documentation, but it's not an opinion.

As for your "source" - anecdotes don't qualify as "verifiable information".

And if you think I feel the need to "impress" people or look cute, you obviously haven't read too many of my posts. I say what I feel like. Let me repeat that so you get it: I SAY WHAT I FEEL LIKE. Got it?

OK...


I wasn't saying it for you all to take that '2' to be a literal number as a statistical fact!

Yes, I would say it was a fairly sudden change -- not necessaily a night-and-day change but a quite noticeable change. It really was like he just retreated into a shell and just peeked back out. Later we could see that he wanted to come out, but had no clue how.

I'll agree about that fear. It's so hard to figure out -- has he really changed or did he just hit a developmental hump?

Well, his mom is a Kappa, so he's a lucky kid. ;)

Don't I know it! :D We've been doing that, and as I said, he's doing well. I think part of the reason is that we have been doing what you suggested.

On top of that, I think there are psychological/emotional reasons that we have seen improvement (which means an easier time for him navigating the social skills world). Plus, he (and we) have been blessed with teachers and school administrators (yes, in the public school system!) who value him, who want to see him succeed, who are willing to try and understand how his mind works and use appropriate strategies with him, and who identify his strengths and play off them to help him with his weaknesses. But those things are another thread.

But, yeah, what you describe mirrors along with my (completely unprofessional) thoughts about it all. I have described it as "the perfect storm" between a pre-existing disposition and triggers that set things in motion.

I can't hear you...remove your foot please

Verifiable information? http://www.pledgepark.com/images/smilies/laughing.gif

But that's how stereotypes, distortions and rumors get started and proliferate out of proportion.

We are about dispelling myths on GC. Everyone can agree to disagree with facts. Quips and puns in this discussion is not a joke to a lot of folks around here...

and if you are posting that pic ...(in leiu of said 'argument') ...what does that make you?

It's called "Keep it Moving". We all know you can't take criticism of your shoddy arguments. It's the same old story. Get on with it.

Since when does "agree to disagree" mean the same thing as saying "we're both right"? It can just as likely (or more likely) mean "I'm right, you're wrong, you're not going to change my mind, and you're hopeless, so let's just move on." :p

Let me know if he catches a cold or something and how fast it clears up, I have a theory... You know how children catch things? And as always, follow your normal course of healthcare with your child--please do not withhold it!

All I want to know is the time he comes down with symptoms, what was his mental state, then when the issue became resolved to "normal" (with or without direct medical intervention). You can PM me.

It could be a cold, a scrape or bruise, cut, boil or sty--anything--so if he scrapes his knee, and you put neosporin on it, how long did it take to completely heal to relatively normalcy?

SPECULATION: Are there immune system problems in autism?

Are you looking at the whole autism spectrum? Little MysticCat is Asperger's, and I love MysticCat's stories about him - he seems like such a neat kid.:)

Off the top of my head, it seems like he usually moves through colds and other illnesses pretty fast, although like me, he's a had a runny nose for a week or so now. Other than that, he doesn't get sick that often.

This summer he cut his knee and needed stitches -- it seemed to heal in about the time the doctors expected it to. (When he went to get the stiches out, the dr. commented on how nicely it was healing.) If I think of or notice other examples, I'll PM.
Thanks! He is a neat kid. Technically, his diagnosis is high functioning autism. Although even the professionals often use HFA and and Asperger's interchangeably and we find it's often easier to use Asperger's because more people understand what it is, there is a technical diagnostic difference.

Mystic...

what it means to me...IMO

in some cases there can be two sides to each story.

Your experiences and mine are not similar. But we may have beliefs and facts that form different opinions on a simliar subject.

Sometimes there is no one right or truly correct way especially since there may be different ways that give a positive (or negative...depending on what you are seeking) result on tackling a problem.


I may not like your opinion, you may not like mine.

I respect that you have one and if whatever works for you gets the job done so be it.

And it may even be prudent for me to at least examine whatever it is that you are doing because I may have to change and adapt to that way of thinking or doing.


For instance.... religion

^^^ That kind of stuff works with differences of opinion. It doesn't work with facts, statistical or otherwise, which is what got this whole "discussion" started.

You can be as earnest as you like in believing, say, that the world is flat. I'll respect your right to believe that and agree to disagree on the subject of whether the world is flat or round. But only one of us will be right.

But that was my whole point in my comment to Monet.

I wasn't basing what I said on a 'fact'

In fact...the comment that made that lead to this wasn't made to be taken seriously at all....maybe I didn't leave enough emoticons behind for certain folk to catch that I was jesting!

With your past history of using anecdotal evidence in academic discussions, no amount of smilies would suffice to imply you were joking.