sorority rush..I don't understand
 

OK, I know ima openin' a can of worms here, but I gotta ask...

Why so many rules? Why SO structured? Why do yall need 108 pages of rules just to recruit new members?(big green book) I am not slamming the system, or anything like that. I am honestly curious. I was an IFC officer for two years, and worked closely with panhel officers, and still never "got it". I understand part of it is women tend to be more egalitarian by nature, but dont you find 108 pages to be over the top? fraternities basically hang out with our prospective new members a few times and if we jive then cool, we bid. If not, we might direct the prospect to the org he might fit in with. sure, there's always gonna be rule breakers, but from formal panhel rush at my alma, there were violations, even with 108 pages of rules. You couldn't walk across campus after formal panhel rush without getting smacked upside the head by all the infractions charges flying around. So my point is this. It is hard for someone on the outside to understand why all the rules.

Quite simply put, the rules are there to insure a fair and impartial membership selection process for both prospective and current members. Yes, there are a lot of rules, but it helps keep the playing field level and insures that everyone involved in the process is given due consideration.

Barbara
Rush Forum Moderator

I agree with Barbara. I was a consultant for a while, and all the campuses I saw, the IFC had a much bigger problem with their groups thatn did Panhel and I believe this stems from rush. Fraternities colonize without thought to what is the carrying capacity at their school. They rush without regard to how many pledges each group gets, which then causes some groups to get very large and some groups to get very small. This does happen in the sorority world, but not as extreme. And all the rules are one way of saving some of those groups that are challenged. Okay, some of the rules are going to far, and it is getting like the government: too big and too hard for the average joe (or jane, rather) to understand. However, the overall structure is a great way to compare houses, compare prospective members and ensure as much as possible that the chapters and the rushees are all treated with compassion and protected for the future.

I found something interesting while surfing the other day - apparently, the bid/matching system that NPC sororities use is the same one as is used when matching prospective residents to med schools, and that it's as fair as possible, given the number of residents (women) being matched to schools (houses). The link was for a study that analyzed the matching process, to figure out if it was really fair or not.

If I find that link, I'll post it.

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Like Barbara said all the rules is to make rush fair for both the chapters and rushees.

But the biggest reason for the rules (imho) is also the biggest difference between IFC and NPC.

NPC's goal is for every girl on campus to go through rush and join a chapter. They don't care which chapter as long as it's NPC. (That's how it was explained to me by my sorority's National VPM.)

NPC does also work to establish guidelines for other concerns, like alcohol. But the number one reason NPC exists is to keep NPC existing. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

IFC, on the other hand, is in existence pretty much only to establish guidelines for alcohol, hazing, etc.

Why doesnt IFC incorporate the same philosophy as Panhel. Wouldnt it be more fair across the board for guys too? So that each chapter and the rushees on any particular campus are protected? Maybe its different for guys and we dont need as much structure in recruitment.

Whoops, I just slipped on a worm http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

I can see both points of view. The guys' rush is so laid back I can see where sorority rush would just seem mind boggling! And in some cases, I think it wouldn't be a bad thing to relax some of the rules. We have heard some formal rush horror stories on this board, and I'm sure there are some women out there who would be assets to any house that never go Greek because they just don't want to put up with the phoniness and stress of formal rush.

But on the other side of the coin, I think it would do the guys good to have to visit every fraternity at least once. I've seen quite a few guys who end up hanging out with another fraternity more than their own, probably because they never bothered to check out enough alternatives during rush.

What SoCal said about the difference between the purposes of NPC and NIC also has something to do with it.

I kinda feel the same way. But maybe not every house for the guys, just maybe like a certain number. Rho Chi's wouldn't hurt either. Or maybe not a PX but someone to just kind of guide us through rush. I guess thats what a rho chi is

Never in 100 years would I have just walked up to a sorority house & said "Hi. Let's hang out" Seriously. If rush weren't structured with rho chis, rush groups & schedules I never would have had the guts to find out about greek life.
Heidi

I'm not sure if the University of Iowa is the only school that does this or what, but the guys here go through formal rush the same time the woemn do. They have Rho Chis, they visit each chapter, they make cuts and the houses make cuts... their parties are just way more laid back.. they barbeque and talk with the members of the house... they do sort of a formal rush in an informal atmosphere.

Don't get me wrong, I have MANY MANY friends who are/was were and ever shall be panhel officers, chapter officers and chapter advisors, panhel advisors, etc.. So I AM TOTALLY IN FAVOR OF THE SORORITY SYSTEM. That having been said, about rush, I understand parts of it, and can understand the aspects of the process being geard towards helping the prospects. When I was IFC recruitment coord, I even created Rho Chi's for IFC, We just called them RM (Rush Monitors), but they preform the same functions as RX's. And many large traditional campuses (like OU) require their male prospective members to visit x number of houses. That's all cool. I guess the parts I don't understand is like, how the sororities (all this is only what I have seen at my campus) have to turn in all reciepts after rush, and can only spend X amount on rush, but you just get around it by saying "Oh, well, that is something the chapter owns." rtight, like your house really owns a gazebo that yall keep in your living room." Or that if the Panhel wants to set up a table at summer orientation, they have to have a rep from each org there, or none at all. Like if the AAA's don't care to show up, why should the BBB's not be able to attend the orientation, and possibly miss the opportunity to sell going greek to 200 new female students, because they couldn't have a table out there. I am not trying to stir up trouble, but I really dont understand why an org that works really hard to be the best it can be is only allowed to do as much as the meekest org can do? I mean if the BBB's can't or won't fufill their panhel obligatons, why not say oh well, and bring someone else who will.

or like the discussions here about suicuideing and then not being able to join for a year if they dis affilliate. (I have read the discussions, so I am not attempting to re-start them here). Why do some campus make references mandatory, when obviously it is SO stressful for some potential new members. Like how some girls will spend hundreds of dollars to get portraits done for rush apps. Or why rush app fees? Our IFC had to make money but we called it a grade release fee. so after they had decided to join they paid IFC the tarriff. But in a day and age when all GLO's are facing declining memberships, maybe we should focus on removing the barriers between potential new members and ourselves. Just from a marketing standpoint I would think that would make sense. Are the local panhels allowed much flerxability in enforcing the rules, or adaptingg them to fit their campuses?

Rage if you want, I am just trying to figure all this out. Everytime I'd try to ask local panhel about these things they'd look at me like I was a loon. Just remember these rules make sense to you, because ytou understand them and have operated under them for years. I am just trying to understand them, so whn I am asked (and I have been) I can defend the panhel system accurately.

I like SOCals' statement about as many girls, as long as it is a NPC soror. That makes some sense to me.

Like I said, ima just trying to understand.

lifesaver....

It all depends on the school you are at. The more competitive rush is, the more stringent the local Panhel is about the rules, and more likely to report infractions. At some schools, sorority rush is very laid back - no ornate decorations, no skits, etc. This is the "no frills" policy everyone is supposed to be moving toward, but if your tradition is to do it up fancy, and that's what the rushees expect, it's very hard to change.

Rushhhh
 

I don't understand all the structured rules either. I think some of the rules are just an excuse for rival sororities to get eachother in trouble for petty things. I like the fraternity way better, it's much more relaxed and allowing.

If you use them that way, that's what they'll be.

But SORORITIES have a lot of "petty rules," too. Like no drinking in the house, keep your grades up, attend meetings. And if the girls in your sorority/panhel want to use rules as an excuse to get each other in trouble........ that's what they're going to get.

I hope you're being facetious, because I don't think having to keep grades up is a petty rule.

My point is, if the girls want to be petty with each other on her campus, they don't need the NPC to do it.

Obviously I was being facetious. I don't think "no drinking in the house" or "attend the meetings you agreed to attend" are petty rules, either.

But then, I don't think the NPC's rules are petty to start with.

If the goal is to protect potential recruits and make sure every girl who goes through joins a chapter, why are there so many girls who do not get accepted and then are staunch advocates against sorority life? I'm not sure of any guy who wanted to join a fraternity ever being turned away. Even the problem guys join bcause there is some fraternity who needs numbers and will take them. I feel sorry for the hundreds of women who don't get accepted and I can see why they would want to start their own sorority or simply be anti-greek for the rest of their college years.

I know this post is old but :confused:

A lot of girls screw themselves over by saying "I only want ABC the top sorority" and refuse to look at something that might have a slightly lower status on campus. They have shown they don't want to be Greek, they want popularity whether they connect with the women (and vice versa) or not.

Sometimes there are girls who would be great but get cross-cut and don't bother to look into options like COB. Sorry, but if you're not bright enough to research your options (especially with so much more info than there used to be) it's your own fault.

Some women just find that they don't care for the Greek system as it is at their school, but they might love it someplace else. That's no reason to put down Greeks period....especially if it takes two clicks of a mouse to show that not all sororities even look like or are housed like the ones at your campus.

If all the sororities are full and many women don't get a bid...they can look into starting a new chapter. If some of them aren't full and Panhel is closed to expansion, rush as a group and turn that struggling chapter around.

And as for the fraternities who take the problem guys because they need numbers, I hope they are having a good time on their voyage on the S. S. Pathetic. Women are not quite so dumb as to do that.

I think it has a lot to do with the nature of women vs. men in the first place. Women, in general, are more organized and more structured in their lives than men, and I think it reflects in recruitment, and beyond.

I don't know about other guys, but I took my aim at DTD from the beginning. I was going to be a Delt or nothing because I related to the mission and values and I enjoyed the company of the men in the chapter. Does that make me a bad person to give an all or nothing persona? I don't think so. The point of recruitment is to find your niche and to join who you feel comfortable with.

I don't think this is anything but a false generalization. Having 108 pages of rules is more like psychopathy.

I am not a female, but I am more organized than my girlfriend. My office and tool shed can attest to that. While my girlfriend's makeup and fingernail polish is stranded throughout the house. She does the work in the kitchen and nothing is organized there. I found Nyquil in the spices section of the cupboard.

I can give you other instances of the complete opposite of what you have stated as something "in general". We can rectify it by saying some men and women are organized and some aren't, but can't say one gender is more organized than the other because it just isn't so.

No it doesn't... if you reread 33girl's post,you'll more than likely find out why.

I'm glad you only rushed the fraternity you related to because of their mission and value statements... and I'm glad you were able to join the brotherhood you felt was right for you.

However- when many young women go thru rush, say SuzyQ for example, they will only want ABC sorority because they are the "top tier" sorority on campus. They have the most mixers, with the best fraternities, they are the reigning flag football champions, they have the most homecoming queens, or they are just a popular sorority in that region (south, north, west, east).. whatever. Regardless of how or even *IF* SuzyQ connects with the women in that ABC chapter, that is all she wants and is unwilling to even consider a chapter of "lower status" filled with sisters she may actually connect to. In other words, she just wants ABC for the wrong reasons. For some people who join for the "wrong reasons", it ends up being a miserable experience anyway because they don't mesh well with the ladies who are already there, and may end up deactivating later. (Not saying it always happens, but it's definitely possible... esp. if the new member only joined for the "status" and not the people there)

Your reason for only rushing your fraternity and the reasoning of SuzyQ here are entirely different.

I'm not sure this reasoning justifies the use of the sorority's rush program (I use rush because it's not recruitment, it's rush). Now if the girl who just wants to join ABC goes through a traditional fraternity recruitment and has her eyes only for ABC but doesn't mesh with ABC or its values then members of ABC can sit her aside and say, "We think you're nice, but don't think you are a fit for our organization." The whole process is a little more personal and protects both interests. Having a girl go through a whole rush process and in the end get snubbed is not protecting her.

And this I guess is a side track to the whole discussion, but doesn't sorority rush process seem a little un-personal. I know for fraternity recruitment I'm sitting down with members and having discussions about what I get by joining and I present what I can give and there is real personal feelings going into it. In sorority rush, it seems like potential rushees are just herded around and nothing is personal.

It also seems monopolistic. Why not let other organizations on campus and have competition to get the best members. I'm sure numbers would go up for everyone because the members would have to work for what they get not assume a quota.

Using my example from before, sometimes if ABC thinks SuzyQ is not a good match for the chapter, she will be cut, and if SuzyQ doesn't want any other sorority on campus, she will most likely drop out of rush, so it's not like she went thru the entire process to get "snubbed" at the end. The NPC process is used to protect the chapters as well as the pnms. The chapters want to meet people they feel are a great fit with the chapter, and most of the pnms want to do the same. Sometimes women do fall thru the cracks, but there is always other opportunities for her to join NPC sororities thru COR/COB or to rush again, or to start an interest group to form another sorority.

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And this I guess is a side track to the whole discussion, but doesn't sorority rush process seem a little un-personal. I know for fraternity recruitment I'm sitting down with members and having discussions about what I get by joining and I present what I can give and there is real personal feelings going into it. In sorority rush, it seems like potential rushees are just herded around and nothing is personal.

Unless you've actually sat through an entire NPC rush process, you won't really know what we talk about @ the recruitment events ;) There are many personal feelings going on during the process, and the reason pnms are "herded" around is usually because the Panhellenic wants to give all the pnms the chance to meet all the houses... additionally they want all the houses a chance to meet all the pnms. At some of the larger schools there are THOUSANDS of women interested in becoming greek, and it would be hard to schedule a laid back event for one sorority to house that many women all at one time. While I rushed (I went thru COR) I talked a lot to the sisters about why I wanted to join a sorority... and they talked to me a lot about the positive aspects of going greek and joining ADPi. And (*gasp*) surprisingly it was the same way when I did formal recruitment the following semester on the "sister side".

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It also seems monopolistic. Why not let other organizations on campus and have competition to get the best members. I'm sure numbers would go up for everyone because the members would have to work for what they get not assume a quota.

You're using the word "seems" a lot.... because while it may "seem" that way, it is not entirely that way. Sororities participating in *ANY* form of recruitment - whether it be formal, informal, whatever, DO work hard to recruit the best women they can find to become members in their organization. I only wish I could go into full detail on number of things we do to prepare for recruitment and for our upcoming new member classes. I would be here all day.

Unfortunately you say you're so "sure" that numbers would go up for everyone, but that is not always the case. On any given campus there are only so many women even remotely interested in greek life to go around. If schools could just keep adding and adding sororities (or even fraternities) the number of potential members to go around (i.e. school enrollment or people interested in greek life) remain relatively the same unless enrollment numbers drop. So on a campus with 7000 students and all 26 NPC sororities, well, each sorority will only have a handful of members.

A prime example of this would be the school I used to go to. It was a relatively small school with around 7000 students. At one time our campus had SEVERAL chapters of different sororities and fraternities. After awhile, enrollment dropped enough to drastically affect numbers in all the chapters. Of all those GLOs, only 2 IFC fraternities remain. All the NPCs died out or closed, and their greek system just started rebuilding about 2 years ago.

It is basically a principle of supply & demand. If the sororities already existing get too full (this happens on a lot of campuses, especially larger ones with chapters that have over 200 members each) the campus panhellenic will usually decide to expand because there is obvious a big demand for room in greek life. If there is too much supply and no demand, the chapters will probably end up dying out.

True, it has a lot to do with the nature of men vs. women, but not in terms of organization and structure.

It's nothing more than a manifestation of the hunter/gatherer instinct.

Men (and male GLOs) want to join a fraternity (want new brothers), they find a particular fraternity (prospective brother) they like, they join that fraternity (offer a bid to that prospective brother).

Same thing with shopping: Man need shoes, Man find shoes, Man kill shoes, Man leave with shoes.

Women, given their nature, want to gather all the prospective new members and women's GLOs together so they can all interact with one another, nurturing each other in the confidence that the right fits will emerge and the right matches will be made.

Again just like shopping: Woman needs or just really wants shoes (or just really likes to look at shoes), Woman tries on 20 pairs of shoes and assesses color and fit and style and material and heels and ..., Woman might buy one pair of shoes, but not until she has tried on shoes at all of the other shoe stores.



Just joking people. :cool:

Sorority rush = not personal?

bwahahaha. Tell that to 50 sobbing Phi Mus at pref night.

The receipts and stuff are turned in because there is a budget, and it's one way to make sure it's being stuck to (Yes there are ways around it, but it's one way to check)
NPC actually WANTS rush to become less "frilly" (IE decorations everywhere, turing the house/room into a floral shop on pref etc) They want it to be more conversation based like most fraternity rush events. I"m sure they'd have a dance if they knew of a campus where potentials came to the house and just had a BBQ with the sisters and just kinda relaxed instead of being ushered into the house with cheering and hundereds of balloons and sisters in matching outfits. However, as we all know greek life is based on tradition, and most chapters run their rush like they have for years and years.
I don't really think it's a fact of the meekest NOT "being able" to keep up, but sororities don't really discuss their rush plans ahead of time, so if there were no rules (or starting point) your chapter could end up doing something very different during rush and it could set you apart from the PNMs in a bad way.
It's the same for things over summer (or anytime leading up to rush) all recruitment has to be panhellenic because at that point we just want girls to go through rush period and if all Panhell groups are represented then none can say that the group was recruiting for themselves, it's to watch your own back really.
If it was a perfect world, every girl going through NPC rush would get a bid and every chapter would have roughly the same amount of girls... but even with all this "equalization" there tends to be a few groups every potential wants and some won't join if they don't get them, and the sisters have a right to choose who they feel fits their ideals and chapter best, so if there was no equalization through the rules, then the big would get even BIGGER and the small would cease to exist. (it happens anyway, so the way we do it at least gives smaller chapters time to recruit mroe ladies)
It is hard to comprehend and not have your head spin hearing about all the rules, but I think it's a system that (pretty much) works. There are lots of changes being made this upcoming year with a bunch of new NPC resolutions on rush so we'll see what that brings, but it all comes down to trying to be fair and trying to get everyone interested in sorority to be in SOME NPC group on campus, when it's done right it works my school went from having a quota of about 10 around 4 years ago (and no group being at and having about 1 group reach it, and no groups at total for 10 years or so to having a quota of 27 and having two groups (out of three) take quota and one group take 21 with COB after and having one group with about 15 women above total.

HAHHAHAHAA. I laughed out loud at that... especially the "Man need shoes, Man find shoes, Man kill shoes, Man leave with shoes."

I have to admit I like the matchy-matchy outfits. I think it's funny and cute for one damn week.

bravo mystic cat
 

i love the shoe analogy. it explains simply and in a way anyone can understand and its true!!

we need to bring this back out about mid summer when pnms want us to explain the recruitment process to them.

I still stand by my previous men's nature vs. women's nature comment.

In general still doesn't apply to everyone. I know there are neat freak guys, hell, my dad's one of them. But I still think women are, in general, better organizers and planners of events than men.