What is hazing?
 

Anyone's thoughts on what is or isn't acceptable? Discuss.

This post is extra __________ because the OP goes by Haze4Dayz...

LOL... i am laughing so hard at work right now!

http://z.about.com/d/collectdolls/1/0/l/G/troll.jpg

ETA: because I'm getting in the holiday spirit! :)

I actually am just curious what other people feel is bad. That is all. Guess you guys don't really have an opinion then.

This part made me laugh. Have you looked at GC? The members definately have opinions about hazing. It's real easy to find them. There are about 2 million threads and posts regarding our opinions about hazing and what we feel is or isn't bad.

There. More accurate. :)

Yeah we're an opinionated bunch. Makes ya see the purpose of message boards. :D

Why even ask? Your stupid screen name tells everyone that you already know what hazing is.:rolleyes:

My limited experience on this board is that you'll get lots of platitudes and people spouting university policies and panhellenic agreements, but little actual discussion of how hazing was, is, or should be measured.

For most states, the question is moot. Look for the legal definition in your state.
And I've got to laugh at the idea that no one on GC has opinions, or that we only spout the university or Panhellenic line. (Although I will say most of us are indeed against hazing. If being against hazing is following the crowd, count me in.)

In many states, the definition is as ambiguous as our own rules are.

Truer words were never spoken.

In addition, common logic would seem to indicate that anyone asking the OP's question in this thread with that screen name would probably be looking for a fight.

We have enough of those in the normal day-to-day life of this forum without walking into that pile of manure.

Have a nice life. Good luck with your charter.

Opinion, please
 

If this is a new member's schedule for a week - no classes in session - and she's told she must attend ALL events ....

Is it over the top?

Friday, August 10
9am-5pm Check-in
3:30pm Orientation
4:30pm Walking Tour
6:00pm Parent/Student BBQ
7:30pm 2nd Orientation
8:30pm Group Meetings
Saturday, August 11
7:00-7:40am Breakfast
7:45-8:00am Group Meeting
8:15-5:00pm Events
5:00-6:30pm Dinner
8:00-10:00pm Ice Cream Social
Sunday, August 12
7:00-7:30am Breakfast
7:45-8:00am Group Meeting
8:15am-5:00am Events
5:00-6:00pm Dinner
8:00-10:00pm Evening Activity
Monday, August 13
7:00-8:00am Breakfast
9:30-9:45am Group Meeting
10:00-5:00pm- Events
5:00-6:00pm Dinner
8:00-10:00pm Evening Activity
Tuesday, August 14
7:00-8:00am Breakfast
8:15-9:15am Violence Prevention Program
9:30-12:00pm Pictures
12:00-1:00pm Lunch
1:00-1:45pm Group Meeting
1:30-5:00pm Events
5:00-6:00pm Dinner
8:00-10:00pm Evening Activity/Movie Night
Wednesday, August 15
7:00-8:00am Breakfast
8:00am Final meeting

Looks fine to me.

Do you mean a new member as in someone who recently initiated, or a new member as in a pledge? If it's the latter, who on earth is pledging that early in August?

This actually looks like a rush schedule, and yes it's a pain in the ass, but considering everyone is doing it (and the active sisters are doing WAY more than the rushees) I don't think you could call it hazing.

That looks like a college orientation schedule to me. What greek system has a Parent/Student BBQ at the beginning of rush?

The University of Idaho has a BBQ for parents and their students the night before recruitment starts. That looks identical to our schedule for sorority recruitment.

Here's the link, it is our schedule http://www.students.uidaho.edu/default.aspx?pid=101844 with some editing on DGTess' part. The fraternity recruitment schedule is on the same page. It works for our campus, and if you have a problem DGTess, feel free to contact Adrien with your concerns, her information is listed under Contact Greek Life.

The dates are irrelevant. I chose August to underscore my point that "classes are not in session."

I disagree that "everyone's doing it" makes it right.

I see day after day of 0700-2200 activity -- and failing to do so means failing the program.

I say it's hazing. I'm asking others' opinions.

DGTess, the sorority members put in as much time than the rushees, and they do MORE besides - they've probably had a full work week, plus they must participate in membership selection after the parties.

The schedule allows time for meals, plus I believe there are also breaks during the recruitment parties. There are also 1 1/2 - 2 hour breaks between dinner and the evening activities. These girls are NOT being forced to go from 7 AM to 10 PM without a break. Plus I'm sure if a girl wanted to skip a meal in the dining room or wanted to take a nap during "movie time" she's not going to get kicked out of rush. I see nothing on that schedule that says all activities are mandatory. Rushing is very tense and there isn't anything else open on campus at the time, I'm guessing - these are activities provided so they're not a) in their rooms stressing out by themselves or b) going out to fraternity parties or the clubs/bars off campus.

Yes it's a lot for one week, but this is how schools with large Greek systems operate. If they were to run rush during classes, it would be even worse.

I actually went through that recruitment schedule last August at the University of Idaho. It's true that the days were long, but I certainly wouldn't call it hazing. How else were we supposed to get through recruitment during five days? Besides, classes were not in session. In fact, nothing else at all besides football practice was going on at the time.

I do.

LOL. :D

Awww c'mon, a few swats never hurt nobody.:)

I'm amused at the terminology. It makes the proponents of hazing sound less like they're swinging paddles and more like they're batting for the other team... And I suspect they're among the population least likely to appreciate the humor in that.

Well, hey, I think that's pretty cool then!

And in response to Tess' original point, this is technically the PNMs' schedule, not NMs, and as Vandal said, it's not something that just they do, all sisters do it. So no, it's not hazing. It's just busy.

This looks more like college orientation with a "violence prevention" session - unless they are talking about aggressive "hot boxing" I don't see what violence has to do with rush. :)

Also, a planned movie night? What, before you pref you go to a movie in the student center with all the other girls rushing?

If this is a rush schedule, it's a really strange one.

It sounds like they combine rush w/ student orientation so the girls don't have to come back to school early twice.

As far as the movie, it would actually be after the pref parties. The girls are basically there on campus by themselves and I'm sure need something to take their minds off rush at that point.

That makes for REALLY long days! I would want to just go back to my room and get some sleep after days like this!

But, then again, back when I was rushing I had alot more stamina than now

It is very easy to be critical of our schedule and system when you don't have all the information. I can guarantee that there are breaks and "free time" throughout the day, both for potential members, and sisters on the other side. I can't count the number of times I've done something as benign as get a cup of coffee or to buy something at the grocery store and ran into PNMs. We don't have them locked up against their will, and how many schools have mandatory orientation sessions scheduled for their new students that is similar? No one cries hazing then because there is a lack of Greek letters.

One of the reasons "new student orientation" programs are worked into the schedule is because of bid day activities conflicting, and furthermore you have a captive audience, why not? Men are involved with their rush up until the Saturday before school starts, whereas the women finish the Wednesday before. Also, all women going through are housed on campus, and move into chapter housing on bid day, and need to be out for new students to move into their residence halls.

On a personal note, I am not a fan of recruitment before school starts or moving into the house on bid day for many reasons, but that's a whole different thread. I'd rather if we had to do it before school starts have women live in residence halls for the fall semester or the full academic year like our neighbors in Pullman do at Wazzu.

hijack...

What happens if you have a ton more women going through recruitment than you thought you would (i.e. you thought quota would be 30 and instead it's 60) and there isn't room for them in the house? Where do you put them? I'm guessing y'all have sleeping porches...

This question isn't just for VS but for anyone who has pledges move into the house right away (guys or girls).

/hijack

Yes, this really is a rush schedule. The violence prevention program had to do with date rape and basic campus safety. Recrtuitment at the University of Idaho is a combination of orientation and rush. The same program was presented at residence hall orientation, which girls pledged to sororities do not attend. It's importatnt to get the information accross, so why not include the program with rush?

During recruitment, there really isn't anybody else on campus. Also, PNMs are not supposed to be in communication with people other than Rho Chis and PNMs during the week to ensure that they make their own decisions in the recruitment process. So, the evenings contain planned ice cream socials and movie nights. They're not required, but they provide some activities for the girls to participate in rather than just hanging out in a dorm room that they'll move out of in a couple of days. It doesn't seem that strange to me.

OH, pardon me.

Didn't realize if everybody is doing it, it must be okay. If all the sisters are doing it, it must be okay.

Why, if one sorority were requiring this of their pledges, there'd be allegations of hazing.

But we allow systems to do it.

Forgot the difference. I'll be okay now. Just have to keep hitting my head against the wall to remind me what's supposed to make sense.

It's already been pointed out that it is not new members but PNMs that the schedule was created for. Therefore, it's a moot point as far as hazing goes. If so many people had a problem with it, it would have probably been changed. It sounds like it's been in place for some years now. Why are you so adamant about this? Are you personally involved somehow?

Also, all of those events aren't mandatory, they're provided as entertainment for a week of being at school, not being able to party (though I'm sure it does happen) and not being able to talk to the only groups of students on campus besides the PNMs. Did you not see the post mentioning that the fun activities were optional?

Sororities don't get accused of hazing for doing workshops with all of their members for hours just as long as these.

I asked that question before I moved here and there are a few scenarios.
1) New and initiated members live on a floor in housing, and often there is a rotation (so I've heard). I can only speak for my chapter, but I believe that many of the sororities have members change rooms every few weeks to meet new people. I also think it helps with keeping things tidy ;) This is both new and initiated members, and if there is overflow, sisters would rotate in and our of on campus housing
2) There are LOTS of apartments in Moscow, as well as rental houses (most are slums and there's a huge issue with City Council right now regarding how many people can live in a house and noise violations), so older members can live out if the beds are full. There is an apartment housing boom which didn't exist a few years ago, and honestly for women who don't like living in the chapter, this is currently in their favor with a full house. We have sleeping porches though, so there is a maximum capacity, though some houses have special rooms members sleep in.

In the few years I've been here I have never seen the residence halls at capacity, and that is with three specialty buildings closing, and having a fraternity live in one with a remodel and the Pi Phis this fall since their house is being remodeled after last August's fire. Also, quota has been roughly the same the past few years, and we had Kappa Delta colonize 10 years ago, and Theta did a recolonization in 2001. They built a new house in time for Fall 2004 rush, and before that had members living in the residence halls or elsewhere.

As far as the recruitment schedule goes, to the best of my knowledge this is planned by the campus panhellenic, but I am sure that advisers and Inter/National organizations give input.

Uh...breakfast, dinner, orientation, meetings, ice cream socials and movies? This is hazing? You've got to be kidding.

If those stating that this is a schedule for PNMs are correct, then it's really all optional, isn't it? If you don't want to join a sorority, you just don't do it. Seems pretty simple to me.

Yes, it's busy. So what? So is college in general, so is work, so is parenthood. If you don't want to be busy then don't join a sorority, don't go to college, don't work, don't be a parent.

It's not hazing; it's life. Participate or don't. It's up to you.