Rape At a Fraternity House Movie
 

Have you seen this one yet? Anyone local here more details? What do you think?
http://nypost.com/news/nationalnews/20943.htm

OK, you're a stripper, you do your job you were hired for with your partner, then you go back to a house full of horny guys alone? Stupid. Anyone who works in the "adult" industry should know better than to get themselves into that kind of situation.

Plus, if she's married and performing "sex acts" on people - stripping with no touching is one thing, but anything more than that??
This sounds to me like she is just trying to cover up to save her marriage.

What is with this trash newspaper and all their negative articles on fraternities and sororities? Do they distribute this amount of coverage to the charitable events done by greeks?

Just read the article, she said it should be mandatory for those who want to join GLO? Yeah, we should also make it mandatory for kids to watch Debbie Does Dallas. Geez, people got not morals and are very self serving.

ROTFL! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

This woman, who has a criminal record for prostitution, expects people to feel sorry for her in this situation? Some people go too far. And I'm trying to picture the Sunday before rush begins, and having potentials and their parents watching this NC-17 video. Right - GLO's would die right then and there. But I guess that would suit some people! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Allie http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif

I am HORRIFIED by some of your responses. No woman deserves to be raped no matter what she does for a living!! I don't know if this woman was really raped or not, but show some compassion.

ZetaAce

I agree that no person should ever have to go through rape. Believe me, it's a horrible thing to go through. But looking at the meager evidence in that newspaper article, well... It has nothing to do with what she does for a living but a lot to do with her behaviour. And if my rape was video taped and someone made a movie with it, I wouldn't attend the premier, I'd file a law suit. I seriously question her motives!

But earlier in this same thread you said:

Those 2 statements contradict each other. I'm not trying to pick on you, per se, but I'm amazed by the lack of compassion by some of the posts. That same attitude is why some rapists get off..."Well, look what she does for a living" or "Look what she was wearing". It's shameful! She's not the one who released the tape to the public and she has no legal recourse even though the footage was used. Maybe she attended the premiers because she was pleased that finally, someone looked at her side of the story instead of thinking "Well, she was charged with prostitution so she must be lying" (like the police did) or "I question her motives" because she allowed her story to be shown.

ZetaAce

I have to agree with Zeta, I have not seen the movie. So I don't know what happened. I do know that no one no matter their occupation or what a female is wearing does she deserve to be raped. I also feel for the fraternity members, if she is not telling the truth, those guys are being screwed. They faces are being placed with an alleged rape and that his a hard cross to bare. The makers of this movie make me sick. However her idea that anyone planning on joining a fraternity/sorority should watch this movie. Maybe anyone planning on going to a bar should be made to watch "The Accused". Ludicrous. Again I have sympathy for all involved but people need to quit characterizing greek this way.

Ok, hypothetical situation. A guy is busted with a pound of cocaine, goes to jail, and eventually is let out. Then, later is with a group of people who are busted for drugs, but he claims that he didn't know anything about it. How likely, given his past, are the cops to believe him. Another hypothetical situation. A woman gets busted for prostitution, get fined or whatever, and gets out. She then works as a stripper and claims to be raped. The alleged rape was video taped, but after viewing the tape the prosecutors office DID NOT prosecute.

The point here is that whether we like it or not, our past actions reflect on us! If I have a history of swindling people, a bank is not going to hire me, and with good reason. She is a former prostitute, and while that does not make her a bad person, or a lier, it does make me skeptical whenever she alleges a sex crime. She used to be a willing participant in crimes relating to sex! It has nothing to do with her being a stripper. If you can make money like that - go for it. I sure couldn't.

And one more thing... Prosecutors LOVE rape cases where there is an incriminating video. They would love to crucify any perpetrators they could. If, after viewing the video they decided NOT to prosecute, then the video must not have been to terribly incriminating. The article even called the video "highly ambigious."

As for rape itself, I understand what rape really is. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I cannot imagine watching a video of myself being raped.

I still question her motives. I don't understand why everyone else doesn't.

I can't believe how this movie was made without lawsuits all over the place. Just because the tape was used as evidence for a crime- it is o.k. to sell it off for $20.00 a pop? Why didn't the Delta Chi headquarters try to stop it? Yahraus' parents? King? Nobody cared and just let this movie be made and distributed? That is what sounds fishy to me.

Just some FYI's:

Florida has a "Sunshine Law" which made it legal for that tape to be released. (Not to say that it was right for it to be released, but it was legal).

I just read an article that stated that Artisan bought the film and is supposed to release it uncut and unrated.

Something to consider:
If it would have happened at just a random club/bar/house (i.e... NOT a fraernity house) would it change your opiniion of the film?

I think the filmmakers were presenting a very difficult situation to judge to that we could arrive at our own conclusions.

I agree with what Zeta Ace said regarding rape- no one deserves it regardless of their past or present situations. I don't anything about the situation or the film except a few articles I have read recently. I haven't seen the film, and doubt that I will.



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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com

Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

Of course no woman should have to go through rape, regardless of her profession, actions etc. However, the credibility of the accusor has to be looked at. I would be more than sympathetic to this woman if I believed she was raped, but given some of the things in the article, I don't think she was.

Plus, I have a real problem with the fact that she performed a sex act (I think we can probably all guess what) on one of the men. It is one thing to strip, and given she has 2 kids, she can probably make a heck of a lot more $$$ stripping than she could at McDonald's. But you strip, get your $$ and leave. You don't cross the line of doing "sex acts" on the spectators. As far as I'm concerned if she did that, she just slid right back into being a prostitute.

Quote-

"At times, King seems to be a somewhat willing participant in various sex acts with Yahraus. At other points, it appears she's having second thoughts about how far or how long she wants to go."

It does not matter to me where the act took place- I just hate to see a movie where young impressionable men will see this and who knows what idea about sex they will conceive from it. This is not a documentary about the horrors of rape. It is a movie about a woman who sometimes will be seen enjoying the sex and sometimes not. She feels she was raped and I am not going to disagree with her. But I just know in my heart this movie will be promoted in a sleazy way and not as a "documentary/learning" film.

So what? No is NO! Once she says no, no matter what she did before, it's rape. Just because she gave the guy oral stimulation or whatever, that doesn't mean he has the right to have sex with her.

ZetaAce

i'm also having an issue with the logic around here. does her being a stripper somehow make her less of a target/victim of rape? or maybe it's because she had a record of prostitution? ladies and gentlemen, this is why thousands of rapes go unreported every year, because the victims feel no one will believe them. and the part that's killing me is the conclusions are being drawn from ONE news article. so much for making an informed decision...

I think you misinterpreted my post. I didn't say she gave the guy a hummer so she deserves to get raped. No means no and rape is always wrong. I think we all agree on that. What I meant was her doing that leads me to further question her credibility. If performs sexual acts and receives money she IS a prostitute. Period. A reputable dancer (for lack of a better phrase) wouldn't do that. She would strip, take her $$ and leave.

Plus, I would wager that most strippers, dancers, whatever don't get intoxicated before performing. Especially in this sort of situation - a woman would be vulnerable enough, let alone if she had too much to drink.

One last time, rape is wrong and if this woman truly was raped my heart goes out to her. What I am questioning and have problems with is her credibility.

Sorry, but this is just some adulterating slut who wanted to come back to the house for some MORE action (after performing the acts) and then sue the popular fraternity. I totally agree with 33girl. Rape is wrong, but sorry she is a PROSTITUTE and I wouldn't believe a word she says.

I believe rape itself here is the catch word.

If she was raped then it is very bad. If she was not raped then she was very bad to cry it. End of story.

The law no longer allows extenuating circumstances. Therefore you could be in the middle of the sex act, change your mind, and if your partner doesn't automatically desists, voila, you have a sexual assault.

I am just curious that if some of her sexual activity was consensual and involved money, whether the words breach of contract may have been more appropriate than sheer rape.

Does it becomore more of a grey area where if you pay for ilegal sex and take more than is offered you are raping are stealing?

Ahh well the issue is to confusing for me http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

There are two very compeling and confilicting sides to this arguement. On hand rape is wrong, and any one who does should be put to death. On the other hand, is that not every accustion of rape is accurate, and it could turn into another Salem Witch Hunt.

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I have to wonder what these fraternity men (and maybe I should use that term lightly) were thinking hiring strippers to come to their house in the first place.

Even without the alleged rape, it raises questions about the chapter and what they represent.

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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com

Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

I agree!!! Watch the movie "The Accused" and then maybe you'll have a better perspective!

I worked for a prosecutor's office for a summer and a rape case was involved. They do NOT love to crucify perpetrators without hard evidence, and basically, if that's in a college town, it's a confession. Prosecutors have to cover their a$$es in case the person who claims rape is lying, because those accused of the crime can sue for unlawful arrest. Just wanted to clarify that point. Let's just say I know this from personal experience, although I was not the rapist nor the person raped.

Thanks!

OK, I've read all 5 articles and i've come to a conclusion: I can't say if she was raped or not. It was mentioned that at one point the camera was turned off. We have no clue what happened during that time. and i still say it's unfair to discount this woman's claim of rape just because she's a prostitute. it's unfortunate that there's no hard evidence to support or refute this claim.

Good info- thanks for researching it.

Silverturtle,

It would be PC to agree with you, however, in this case I do not.

Stripping is a job like any other and is only degrading (the perception) if the person doing it believes it is.

There is nothing that even remotely suggests, as far as Fraternity Principles, that it is improper to engage the services of a profesional dancer who takes their clothes off.

Nor is the fraternity house a kind of hallowed ground where such acts would be distasteful or forbidden.

Nor is it against policy to have consensual sex either in private or with watchers.

Rape is another issue.

Also, with the amount of money some strippers make, I am not sure who is being exploited . . . http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

James, I agree with you. It seems like if a woman can separtate a man from his money (or visa versa), then the stipper comes out on top - and the customer is a chump!

Allie http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif

James-

I am speaking here as a member of my fraternity's HQ. I can imagine that any fraternity (or sorority's) HQ would have a few things to say if they heard of strippers coming over to the house.

It does give a very specific impression outsiders. One that you don't want them to have, regardless of your personal opinion on stripping.

It's like that whole "drinking in your letters" topic- you might think it's okay to drink, but that doesn't mean you want all of your brothers (or sisters) out clubbing or bar-hopping in letters because of the image it gives others.

That being said- my point was not whether or not stripping (and hiring strippers) is right/wrong, etc. It was that it was inappropriate.

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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com

Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

OK, I've watched this topic grow the last couple days and I can't keep quiet any more ...

I was at UF when this incident happened, and I knew several Delta Chis well. People may not like it, but fraternities DO have the right to hire strippers. It's just totally inappropriate to have sex with them in the middle of the chapter house in front of everyone!

In my view, the guys just used terrible judgment here. They should have known the HUGE risk mgmt. issues associated with having the strippers in the house so late, drunk, having sex with the brothers, etc.

Unfortunately for everyone, it didn't end there. The stripper cried rape. Falsely. Keep in mind while you may be hearing about this tape now, here in Gainesville it's old news, a couple years old. Lots of us have seen that tape and everyone that has seen the whole thing agrees - she was NOT RAPED. If there was any real doubt, with so many people at UF watching it, don't you think SOMEONE would have said something?

To be honest, I've only seen a little of it because I walked out of the room when I realized what it was. As for the 30 seconds I did see, let's just say she's enjoying herself. And I know that "no means no", etc. but let's be practical, you can't happily start having sex, then in the middle decide he's raping you. Consenting to fooling around is one thing, consenting to sex is another. Once two people take that step, and they are in the "physical act", that's it.

The only people arguing that Lisa Gier King was raped after the tape was released were Ms. King and "Campus NOW" - a misleading name because they are NOT an authorized student group. Contrary to what NOW and our student newspaper (which is well-known for horrible inaccurate journalism) said, UPD did a fair investigation. After seeing the tape, they judged what took place as NOT RAPE. As for the supposed "missing parts" of the tape in the middle, let's use common sense: if you were raped, would you later that night have consensual sex with the same guy? I seriously doubt it!

Here's the ironic part - the tape they had to use to defend themselves got them kicked off campus. King accused Delta Chi of rape. To defend themselves, they gave UPD the tape. The tape showed the sex as consensual, but it ALSO showed a lot of other problems - drug use, underage drinking, hazing of the pledges, etc. That's what got them kicked off campus for the last couple years. Drugs. Alcohol. Hazing. Not rape.