Join APO after being in NIC fraternity? Reasons for and against?
 

I'm just wondering if any of you joined APO after already being in another fraternity or sorority? Or if you know of people who did this?

What were the reasons for doing this?

I know of a bunch of people who joined APO first and then joined another fraternity or sorority - some remaining active in APO, others not.

I know reasons for doing that - but how about going the other way?

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I am in a NIC fraternity, but it is a rather small chapter and our philanthropy is mostly non-existant :(.

I've been thinking about whether or not to rush APO some time in the future. I'm not a service obsessed person at all, but I would like to do some things and my NIC chapter definitely is severely lacking in that department.

How would my brothers take this if I decided to also join APO? I know that many brothers of my fraternity have also been in APO in the past - but I'm pretty sure that they all joined APO first.

APO at my school - while service based - seems very social. I had considered joining them mainly for the social aspect before I joined the fraternity that I joined. But this is just a thought in the back of my mind now.

I remain curious and intersted though.
If I do decide to rush, it would be Fall 2008 or later.

And another unrelated question: How connected to the Boy Scouts is APO? Do the Boy Scouts have a hand in APO?

I would appreciate any responses.

No one knows how someone else will react. Why not ask them and find out?

I'm just wondering if any of you joined APO after already being in another fraternity or sorority? Or if you know of people who did this?

I became an Alpha after APO. Sorry, but I don't know anyone who pledged APO second. (But I have heard of it and they had no problems.)

What were the reasons for doing this?

Of the people I heard of who did this, they really wanted to do a wide array of service projects and not just the one(s) their social/general GLO performed. They also admired the brotherhood (particularly if the chapter was coed).

I've been thinking about whether or not to rush APO some time in the future.

Go for it!

How would my brothers take this if I decided to also join APO?

I don't know your brothers....sowwy.

APO at my school - while service based - seems very social.

It's good that they enjoy doing things together -- that's definitely part of what being in Alpha Phi Omega is all about.

And another unrelated question: How connected to the Boy Scouts is APO?

Visit www.apo.org -- if you look around enough, you might even find our pledge manual there.

Do the Boy Scouts have a hand in APO?

They are administratively two separate organizations.

But with strong historical connections, right?

I do know lots of adult Scouters who were members of APO.

I can agree with that statement.

It's one of those issues on GC, so I like for people to read what APO has to say officially on the matter.

If you want to be in a group where service comes first, join APO.

DON'T join APO because your NIC group sucks and you want a substitute.

DON'T join APO because they "seem very social" and that's the component you're looking for first.

Great advice so far everyone.

No, I wouldn't join because my "NIC group sucks" - it doesn't and I didn't say that. It is, however, severely lacking in the area in which APO is most strong. I could no doubt bring back invaluable service ideas back to my NIC fraternity.

And if my NIC group did suck, what would be wrong with joining to try to find a substitute?


What would be wrong to join because APO seems very social? Not solely for this reason, but it is a big reason none the less. APO seems like a great place to meet people and I like the fact that it is co-ed. If I were to join, I would certainly take the service aspects seriously though.

No one else has experience with people joining APO after being in another fraternity or sorority? It does seem to almost always go the other way.

APO is NOT "I couldn't get into a social GLO so I'll join here."
APO is NOT "My social GLO sucks/I don't like the members/I don't fit in so I'll join here."

APO is an organization you join primarily because you want to do service, in an environment that also encourages brotherhood with those you do service with. The brotherhood comes about because of the service. I'm not sure what you mean by "they seem very social", but if they are having mixers and such with sororities, that's not cool at all.

APO is not a substitute for any other organization. To treat it as such is disrespectful. If you can't join it on its own merit you shouldn't join at all.

Sorry if I sound like a bitch, but this is something that really bugs me and it happens ALL the time.

I do appreciate your honest opinions and it gives me things to think about.

By social, I mean they don't just do service things together and go home - they hang out, etc. many even date. I didn't mean that they have parties with other greeks - pretty sure that they don't.

If I really and truly felt that my NIC group sucked, I think that I would try to join APO as quickly as I could. A great organization, a brotherhood, but different from NIC fraternities. If I hated my NIC, that might just be what I needed.

I know plenty of people, that while they enjoy service, a main reason for joining APO was to make friends or/and they have a lot of friends already in APO (as I do) that they want to become closer to. Is this so wrong?

Once again, I really apprecaite your honest answers 33girl.

Oh, yeah, they date. Guilty as charged :P . That's what I meant about it not being just service, but brotherhood also. My chapter had brothers who lived together, we threw parties regularly etc. I pledged because my friends were already members, but I wouldn't have joined if I didn't also really like the concept of doing service.

Like I said, I don't mean to come off as mean or discouraging, just that I've seen a lot of people who only joined 1) to put it on the resume 2) to meet people, and didn't give a crap about the service component and did everything to avoid it.

I think joining APO would be fine, but I would also see if you can correct some of the things you see that are wrong with your NIC group (size, lack of philanthropy) - you may find that what you're looking for has been in your own backyard all along.

I'll address these 2 questions.

The BSA has approved APO since the 1930s. APO is the ONLY college organization that the BSA recommends their youth to join when they go to college. The BSA includes info on APO in its literature, and about once a decade runs an article about APO in Scouting magazine. The BSA allows APO to have Info Booths at major scouting events (National Jamboree, NOACs, etc). The BSA has a member of the National Council on APO's Board of Directors, and there is a APO member on the BSA's Relationship's Committee.

However, APO recognizes that the BSA is not the only Scouting organization around, and that potential Brothers may be members of those organizations. And sadly, some APO Brothers may not want to work with the BSA. Hence APO works with other groups like the Girl Scouts and Camp Fire USA.

Each Chapter is free to determine its service program. Some Chapters have a strong service Scouting program with the BSA, some have a strong service scouting program with several scouting groups, including the BSA, and some have a weak or non-existant scouting service program.

The BSA has NO hand in APO. The two groups are independent of each other. The fact that there is a BSA member on our board does not change this. The BSA has representatives of many groups on its Relationship Committee for the same reasons, but it would be a mistake to assume the BSA is run by all those groups.

Can't we all play together??
 

Is having mixers with other GLOs so bad? When I was at OU, we'd do social events with other GLOs and they were fantastic! It helped us meet other greek groups and we ended up doing a TON of service with the PanHell groups, IFC groups and NPHC groups as well.

If we isolate ourselves from all other GLOs, we lose that part of ourselves....yes, we're a service fraternity, but we ARE a fraternity and one of our cardinal principals is FRIENDSHIP. This is something we should share with others, not just keep to ourselves.

Just my .02....:)

This is one area APO really needs to work on; they need to do a better job at, as I put it, weeding out all non-hackers that do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved frat. When we market APO as the all-inclusive frat, we get nothing but dead weight, resume padders, and letter-wearers. We need to start saying to folk "you aren't APO material. Go somewhere else."

Being more discriminatory on who we extend bids to or which pledges are allow to be initiated will show the campus that we mean business. I think all too often we are afraid to do that, because we don't want to have to defend our position. Well, if you document your prospectives/pledges activities and behavior, they won't have a leg to stand on and you'll be justified in your actions.

This is what happens when we pander to prospectives/pledges and wallow in political correctness to the public at large.

If we don't want to appear as a Greek lettered Circle K, we need to let some people know that they must earn the letters.

You are too right
 

[QUOTE=KAPital PHINUst;1539061]This is one area APO really needs to work on; they need to do a better job at, as I put it, weeding out all non-hackers that do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved frat. When we market APO as the all-inclusive frat, we get nothing but dead weight, resume padders, and letter-wearers. We need to start saying to folk "you aren't APO material. Go somewhere else."
QUOTE]

I haven't posted on here in a long time but I couldn't help but agree.

I suggested to my chapter, back in my college days, that we be a little more "hard" in the selection process. We accept whoever walks in the door into the org. Now, please understand that I don't mean only let certain people apply. I mean that no matter who applies, ask some serious questions, have an observation period, be more selective about the quality of who we let in our chapter, DO SOMETHING that weeds out who is here just to get a membership certificate and who is here to serve the chapter. We had retention issues, EVERY SEMESTER. I was getting sick of people pledging and then we never see them again because they weren't here for strong reasons. It was just something to do, for them. My pledge class had 16 people on it. The very next semester, maybe half of us returned, if that many, to be active.

My brothers were not interested in being more selective. They didn't want to seem like one of the council greek lettered orgs. They didn't want to seem like they only wanted to pick "popular" people or the "cool" people. They wanted to be inclusive and take EVERYBODY. It's not even about picking cool people or popular people. It's about choosing people who are going to WORK for APO!!

So, being outnumbered, I left it alone and the problem continued. Everytime I heard any comment related to "why don't members don't stay around" or "we need to improve our retention", I just shook my head.

I kind of don't understand.... for those chapters that have this issue, don't you have pledging requirements?

You certainly DON'T have to accept everyone who pledges, especially if they don't complete the requirements.

I don't believe in selecting who pledges, but I do believe in selecting who gets initiated.

We have requirements. Most pledges complete them just fine. There are some who fall short and then their big just cries on the stand for them and get it waived :rolleyes:

But if the cause of low retention wasn't can the person do the work, then what was it? That's where I was coming from when I said find out more about them before they get in. Do they plan to do this for a while or are they just willing to be here and do this for this semester, since it isn't that complicated, or are they really here for the long haul?

For most chapters, the only pledging requirements involves amassing a certain number of service project, and/or to execute a service project of their own. The requirements themselves are too easy for someone to "pimp the system" and get the letters. It really doesn't illustrate a person's willingness to serve in the org; it only gives a superficial sense of whether or not a person is worthy of being a brother.

I think most brothers don't want to have to explain to the sectional/regional director why a pledge didn't get initiated. And a lot of these pledges will run crying to the chapter advisor/SC/RD in a minute if they don't get in rather than suck it up and re-pledge.

(at bolded) I DO!! It keeps a lot of potential bulljive and needless subsequent drama at the door where it belongs.

Then you need to be active.

Let 'em cry till the cows come home. Save the sob story for someone else. The pledge can always re-pledge at a later time if they are deemed worthy of another bid.

If we are truly a fraternity, then we need to act like one. And one element of a fraternity is that not everyone is worthy of joining the ranks or will be initiated.

Simply put: Open membership means that any student from 18-80 can attend our recruitment functions and apply for membership without any regard for their personal status of characteristics. That's it!! They are not entitled to a bid, they are not entitled to be initiated. We do not owe them letters or membership simply because they applied, period!!

One thing I admire about the all-male chapters is that they tend to have a really good handle on how to filter out potential dead-weight and potentially problem members, (relative to co-ed chapters).

I think we try so hard to prove to the campus that we are not a social fraternity, we wind up not functioning as a fraternity at all, but more like a club. Clubs let anybody in, fraternities do not.

Let the prospective prove to US that they are worthy of joining, we do not prove to the prospective that we are worthy that they considered us for membership, and all too often we get that backward.

In what way? Be on sectional staff? Join an alumni association? Be a chapter advisor? Be more specific.

Don't forget, once you become alumni, they send you out to pasture. :p

Any or all of those things.

I've been active in some capacity since I've graduated.

Brothers, re-read our history. Alpha Phi Omega was FOUNDED by folks who were already involved in a NIC Fraternity. So, if someone wants to come to APO after being NIC, NPC, or NPHC, as long as they meet the requirements of that individual chapter to become a Brother - and they want to work and be of Service, so be it! I've been involved with a variety of chapters, and have had APO Brothers who've been NIC/NPC/NPHC as well as Alpha Phi Omega, and there has not been an issue. Several times, I've seen the APO Chapter President also be involved in another GLO, and it has not hurt the APO chapter; in fact, it gave the chapter more opportunities to cooperate and collaborate on service projects!

As long as a student can balance all their involvements *AND* their classwork, more power to him or her. As one of our former Presidents said, we should have "more Brothers on more campuses doing more service."

Eight of the fourteen including Frank Reed Horton were Sigma Alpha Epsilon, and Five were Krescents, a local Fraternity that joined Kappa Delta Rho within a couple of years after APO was founded. (And one Independent).

Many of the early (first 10 years) Alpha Phi Omega chapters when their charterings were reported in the fraternity magazine (Torch and Trefoil) reported which NIC fraternities were represented among their membership.


And I *certainly* would not recommend pledging both Alpha Phi Omega and a Social GLO in the same semester. Some things are just too ugly for words. :)

My point exactly: At many campuses the requirements are so simple and loosely enforced, the prospective's desire to work and be of service can oftentimes be illusionary. I am glad I came into APO at an all-male school, because quite honestly, if it was anywhere else, I would've pimped the system, got my letters, and left. Real talk. There would've been no challenge to get the letters, and no incentive to stay active once I got them. And all too often, that is an avenue that many college students often exploit because the chapters allow them to.

As far as fellowship and brotherhood bonding (and membership retention for that matter), what separates Alpha Phi Omega from Circle K?

[QUOTE=KAPital PHINUst;1539181]I am glad I came into APO at an all-male school, because quite honestly, if it was anywhere else, I would've pimped the system, got my letters, and left. Real talk. There would've been no challenge to get the letters, and no incentive to stay active once I got them. And all too often, that is an avenue that many college students often exploit because the chapters allow them to.

IF you pledged at a school with an all male chapter, you can't really speak on what happens in a co-ed chapter can you? You don't really know what our requirements are do you?

People have to remember that Alpha Phi Omega stands alone and we do what we do. I do not advocate Brothers pledging and then leaving, but I see too many people trying to treat APO like a social GLO and we ARE NOT. Stop trying to make APO what it is not. If you have a problem with how retention effors in chapters are going, then be a positive role model and make suggestions on how we can retain the Brothers once they become members.

To answer your initial post, I know several brothers who pledged NPHC first and APO second. The reasons varied...one person thought it was cool to be in a sorority and a fraternity, one person did it because a lot of their friends were members or APO/dated someone in APO. One pro would be you know that they are not trying to use APO as a stairstep into another org, they are familar with pledging, and if they are dedicated to their first org hopefully, they will be dedicated to our org. Cons include the pledge trying to compare APO's process to their old process and make changes that DON'T work in APO, them not taking APO as serious, not being able to effectively dedicate time to both.

We had this very issue this semester. A pledge failed to fulfill her requirements and she was not voted in by the brotherhood. It happens, and although it is sad when it does, it would have been worse for the chapter if they had allowed her in. I think, in her case, she was spread way too thin (she was in 3 or 4 other organizations, plus having a job and being in some sort of pagent, not to mention her classload as a senior) and adding A Phi O to the mix would have meant the chapter came out on the short end of the bargain.

I'm in agreement.....let all who want to, pledge. Be selective with choosing who is made a brother. If pledges can't show committment to the chapter as pledges, what makes us think they will as brothers?

Again, my .02.....

Hey all - I'm "pieceofpaper" (the OP) I couldn't remember the password or the email address that I used for it nearly a year ago.

I am now pledging my APO chapter.

Most of my social fraternity brothers are fine with it and most are being supportive. Actually my social fraternity has historic ties to this APO chapter. It was re-chartered by several of our brothers and we have often had members in it and several of our sweethearts were in APO.

^^^ Congrats on your choice and I hope you see it through.

Since the last time I posted on this matter, I became Sponsor for a Petitioning Group for APO. The original seven members of the group are all members of social fraternities and sororities, so you are in good company.

Congrats!

During the time that I was an undergradute brother, my chapter had one brother who was already in a social sorority when they joined APO, one brother who was already in a social fraternity when they joined APO and one who joined a social fraternity after joining APO.

In fact the one who joined a social sorority and then APO was simultaneously APO president and KKG pledge mistress during one stretch. Not something I'd have been able to pull off (other than the fact I am a guy :) ).

Actually, at Tennessee State, we've had quite a few brothers who pledged a social fraternity/sorority first, then APO. There was no issues.

i know on this campus i've spoken to a male who has pledged kkpsi then pledge Alpha phi omega nobody had any issues with that long as he does his what is needed

^^^ KKPsi isn't an NIC fraternity, which is what the OP was asking about

BTW, the OP posed this question in 2007, so I doubt he'll see your answer

oh well i only know about NPHC fraternities. Sorry for post and i know its a old thread

The OP swung back through under a different handle back in September, 2008 as well.

Randy

KKPsi is not a NPHC....:cool: