Are we open to women with children?
 

Let me try to take this topic in a more positive direction.

Are we sorority women really open to the idea that older students, some who may be parents, can be members and have a positive collegiate membership experience? I'm not too sure about that, except on non-traditional campuses. I don't think we're totally there yet.

My dad was in a fraternity at USC late 1950s and had many brothers who were Korean war vets who were married with children. My husband also had Fraternity brothers in mid80s who were vets and some that were just much older students. It didn't seem to be a big issue at all. But I couldn't picture a woman of any age married or with kids in a sorority during my collegiate years. is it really any different today?

any thoughts??? (please no veering off on parenting issues.)

I do not see anything wrong with woman who have children belonging to sororities. I think about it is terms of there are active, productive members of graduate/alumnae chapters who have children. A new Soror just transferred into my chapter who has two children, a job, is a full time student and is active with the Sorority.

I am sure some others may dis agree, but there are people without children who a slackers so people who have kids, jobs, full time student can do it (be active) everyone else can too.

I honestly feel it is a demographic thing. I don't think I would be doing this if I still lived in the South. The whole sorority thing is just way to cut throat. I opted to wait until I could have more free time when my son was older. It does seem to be more accepted with fraternity brothers vs. sorority though. If the group is willing, and the PNM can balance home, school, and sorority life... AND she fits in, to me it isn't a big deal. Now I would have a problem with someone that joined, but was never around because of family life... yes that is a priority, but if you don't have time, then you don't have time.

I think bejazd is talking about membership in undergrad/collegiate chapters.

I don't think this will ever be widely accepted on any campus with large houses to fill - where part of your sorority experience is living in the house. You're not going to want to take that woman with a husband/child because when it's her turn to fill that spot in the house, she'll have an "out." Especially if there are 50 other women you could bid in her place. I'm betting that for the guys, it's the same way.

My organization allows women with children, but it's still rare to have such a woman pursue membership (I've never seen it, but I've heard of some cases). As long as the woman can meet the expectations and requirements of membership, I think it's fine.

Yes, generally speaking.

That doesn't mean that every woman with a child is suitable for membership or will become a member, based on official criteria and other criteria.

A large percentage, if not most, NPHC sorority undergraduate chapters have older women or younger women with a child (married or not) in its ranks somewhere throughout the years.

Coming from a smaller, uncompetitive campus, I wouldn't have had a problem with bidding a woman with a child, but I also wouldn't have had a problem with terminating her membership should it become a conflict.

Canned answer but it depends on the chapter/campus. I think it would be more accepted at in a comuter environment as opposed to a more 'traditional' residential university. And, like it or not, I think it is different for sororities than fraternities.

we have about 36 in my chapter, and only 8 I think can live in the house.. now I am at a small campus, not cut throat like the south... I did my research to see where I thought I'd fit the best... and it worked out in my favor. I'm a 29 year old single mom, going to school full time, working full time, and involved. I'm just one of those people that function better busy... lol....

I would have not been opposed if the particular woman could handle the sorority committments, so ultimately, it would be up to her and her ability to know what she can and can't do.

When I was an active we had an "honorary" sister - she was one of the sister's best friends, at the house all the time and attended many events. But she had a small child and felt that she couldn't balance parenting and being an active, even though all of us would have loved to have her in the group.

So, basically, i think it's a personal choice for the woman in question. However, after reading the thread about bringing young children to social events and meetings, i do NOT find that acceptable

That's possible in your organization? Is that possible in most NPC sororities?

I am an undergraduate. I think I should have phrased my response a little better.

Of course during selection proscesses one would not likely think "Ohhh yeah she has a child....we want her over everyone else", but if she exceeds the requirements versus a childless prospective member who is barely making it......I think the decision is kinda easy. I mentioned the newest addition to my chapter because she has came in and done a lot in addition to her having two kids, a job, and being a full-time student. Seeing how great she is; it would have been a shame if she had got overlooked for membership due to the fact of having children.

In the case of the OP in the now-closed thread that prompted this discussion, the OP was still a new member.

I mentioned that the active sisters didn't have to initiate her if they felt that her children would pose a conflict. I can't imagine terminating a membership based on those reasons after she's been initiated.

Uh.......Technically speaking any woman can terminate her membership. She just stops showing up.

If you can terminate a girl for consistently not paying her dues, why can't you terminate someone for consistently not attending mandatory events?

I would agree. I don't think she should be automatically excluded just because she has kids but she does have to understand the commitment and expectations.

And since I didn't get to comment in the other (now closed) thread, bringing kids to a chapter meeting is completely inappropriate unless there was some unforeseen emergency for the pure fact that they aren't members.

For a mother to be a collegiate sorority member, she has to have a lot of support to make it possible. Money is usually an issue since the average parent would rather their child have something rather than themselves. Time is also a problem since most will have to work to support their families. If you have money and time left after being a good parent and supporting yourself and your own, join a sorority. If you can't do all of this, don't expect someone else to pick up the slack for you. Your sisters aren't there to be your babysitters or to help raise your children. It also is not fair to your chapter to use your situation as an excuse not to participate. I have no problem with women making this choice...I'm sure it will enrich their lives, but they have made choices that make the decision to join a sorority more complicated and difficult.

They need to be able to make the same time commitments that are required of collegiate women who dont have kids. They need to be able to pay their dues, as is expected of other collegiate women. They need to be able to make it to philanthropy events, and sisterhood events, etc etc. If they cant put in at least what is required, and not force the other women to bend over backwards to accomodate their children, then no. As a collegiate woman, it was not my job to accomodate some other person's kids and their schedule.

*Generally speaking*, is it because men are more likely to leave their "personal life" (non fraternity related life) at the door when it comes to fraternity activities and/or business?

As such, I wonder how often the men brought their children to fraternity events? Especially those that were not "open" or appropriate for non members.

She did NOT ask for that opinion in this thread.

Part of having a discussion about being open to women with children in sororities involves talking about things like the possibility of children being brought to chapter events. Everyone's entitled to an opinion here, and discussing that situation in general is fair game. She is just stating how she feels about kids coming to sorority events, not trying to offend you.

Did the OP ask if you wanted to babysit/accomodate people's kids? I think not. She asked if we were open to women with children.

DROP IT :mad:

while i didn't mean to drag that particular thread into this one, I was attempting to distinquish what I thought was appropriate, which is the topic of this thread. having women with kids in a sorority is one thing, and it's fine, having kids at sorority events is not, no matter the kids or the mother, in my opinion.

:rolleyes: Hah. Wow.

I answered the question, dear. Defensive much, are we?

I think we'd all be a little more open to women with children - as long as they were held to the same standards as the rest of us. Unfortunately, as you've proved, many times, they think they should be exception to the rules. Women like UWO, though, are a great example of women who know what's appropriate and what's not when it comes to their kids and greek life.

I can definitely see the benefit of having someone in your chapter who is a mom, but there are also some definite drawbacks.

When I was a collegiate, we bid on a woman who was a mom. She really fit in well with the women in the chapter and it was very obvious to us that she had incredible leadership potential. We were disappointed when, during her second year as an active, her regular babysitter moved. Unfortunately, this woman saw our chapter as the babysitting pool, and she didn't hesitate to ask us to watch her kids. It was ok at first, but it got real old, real fast. She eventually stiffed a few of us who babysat, and because of that, we ended up never agreeing to watch her kids again. She felt abandoned and angry; we felt taken advantage of and angry. It caused our chapter way more grief than any chapter should have to deal with. And quite frankly, we were relieved when she left (I don't know the specifics - don't know if she graduated, went alum, terminated, etc...).

Now, I know that not all moms would act this way. But we never thought she would - she seemed like the perfect sister. And, in fact, she was for a couple years. But the fact remained that she treated her sorority as a babysitting service, and that's not the purpose of sisterhood.

TSteven brings up a great question - is the difference due to the fact that men are more susceptible to checking their personal lives at the fraternity house door? I've said before, Mommy Brain is hard to shut off. For some reason (and I'm not dissing dads - I'm quite jealous, actually), men seem to have an easier time shutting off Daddy Brain (or, at least, appearing to).

In the case of my dad (and try to keep in mind the context of the times) married guys with kids could be active in his fraternity because the activities centered on sharing brotherhood with each other more than social activites with sororities. The guys could come over to the house, play pool or volleyball together or whatever and go to class.

If a sorority chapter's programming and activities are primarily focused on social events with fraternities, I can't really see an older woman with or without kids, being all that interested in membership.

I am going to jump into this one.

I am a sorority woman who joined Phi Mu as a 20 year old single mother. My daughter had a father who was active in her life, I just decided he was not going to be active in my life. That being said...

It was a HARD decision for my chapter sisters. I accepted their faith in my membership and promised to be the very best Phi Mu I could be. I think I have worked at it well. I have been an active, involved member for over 26 years!

My daughter came to some things when I was a collegiate chapter member. She did eat lunch with us at times and go to basketball games wearing a future Phi Mu shirt at times. She did help us "paint the rock" (for anyone who attended Wright State University) some days. Some days she stayed at home because quite honestly, I needed adult time too!

She did not attend chapter meetings, she did not attend all the parties. She did not attend any ritual.

The bottom line is the committment of the member, to all the aspects required. Motherhood, sisterhood, studenthood.

It obviously depends on the chapter and the campus culture. Not only did one of our chapters have a member who has a daughter, that girl was also president of her chapter. Obviously, if you have a strong enough support system and good time management skills, it can be done. With that said, I have to be honest and say that if the decision were up to me, I don't think that I would vote to give a bid to a girl who was pregnant or had children.

that had to be a great experience for your daughter, and it sounds like you knew exactly where to draw the line. I have to ask - you mentioned this was 26 years ago, IS your daughter a phi mu?

Not YET.

Out of High School my daughter (now 28) decided that college was not the path for her at that time. She started college this year (finally..happy mommie dance) because she realizes after working as a one on one associate at our local middle school with special ed students, that she really would love to be a special education teacher for middle school students. ("I didn't realize I could like doing something like working with that age group so much")

When she graduates, I will nominate her for AI. The college she is attending now does not have a Phi Mu chapter.

On a fun note....when my oldest son was about 2.5 he spent quite a bit of time with me at the chapter house while I was the adviser (yes the girls loved him). I needed to be really hands on with the chapter during a rough patch. It worked out well for him to eat lunch with me while I was there meeting with chapter members. We spent so much time there, he told me one day *he* was going to grow up to be a Phi Mu. I did tell him "No, you are going to grow and *marry* a Phi Mu". :) :)

aww, that's adorable! and good for your daughter going into special ed, it's such a demanding and rewarding field. A few of my good friends have entered that field - so difficult, but they love every moment!

And I love hearing about legacies that work out well, my lil sister's mother was a Sigma K and it was great to talk to her and invite her as a suprise to initiation:D My mother is jealous because two of her best friends are Sigma Kappas, one is even in my family tree, but she is not greek, so she yells at us for feeling left out

I had a pledge sister who was a single mom. She had gotten married and divorced very early in life and went to college a little later than the rest of us did. She had the MOST ADORABLE 3 year old daughter! SHe never brought her to any chapter meetings, parties or rituals. She very much tried to keep both sides of her life seperate. In fact, there were times when we said, please brign your daughter to such xyz function, its at a park and she will have fun or we are all going bowling, we think your daughter will have a blast. THe mom (sister) ended up being an incredible active member and took on various leadership roles throughout her time in college.

Now 15 years later, the daughter pledged ZTA! I can tell you that many of us from our pledge class lived and breathed the daughter's recruitment until we received the call that she had received (and accepted) a bid. Here is the touch question... is it dirty rushing if the daughter was only 3 at the time? :rolleyes:

So, yes, I do believe that Greek organizations can be open to having moms as traditional collegiate member is the college and/or chapter environment is accepting as well as the member being accepting of the college/chapter atmosphere. It is definitley a 2 way street!

We didn't have any non-traditional students in my chapter...it was not common for the campus either. I only know of one Phi Mu who stayed active once getting married the year after she pledged. I only knew about this because her mother was an active AOII alum. We didn't really keep up too closely to the happenings in other chapters! One member of another chapter (which I will not name) did raise a few eyebrows. She was the mother of two and an older student who had gotten married when her boyfriend shipped out for the first gulf war (this was when i was in high school so when she pledged during my junior or senior year, she was quite a bit older than the other sorority women on campus.) Her age was not the factor that raised eyebrows. Her parents were raising her children while she kicked up her heels in college a hundred miles away. Sorry...I can't understand choosing to have a sorority experience over raising your own children.

If she's that immature, it might be for the best. Look at Britney...she's rasing her own kids, but I wouldn't call her a better parent because of it.

I don't think it is dirty rushing....remember I tell all my "sisters"....an effective rush *begins* at home! I rush my daughters, I rush my nieces, I rush my cousins (who are all younger than me), I rush my neighbors, I rush teens at my church. I tell them all "Go Greek for sure, and if you can go Phi Mu" :) I am careful when it is during recruitment and they are actually making their choices to avoid any problems.

When my youngest daughter was in Middle School, we would stop by any Phi Mu house along our way for a tour. One time we took a peek at the new floor being laid at the Purdue U chapter. I said "hopefully, one day you might live here" She said "what if they don't want me" I said "their loss then, you will find the right place, we can hope it is with Phi Mu". She is in her second year of nursing school (no greeks there) and when she finishes with her BSN, I will nominate her for AI as well.

This happened in my chapter, with a little bit of a twist. We knew she was older than the rest of the sisters, but that never was a major issue. She made every event, was very involved, and was just a terrific new member. You'd never know she had two kids living with her...because she never told us. We didn't find out until the fall after she became an active, and it was never a big deal to most of us. Some people think she should have mentioned it, but the majority believed it was her business. I think she was afraid that if she mentioned the kids, she wouldn't have received a bid. I like to think we would have still given her a bid had we known about the kids.