Letters on Bid Day???
 

In my chapter, it was unofficially known that we didn't wear letters until after initiation - it was usually a pledge class vote whether or not to do it and traditionally we didn't. But, I'm seeing pics of some orgs of pledge classes who receive letters on bid day or at least are wearing them during their pledge period. What orgs do this (just out of curiosity) and what is the reasoning behind it? It seems to me, it'd be like wearing a french quote on your shirt and not knowing what it means...

I noticed the same thing, SthrnZeta.

We were allowed to wear letters (block/stitched) during NM period (and that was a rather recent development in my chapter...the Jrs and Srs when I pledged were not allowed to wear letters when they pledged)....BUT we had to at least wait until after the Phoenix Degree (pledging ceremony).

I know that my org has an open motto that corresponds to our letters in Greek and English, so we would know what they mean. Well, at least one thing. ;)

We've talked about this quite a bit on GC. Here's a thread:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=14452

Here's another thread:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=1320

Oh, and for a lot of older alums, this whole distinction between the "kinds" of letters (i.e. stitched block vs screened on t-shirts or sweatshirts) was a moot point as block letters weren't always available. I never heard about that until I came to GC.

Thanks for posting those, sorry to reiterate a thread!

In Chi Omega, the pledges/new members wear the Greek letters on their pledge/new member pin, so why not on a shirt.

I'm all for wearing the letters from the beginning.

I know in ZTA, it's in the bylaws that we can't wear the crest but letters have a lot of meaning too, so I believed (along with the rest of my pledge class) that we shouldn't wear them and we actually were upset with other chapters on campus for allowing their NMs to wear them. I also feel very strongly that you shouldn't get those little lettered booty shorts because you're essentially sitting on your letters. Maybe I feel strongly about this since I was Ritual Chair... :p

I agree about the buttshorts, but you can't hold another org to your standards. As 33girl said, ASA has FOUR meanings...one open, and three closed. Since pledges already know the open one, I don't think it's fair to say that they don't know what the letters mean, and shouldn't wear them.

It's not just about the literal meaning of the letters, it's about everything those letters stand for, what it means in general to be a member of that org. You're representing that organization by wearing those letters. It wasn't that we disliked other chapters or anything like that, just that we knew the letters held meaning that they didn't fully understand and it seemed inappropriate to wear them - we felt we should earn them. I guess the letters weren't as big a deal as other symbols to that org, and I understand that (our crest and crown weren't allowed to be worn by anyone but initiated sisters).

Ya know...in reality, a group of new members don't come together and all feel that way without the advice - guidance - prodding - coaxing of a couple of older members.

I never liked the phrase "you should 'EARN' the letters." I think you "learn" sisterhood -- you don't "earn" it.

By earn, I meant learn the history of our fraternity and truly feel the honor of being a Zeta. I don't feel that you really understand it until you've learned something about the org and been through initation, that's all. Not that we were hazed or that we had to make the sisters like us or anything catty like that. I agree with your sentiment, Nut.

Dang, stop hogging ALL the secrets! LOL

it may be a tradition of your chapter that new members wait to wear letters, but zta does not have a national policy that prohibits new members from wearing them. one of my proudest moments was being given my big sisters zta jersey to wear until the ones my pledge sisters and i ordered came in. back in my day, if you could not wear letters, you had nothing to wear until after initiation-this was way before the t shirt phenom. happening nowadays.

you are correct that uninitiated members cannot possess the zta crest.

It's a FOUR thing, you know.

Four meanings.
Four Exemplars.
Four colors.
Four aims.

:):):)

FSU, I know there's nothing official about wearing letters, it was definitely a chapter thing, and I stress again it was a pledge class vote. Alpha Phi class (my class) just chose to go with tradition was all. We had plenty of other Zeta stuff to wear, just not the stitched letters. We got tons of shirts from our Crown, Strawberry, and Bunny sisters before we got our big and then our big gave us stuff too. :D And my family tradition was to give our family letters to sisters at initiation, along with the crest afghan (something I started, my big gave me chapter letters which they later changed the colors of, but oh well).

First off, I would never tell anyone from another org that he/she is in the wrong not letting someone wear letters/crests/colors before initiation. They know the meanings behind them, I don't. By the same token, I wouldn't say someone is wrong TO let their pledges wear them.

I don't know, it just seems like the more we stress no hazing, the more rules like this pop up. During Derby Days, we (as in all the sororities on my campus) let the Sigma Chis who were our coaches wear our jackets. No one thought a thing of it. There's even a pic in our yearbook of 2 sororities wearing each others' coats at Greek Week. From the sounds of things, that would provoke a full-scale riot today.

it is a neat tradition and certainly today is much easier to comply with than when i was a pledge and letter jerseys were the only things that we had. can you tell that i am jealous of all the cute t-shirts that sororities have now?

Letters on Bid Day...
 

My sister was so excited that I pledged ZTA she gave me a lavalier on bid day! So, while other ladies were waiting for t-shirts, I wore my letters every day! In fact, I still have my same lavalier 15 years later. :)

And... the day after initiation I went out and bought something with the crest on it!

It's not as big a deal as I guess I made it sound! Wow, didn't mean for this thread to get so heated! My chapter just placed more meaning on wearing letters than others and so we made it easy for the NMs to not wear them until initiation. It gave us something to look forward to besides just the ritual of initiaton because wearing letters was a big deal at my school. We all understood and agreed with the tradition of waiting. It was by no means a rule and we just felt as strongly as our older sisters did about it.

Sigma Kappa NMs also wear the letters on their NM pin so it makes sense to me that there's no prohibition on wearing letters before initiation.

Realistically, many times when you join an organization you get something that labels you a member, a T-shirt, a membership card, etc. How many new members know what it really means to be a member of their new organization? How much work will be involved? What it stands for? Not knowing secrets of a sorority don't mean you don't want to yourself up to the highest standards in its name. Wearing the pin or the letters serves as a reminder of that.

I agree with a previous comment that a pledge class just doesn't go along with tradition unknowingly. Actives pass that along.

As for lavaliers, my family tradition was for the big to buy one for her little and give it to her little in her basket at big sis revealing, but other families did it differently I think. The tradition before me was for another sister close to your big, your Berry Buddy who was chosen by your big to be another guiding source for you in her absence who bought it for you and preseneted it to you after big sis revealing. Somehow, the lavalier didn't hold as much meaning as stiched letters. So, I wore my lavalier all the time (before initation) and when I graduated, I gave my lavalier to my new little that I took that Spring and I started wearing a crown instead.

The Zeta pledge pin does not have letters on it, so I can't go along with that. But I do agree with you in that initiated sisters are the people that pass along traditions and history and secrets of an org. But there are other things you can display that also remind you of the standards you are holding yourself up to in that org's name besides stitched letters, crest, etc., such as I <3 ZTA pins, ribbons, bid day t-shirt (among others), etc.

sidebar: it gets much more 'heated' than this here at GC - this is just a bunch of people sharing their opinions and personal experiences...

- m

It's been a while since I've posted, I forgot how heated it can get, lol. :eek:

The thing is that, IMO, one chapter shouldn't be putting "more meaning on wearing letters than others." Particularly when it edges really close to violating (Inter)National policy.

In Alpha Phi Omega, new members cannot wear the Greek Letters or have them on anything other than their Pledge Pin. Our paddles had Phi spelled out. Our pledge class t-shirt only had the pledge class name.

So you bet I got a Greek letter T-shirt once I was initiated.

In fact, I got 3 of them. And people everywhere would ask me "what sorority was I in". Even at work nowadays they do when I wear one of my A Phi O Greek letter tees.

Drole, I agree that one chapter "shouldn't" put more meaning on letters than others, but that's just one more thing that makes each chapter different. Certain things are more important to its members than others. For example, A-Phi's little AOE thing they use at the end of messages is important enough to them that its meaning is secret, while everyone knows what ZLAM means for Zetas.

Back in the Ice Age, when I pledged, our pledge pins had the letters on them. We were not allowed to wear any other letters until initiation, but could wear anything that said Alpha Gam.

I think that was a chapter rule and not an international rule.

I had a roommate that was an APO my senior year and I remember what a big deal initiation was for her and wearing letters (which she did a lot afterwards) and it made me remember mine :)

That's a different organization though, not a different chapter. I'm referring to different chapters of the same organization. (Your chapter of ZTA vs. another chapter of ZTA that has no "tradition" of NMs not wearing letters for example)

FSUZeta, please correct me if I am wrong and my memory may not serve correctly, but I am assuming you are referring to sewn letters? When I was in my senior year of college the ZTA colony gave all of the new members white t-shirts with teal letters. I cannot remember if the crest was also on there on not. These were screen printed shirts with letters not sewn.

This was of course much before they were chartered b/c they received the shirts in the fall and were not chartered until the end of the spring semester.

A lot of times too, it's a campus thing. No one knows how or where it started, just that State U has a tradition of Greek pledges not wearing letters. In this case, I don't think pledges should be forced to wear letters - they'll be set apart from their peers on the rest of the campus and that, too, can be construed as hazing. This is why new chapters often adopt the "tradition."

It's like frilly rush - if everyone stopped at the same time, maybe that would work, but no one wants to be the first.

With every chapter being so spread out, it's inevitable that some chapters may believe one thing and another believe something else. I agree that it shouldn't happen and that's what unifies us (our universal traditions) and most things remain the same (rituals, etc.) but ZTA doesn't even have an official mascot so there's bound to be some differences between chapters. I agree it shouldn't be that way, but unfortunately it can't be helped.

33girl, I totally agree with you - you're really looking at the flipside of things and I hadn't even thought of how the girls felt in the orgs that gave out letters during their pledge period... It was obvious to us as NMs because only one chapter that I can remember did it on my campus at the time (I think it was AXiD). Good post!

If a sorority has a national policy that allows members to wear letters, it is up to the individual to choose if she wants to wear them or not as they please.

I think there are many benefits to a new member wearing Greek letters or at least wearing the letters spelled out in Roman characters. Why? Public Relations. The more the campus sees your letters out in full force, the more your sorority becomes a household name. If members are charged with adhering to high standards of conduct, the name is impressed as being a large group of classy ladies.

I'm pro-letters, however you choose to wear them. I don't really think it is a good idea for pledges to take a vote to forbear, as a majority, from an activity (wearing letters) that they are permitted to partake in as a matter of sorority policy. Are there any sanctions for a new member who wears letters or a laveliere, etc., who doesn't adhere to this rule? If there is no penalty, then it probably isn't a big deal, especially if the campus culture is such... but it is entirely possible for new members to haze fellow new members, so it could be seen as hazing. I say "could be seen," not that it is.

However, you'd be hard pressed to get your nationals to concur if a traveling consultant buzzed through town and spent time with your chapter during the NM period if this was something that was brought to her attention. And having traveled to chapters, I probably would say most would not notice what the NMs not wearing letters b/c it isn't like making them wear ribbons 24/7 or forbidding them from speaking before being spoken to, etc-- things that are obviously hazing. I think taking a new member vote not to wear letters might be viewed as a fuzzy area, but I am pretty sure it would be frowned upon though not necessarily dealt with. The sorority has much bigger fish to fry.

Southern, I'm not condemning your chapter with these thoughts. Just airing general experiences and thoughts.

I think our NM Coordinator felt that by letting us vote as a pledge class what we wanted to do, it wasn't hazing. I see your point though, but I have to agree with 33, if I wore letters and all of the other girls I went through recruitment with in other chapters didn't, I'd feel weird. It's about campus culture and your particular chapter in general. Obviously, if one girl wanted to wear letters she had bought in excitement over getting her bid, then there's no one to tell her she can't in ZTA (I think the only person that would have, had that happened, would have been another NM who didn't know better). It's not as big a deal as you're all saying that I'm saying it is - just a personal belief that I have and shared with my chapter. I agree with your point about marketing though, which is why we would have days that we would all wear certain shirts (something from recruitment or bid day, etc.) that our NMs had as well so we were all unified. We would have letters days too, but they were usually during recruitment when any NMs we had would have already been initiated. Trust me, we took public relations very seriously during recruitment since we were a smaller chapter.

i think that the george mason chapter covered it well when the new member coordinator allowed the new member class to vote on whether to wear letters or not. by doing so they ensured that the chapter could not be accused of hazing.

someone asked what letters i was referring to having worn as a pledge. back in my day-mid to late 70's-sororities at fsu did not have t-shirts for every occasion and event-in fact i don't remember any t-shirts for any events until my senior year when i was a rush counselor and we r.c.'s were given "go greek" t-shirts to wear. my chapter wore turquoise jerseys(similar to a football jersey in design) with silver stitched Z T A letters on the front-stitched like one stitches an applique. we could have our name stitched in the same silver fabric on the back like where football players last names appear on their jerseys. i don't have a photo, because my jersey is long gone.

the zeta colony would not have received shirts with the crest on them prior to their initiation. that is strictly forbidden, and most likely the shirts would have been supplied by our international office and they would not have made that mistake.

APhi Sailorgirl, I think we go (went?) to the same school :)

So if you did go where I think you went, then crest was not on the Bid Day shirts. It was the letters, with a crown over the Zeta, which we received at our Bid Day party.

Pi Beta Phi Policy on greek letters
 

It is actually NOT an international rule that Pi Phi's cannot wear letters until initiation. This was a tradition at many chapters for years, including my own - we could not wear letters or Beta (so just shirts that said Pi Phi spelled out). But that practice is discouraged now by our internationals.

I was wondering about Pi Beta Phi's policy. The girl who used to live in my house before my family moved there pledged Pi Phi during her sophomore year (my junior). I saw her with a totebag that had the Greek letters "Pi Beta Phi" on it. I do not remember if I saw her wearing a t-shirt with the Greek letters- but the handbag certainly had them. So the UF chapter (Florida Delta) may not have been one who enforced this tradition.

Alpha Epsilon Phi and Kappa Alpha Theta were the two that I noticed that would not allow the Greek letters till initiation.