Suicide?
 

Anybody know of a girl who suicided and got a bid from the chapter she wanted?

Yes.

several.

Yes I did

Yes. I know several people who suicided and got what they wanted. I also know people who suicided and ended up unmatched. It just depends where you are on the chapter's list.

Yes, but it's a HUGE chance.

If the PNM does so, and doesn't get the bid, doesn't she have to wait until the next Formal Rush?

She doesn't have to wait for a year. The wait applies if a woman is matched but declines her bid.

At a chapter where groups are not close to total (i.e. even if you add quota to the current membership, they are not at total) ISP can get you a bid. However, if quota is high, or groups are close to total it is VERY risky (hence the more common term- suicide)


that being said, it all depends on the campus. It is really best to keep an OPEN mind during recruitment and be open to membership is more than one group. There are great opportunities in each group to be had.

I'm not second guessing you; I just don't understand:

What's the relationship to total got to do with it? Are you considering that even if she doesn't match in formal that she'll get a COB? Or is there something else about that?

On a campus where even filling quota leaves openings to reach total, women who do not match via formal recruitment (usually due to an intentional single preference) will be picked up via cob.

I have seen this happen a lot as the chapter I initiated at, and the chapter I served as advisor had this situation on their campuses- groups not near total, so even after quota was met via Formal Recruitment, there was a need to cob to reach total.

**note on these campuses total should be lowered by panhellenic to help grow all groups, unfortunately what typically ends up happening is the strong groups get stronger and the smaller groups struggle. It all depends on the panhellenic spirit of the campus, and the greek leadership.

exactly.

it all depends on the campus and group sizes and such. :)

I could probably figure it out if I thought about it; but, doesn't suiciding not change your chances (except for QA) of matching with your first choice? You'll either match or you won't. That's why suiciding is only a good idea if there's no way that you want to get your second/third choice.

Melaxid, I wish I could get you in a meeting with a campus Greek Advisor I know, you hit the nail on the head!!! :)

Oh, and to the original question of the thread, yes I suicided and it worked out, but no, it's not recommended, it is risky.

Plus, you have no chance of being a QA, so you hurt yourself twice.

Why does suiciding persist?
 

Sometimes PNM are under the false assumption that by suiciding they will somehow increase the odds that they will get the chapter they put down. I've had to explain to PNM that that is NOT how it works.

But, and it's not that I'm pro-SIPing, if you really don't want your second and third group, it's probably not a good idea to list them just to try to increase your chances of being a QA, especially if one or both of the second and third groups are smaller than your first choice group.

(If you don't really want the 2nd and 3rd group and you list them just to increase the chances of QA at #1, you're basically betting that all three groups will match to quota before you get a bid and that your #1 group will still be eligible for QAs when they get to your name. I don't think it's a good bet in the age of release figures. Back in the olden days when groups invited as many people back as they wanted and preffed a full three-times-quota, it might have happened, but today, if you pref three groups, you are probably high enough on someone's list to match in regular matching, but there is no guarantee that it's your first choice.)

But if your are thinking of "suiciding" you really have to ask yourself, "would I rather not be Greek than join these other groups?" and the answers has to be "100% yes."

It seems that there's an increase in SIPing from what my daughters and other active Greeks are telling me. A lot of it is apparently coming from schools who require you to attend the maximum numbers of parties you've been invited to. I can see that this could be a good thing but not if you force women to even go to prefs where they don't want to be! (I did a thread on this somewhere.) If a woman has attended several sets of parties and she KNOWS she can't stand ABC (we're not talking about the women who are unsure), then why try to force her to pledge?

If a school forces a PNM to attend a party at a group she hates and no way would she pledge it, then PH has no business penalizing her if she SIPs. I really think this is also why I keep hearing about so many women who don't show up at their houses on Bid Day or depledge within days....a few years back, you didn't hear of that as much as you do now.

Carnation,

I think I understand what you are saying, but the only "penalty" that I've heard of for SIP (at the type of school you describe where you have to go to all the events) is that you aren't eligible for QAs. Have you heard of other penalties?

To me, saying you have to go back to the max. you are invited to, but you don't have to list all the chapters on the bid card is about right.

As far as losing QA potential, we can't create a system where we try to allow girls to be matched to their first choice as long as they go to pref there or we'll be kind of throwing quota out the window, won't we?

So, short of matching everyone to her first choice after prefs, aren't we always going to be faced with girls having to decide between SIPing or facing the possibility that she may not like her second or third choice group as much?

Is there a way that you think it can be fixed? Or is it that you get a little tired of all the focus being on girls matching to groups, rather than matching to groups that they really like?

(I'm always impressed by the numbers of girls who do match at their first choices. They tend to be the vast majority, so at least that's good.)

When I was in college, I knew a girl who suicided one house and didn't get a bid. She was #1 on another sorority's list, however, and she was contacted and allowed to join that other house. She did. Would they even allow anything like that now that everything is computerized and all?

That's not out of the ordinary. It's mainly how snap bids work.

I suicided Sigma Kappa, which was a really risky thing to do, but it worked out in the end. :D

The don't suicide if it's computerized I think came about because some of the computer programs kick you out completely if you don't put the max amount down. You know, kind of like they said on the SATs it was better to guess than leave it blank because a blank hole really screwed up the works or something. There are schools where you're not eligible for snap bids or QAs if you suicide, but that would be their rule even if they hand matched. HTH :)

Wuh? In my SAT prep classes we were always told not to guess because a wrong anwer hurt you more than no answer at all.

You're correct. A blank answer is worth zero points but the wrong answer subtracts a quarter of a point from your score so guessing is not encouraged! I never liked that idea.

There are just so many reasons why people do this.

For many girls, it has to do with who's left on their dance card, so to speak. If it's ABC, DEF and XYZ, and the only house she really wants is ABC, while the 2 other chapters are much weaker at her school, she's going to think long and hard before giving the other 2 a chance.

In my years in the recruitment advising role, I saw just about everything. SIPing because of hard core dirty rushing--especially rampant on a deferred rec. campus where PH enforcement is weak. SIPing because she was a sophomore and only wanted to be in her friends' sorority. SIPing because she was not willing to commit to the other choice(s). I've seen girls SIP when she only has 1 strong house in comparison to the others, and I've seen it happen when all of the houses are strong but the girls only want what they want. It happens when PNMs travel in packs and follow what the others are doing. It also happens when PNMs are highly independent and for whatever reason decide it's not worth the time to shop around.

I did not SIP because after pref, I seriously could have seen myself in either of the 2 houses. My roommate, on the other hand, SIP'ed the house we both ultimately pledged and she did it in an earlier round. She just didn't like the other house (glamour girls) and wasn't interested in their sales pitch (she was this amazing supermodel type--boy, that killed them).

I did. It was during informal recruitment during the spring, I don't think all of the chapters were taking pledge classes, and the other sorority that I was interested in also had their parties at the same time as axid. In hindsight, I think it was foolish (don't get me wrong - i love axid - but i think it's better to go through formal recruitment and really get to see all of the chapters), but it worked out in the end :)

suicide
 

My daughter is going to prefs tonight and at her school that's only 2 parties. One she really likes and one she definitely would not want to join (she went to 3 yesterday). So... she's certainly hoping her fav. is one of the 2 tonight and she's willing to go to the other, but doesn't see herself as being a sister there. So... she thinks she has to rank both. I told her to check with her Rho Gamma because if she ranked both she might be invited to join her 2nd choice. I know suicide is a risk, but it seems to make sense if you definitely don't want the other house. My question is this: they are also colonizing another house on campus in a few weeks. If she suicides her first choice and doesn't get it will she be eligible to rush at the new sorority?

ALso -- it's the ACT test where you're supposed to guess!!

If you only rank 1 choice and don't get it .. you are a free agent and can COB when formal recruitment is complete or participate in the recruitment for a colony.

if you rank multiple choices, get a bid and decline it than you CANNOT accept a bid
to an NPC sorority for 1 year. This would include a colonization recruitment.

you are correct, if you won't accept the bid DO NOT rank it on your preference/bid card!!
the Rho Gamma may try to persuide her to list both but she shouldn't if she knows for
a fact she won't accept the bid.

Well, my daughter did get invited to a pref party at her 1st choice and one other. I forgot to mention that she is a legacy at her 1st choice, which is the only one she ranked. Does anyone know how legacies are handled these days? I'm a Gamma Phi. Don't know if it varies by Panhel at various schools or by individual chapters, or if there is an overall rule within a sorority. If this can't be discussed in an open chat, you can send me a private message. I only want to know for me. I won't ruin her Bid Day experience by sharing any info on this with her.

Isn't that MS?

What IS MS?

MS = Membership Selection. Not discussed on GreekChat, PM or not.

If the legacy information you seek is not readily available on your sorority's website, then it's probably not best to discuss it online.

She's right.

Membership Selection is considered very private and is not discussed with anyone other than initiated members of that sorority. Questions like the one you asked are not going to get answered because that info is only known by initiated members. The general rule of thumb is if the info is not available on the sorority's national website, it's not for non-members to know.

Everyone else is right. A really general answer is that it may have helped her at a little by at least making her stand out in members' minds. There's no way for anyone to reassure you that because she's a legacy, she'll get in, because that's not necessarily the case.

Sorry -- I'm pretty new to Greek Chat. I didn't realize I was asking something off limits. I didn't mean to bring up something taboo. I'm just stressing about it!! SHe was so excited after final parties and had a very long talk with her Rho Gamma before ranking only the one. (She doesn't think legacies get any special treatment, so that's not why she did it -- she just didn't feel like she'd fit in with the other group). I guess I'll just have to wait until tonight to find out the results. Bid Day starts at 6:15. Do I have to hold my breath re: the dreaded phone call telling her not to come right up until the end?