Bid mismatch / computer error?
 

Can someone explain this to me? I've researched bid matching and am still confused.

A girl prefs at three houses. She ranks all of the houses she attends to maximize her options. She ranks the houses: ABC, DEF, and XYZ. Let's say she isn't high enough to make ABC's quota, but she is the #1 at DEF. Is it still possible for her to get XYZ, her third choice, even though she is on the first list at her second choice?

Finally, is there any way to change a true error?

Also, is there a copy of the "Green Book" anywhere online?

In that situation, there SHOULD NOT BE any way for her to end up in XYZ if she's #1 at DEF.

(Not saying it couldn't happen for some strange reason, due to human/computer error, or retarded campus rules.)

How about the same scenario, but she's #5 at DEF, but #1 at XYZ? She should have received a bid to DEF since she's on the first list and it's her second choice, correct?

Scenario
Quota = 10 (just to make it easy)

Her Pref Card:
ABC
DEF
XYZ

She's #15 at ABC, and they fill quota with 1-10 - NO MATCH


She's #10 at DEF
She's #1 at XYZ

She's a DEF, because it was #2 on her card, even though it seems XYZ wanted her more.

I think I remember hearing of a COUPLE campuses that would match her to XYZ if XYZ was a bunch smaller than the rest of the groups, but that would be against NPC rules (AFAIK).

Oh, and technically, she probably wouldn't be #1 at XYZ and #10 at DEF because first bid lists (the number of girls that add up to quota) are generally done in alphabetical order.

No. Well, not for free anyhow.

You can purchase an electronic version from the NPC website:

http://www.npcwomen.org/store/s_publications.php

BTW - if you're asking this question because you received your 3rd choice, please be aware that the scenario you described is highly unlikely. Especially if you think it only happened to you.

If you had been describing a situation on a campus where multiple women were affected, it might be more plausible. (Some type of computer glitch.) Plausible, but not terribly likely.

(Though a few of the posters from Illinois can share an example of a problem they had there several years ago...but I think that was right around the time a new system was implemented. And it was a widespread problem that affected many women - not just one person who didn't match the way she wanted.)

Correct. First bid lists (numbering whatever quota is) are done alphabetically and the second bid list is in order of preference. The reason it's done this way is because in the days of hand bidmatching, the alpha list makes it easier to find the woman who's name is called.

If there is a true error, a complaint could be made to Panhellenic and ask if a hand-match could be done.

This could be a case where a DEF member says to the girl "I don't know why were aren't a DEF, you were #1 on our list!". Which, unless the DEF member was the Recruitment Chairwoman or the Recruitment Advisor, a general initiated member would have NO CLUE who was on the bid list and what place.

Is there a rule prohibiting Panhellenic from going back and hand matching this girl? Bids have already been given out, but she has not signed the actual bid that will be sent to Nationals.

There is no rule prohibiting it, but if a Panhellenic had to do a hand rematch every time someone didn't get the bid they were expecting, that's all they would do all year. From what I'm hearing, it sounds like this girl got a bid from her #3 choice and is unhappy. Unless there are a large number of women complaining (including the sorority chapters), my guess is that there may have been a crosscut situation, for example:

Sally PNM's pref card:
ABC =1
DEF = 2
GHI = 3


ABC's bid list:
Sally appears low on their #2 list
ABC fills to quota before Sally's name comes up.

DEF's bid list:
Sally appears low on their #2 list
DEF fills to quota before Sally's name comes up.

GHI's bid list:
Sally is on their first list. Sally's bid is from GHI.

Alphafrog already explained this above, btw.

She has two choices - accept the bid and give the chapter a FAIR shot. If she is still unhappy, she can leave the chapter before initiation and try recruitment next year OR she can decline the bid and be eligible for recruitment next year.

FWIW, if I had declined my not #1 bid, I wouldn't be here today, a proud alumna of 25 years membership in my Fraternity.

In this scenario, the PNM would match to DEF. I am not sure if you are the PNM who got XYZ or you are DEF wondering why this PNM didn't match with your chapter. Only PHA will know the decisions of both parties, and they won't share it. The PNM will not know where she was on DEF's list. A member of DEF would not know, and I don't think any self-respecting membership chair or advisor would reveal that information. Likewise, DEF will not know how the PNM ranked them, unless she tells them.

I am wondering how you think you know there has been an error.

Maybe you need to do a retro recruitment thread!?!

http://www.mgroves.com/images%5Cdo_not_want.jpg

(Nothing against you, PT - the summer of the Retro is OVER and let's not go there again)

Two questions, purely for informational purposes only.

If quota is 10, and there are 20 names on the bid list, and 10 girls are not matched, then the girls whose names are at the lower end of the alphabet are cut simply bc their names appear lower on the alphabetical list?

Is it reasonable to say that there is a higher percentage of "no match" situations for girls whose last names start with a letter later in the alphabet?

If these assumptions are reasonable, has the issue been raised on a large scale?

This scenario really supports the fact that a cut can very well be due to something random and non-personal.

If quota is 10, the chapter's first bid list (of 10 names) is in alpha order. The second bid list (everyone else attending their pref parties...in your scenario, 10) would be in order of preference.

If Quota is TEN then only the first TEN girls are done alphabetically.

Everyone AFTER quota is then done in order of preference.

Oh my!!!! AlphaFrog and I responded at the same time AND said the same thing! ;)

No worries, dear AF!

if quota is 10 for ABC, then the first bid list will have 10 names in alphabetical order. so it would look like this, no matter if girl A was 10th or girl I was first, because quota is 10.
1.A
2.B
3.C
4.D
5.E
6.F
7.G
8.H
9.I
10.J

the second bid list would have the rest of the girls in number order

11.Z
12.K
13. Q
14. BB
15. K
16. M
17. L
18. AA
19.GG
20.Y

so for Z to move up to the first bid list, one of the first 10 girls matches to another sorority or she doesn't have ABC on her preference card.

i can see where your concern about later in alphabet girls, but if a girl whose last name is Z, she would only be last on the first bid list, which is up to quota, so if quota was 20, she would be 20 and if she had XYZ on her preference card and she was on the first bid list when it came out she would be an XYZ. it is done alphabetically so when going through the cards, it is just easier.

if you don't recieve a bid and you have maximized your options, it means you were just too far down on a bid list, which is why quota additions are used. but if you suicided DEF and lets say your last name starts with a W, and you didn't make it onto the first bid list, it not because your name, its because you were not high enough (girl 45) and they filled quota(25) before they got to you.

hope this makes sense.

ETA: hahaha, it took me so long to write this, that other people answered it first!

Many many thanks. It's very clear to me now.:rolleyes:

Reading this reminds me of a LSAT prep question, oye.

Final question: is it a Panhellenic rule, as in it's in the "Green book", that the A list is not ranked? As in everyone is just considered #1? And so that would mean that alphabetizing, or randomly sorting, or whatever has no effect so long as the A list contains the same # of girls as quota?

The fact that the first bid list is alphabetical has no affect on what members are chosen, because the first bid list is equal to the number of women in quota.

If quota is 10 and all 10 of the ladies who are on DEF's first bid list put them first, it makes no difference whether Polly PNM is listed 2nd, 5th, or 10th on the list. She's one of the first 10 to match, so she gets a bid.

The only time the rank matters is once you move off the first bid list.

I have a copy of the Green Book around here somewhere - I'll have to pull it out to see whether its specifically stated that the 1st Bid List is alphabetical. (Not sure if its an actual rule, or if its something that has evolved b/c its easier to implement in practice and has no affect on the bids issued from the 1st bid list.)

I think that GLO can turn in the list sorted anyway they want right, with the understanding that girls will be matched in order? They just have to follow their own internal policies, which I think might require alphabetizing so that from the group's perspective all first list is number one.

It can be easier to comprehend by thinking that all of these girls are in a big "tie" for first place - doesn't matter what order they're listed in, b/c they all "came in first."

I like to think of the first bid list as a "box". If you're in the box, order doesn't matter. If you're in the box you can be matched to that chapter. You stay in the box until you are matched somewhere. If you're not in the box, you "wait in line" (aka the second bid list). You stand in line in order. If you are the next one in line to go in the box, you can only move into the box if someone already in the box matches elsewhere.

Yes, it's lame, but it might help people who are more visually oriented understand bid-matching.

I have the Green Book. We haven't solved the problem, but if this has a happy ending, I'll let y'all know. Thank you so much for your help!

Actually, that's a pretty good way of describing it. I might just have to borrow that analogy from you. :)

That was my rush! It was actually in the middle, though, so corrected invitations were issued a few days later (we had a week off between rounds).

LSAT
 

Hahahaha
I'm thinking that the LSAT was easier that figuring all of this out!!

ZTA72

The reason the first list was required to be in alpha order came from the days of hand bid matching. It jut made it easier to find the women on the list! Anyone who has done hand bid matching can tell you by the time everyone is pretty much on their second list, it goes slowly because everyone has to go up and down that one several times to make sure whether the woman is on it or not. Most places do comupterized matching now and it really doesn't matter what order the lists are in now but most just keep on doing the old way.

i will be hand bid matching on sunday-thank heavens , at present, there are only two chapters on campus so it does not take very long. we make a party of it, with some of us bringing bagels, donuts, juice or coffee. sort of a "thank the good Lord we survived another recruitment" party.

next year we will have a third, so i'm thinking "bigger party"!

This is actually a good method of matching that is used for other fields as well. Every year 4th year medical students have a match to see which residency they will go to for the remainder of their training. Interviews are throughout the fall and winter. Students make a list like PNMs and programs have a numerical list of potential residents. If your program takes 10 people, than the first 10 on the list are in no particular order because they are essentially your first bid list. The remaining students are listed according to the order in which you like them. PNMs...er, students still get their hearts broken at times, but things tend to work out for the best. We even have "Match Day" where matches are revealed...it often gets televised as well. Crying moms and proud dads attend, so it's very similar to bid day at Alabama or Auburn.:p

Yes, the UAB medical school always has a picture in the paper of that little event...most happy but some not so happy~

I always enjoyed hand bid matching -- you really get to see how well you did. When I was an advisor to my collegiate chapter, the Phi Mu advisor had been in school with me. We were friendly rivals then...and later as advisors!

I love hand bid matching! There's nothing like the rush of saying, "Match" and finally, "Match and Done"!

Well, until Quota Plus, that is!

which we got!! zta pledged quota(49) plus 3 for a total of 52 new zeta babies! i am glad to be done.

Way to go, FSUZeta -- hope you're taking a nice, long bubblebath right now!

ZTAs!!
 

Yay for you FSUZeta and all of our new sisters!!!
Love,
ZTA72