Dirty Rushing and Consequences
 

I was talking to a friend yesterday who told me that on the campus where she advises, there is a huge dirty rushing issues with one of the groups. The group got in trouble last year, had to do a recruitment workshop and pay for it, but again, the group is back to their old ways.

I'm wondering if any of you have experienced this and what other sanctions may have/have not been effective.

Dirty rush isn't a big deal on our campus, as far as I know. It is handled by a small fine.

However, as I posted in the other thread about dirty rushing, a school nearby promised an excessive amount of PNMs a bid and then bid less than half of them. They were restricted to only pledging five NMs a year for [I think] five years, or something crazy like that. Long enough to hurt them. I don't remember exactly how long.

It was crazy.

Panhellenic can limit the number of women a chapter can pledge as punishment? I've never heard of that....!!

Neither have I!!! I'm surprised their National Headquarters didn't throw down about this.

That seems like revenge, not punishment! That could really be a death sentence for a chapter! I thought the point was to deter the behavior in the future and get to the point of why it was happening with education, etc.

NPC actually does not allow you to restrict the numbers (not to say it didn't happen, but it would have been in violation of the greenbook).

We had an incident where a chapter COB'd over total by five women. The following semester, we thought that quota should be reduced by five for them, and that was not allowed.

So of course, the lesson was to bid as many girls as you want, because their dues would be more than any fine your chapter had to pay.

I know of one org., ABC, who accidently handed out a COR bid a day early (there was a specific that needed to pass between recruitment and COR). I believe it was truly an honest mistake, because there was a lot of miscommunication that year. Anyway, XYZ was not too fond of ABC in the first place, so XYZ reported ABC to Panhellenic. ABC's punishment was to not only revoke that bid, but also tell her about XYZ's COR events. Guess what happened? The girl joined XYZ.

Fining isn't always effective. Some chapters at my alma mater would budget the fines into each year's budget because they knew they'd get their list to Panhellenic way too late. I forget what the fine was per hour, but they would hand in their list along with their fine at the same time.

Even at my small school, we've run into problems with certain groups COB'ing over total - fines have not had an effect because those 4 or 5 women's dues make up by far the fines that are handed down. Panhellenic has recently started requiring chapters who have infractions to hold workshops in preparation for recruitment for all of the sororities which review the Green Book rules on recruitment. But it still hasn't helped...

In some cases, it's just not possible to undo the damage you've done to another sorority with merely a fine or a loss of socials. Some groups weigh the loss of socials against being able to demolish another sorority with rumors and plow straight ahead and do the latter, laughing all the way.

I'm thinking af a case at a Georgia school a few years back as told to me by another GCer. During recruitment, one group told PNMs awful and untrue things about their chief rival and the chief rivals made nowhere near quota. The offending group was very happy about the whole thing and apparently held parties off campus since they couldn't hold official parties. The punishment amounted to nothing and it took quite awhile for the other group to recover.

I'm not sure that Panhellenic Councils really have any means by which to punish severe infractions.

What do you think would happen if PHC WAS allowed to limit the number of women taken in the next FR cycle?

In SOME (not all) I think the local Panhel's would be bogged down by accusations and trying to judiciate which claims were true and which were exaggereated.


At a school this fall, there was a sorority who received a huge number of rush infractions that in order to "pay up" for their infractions, the sorority would be on social probation for the next three years. The course of action is now in question, because it is punishing new member classes to and three years from now.

So is that setting a precedent if you are going to committ an infraction, do it big? You will only get the minimal infraction fine afterall...

This happened at a school I won't name last year, leading one group to not make quota for the first time in many years. As there was no GA at the school, there was literally no punishment. The offending sorority said that the other did really bad things like circle the fat, and many pnm's believed it.

Most campuses where I've helped out don't really give out punishments. Sometimes they'll make a big deal out of little things (closing the door at pref when the rho chis are outside talking so loud that the ceremony is being disrupted), while usually when there really are infractions, they could care less because they can't prove anything.

From what my friend told me, the group invited women to a party at an off-campus party at an apartment of a member, and also one of the recruitment counselors lived there. So not only was there the party, but now the RC's affiliation is known. The RC volunteered to resign, because she said she didn't want to cause any problems, and that she didn't know about the party, but Panhel has left her stay as an RC.

Also, she said she felt that no matter what the sanction, this group is basically not going to care. They have alienated all of the other NPCs, they hang out with only the 2 largest fraternities. If they lost social privileges, they'd do unregistered mixers at apartments...fines would just be paid. It just seems there is no win here.

The only thing I can think of is not permitting them to participate in things like Homecoming or intramurals. Then again, that only works if Greeks on the campus make a big deal out of it. Plus you're kind of getting out of the Panhellenic sphere and into something a campus jud board or Greek council would have to solve, and you know the guys would be like "they did what? Who gives a crap?"

The less Greeks are deeply involved with the campus, the less fines and sanctions will work. Like you said, they'll just have unregistered parties and take their chances. You could report them to their national, but that seems kind of vindictive...and the national might believe their own rather than an accusing Panhel.

This school only has locals, no national sororities. That may have had something to do with it. I believe they were on probation by the school at the time, too, for hazing that included:

1). Giving NMs a frozen hot dog and giving them 2 minutes to 'warm it up'.

2). Circle the fat, in a football field, by a fraternity. Then, they would have the NMs lay down on the ground, put raw meat on the circled parts, and bring out dogs to eat it off their bodies.

Sounds like an exaggeration, I know, but I know this because my best friend's little sister pledged there and ended up dropping because she couldn't take it.

I'm assuming they weren't allowed to use a microwave? LOL

Yeah, if it's a locals only school, limiting pledges is what is usually used for fraternities and sororities as far as discipline for anything is concerned.

Wow. I think I'd tell them where they could stick that hotdog to warm it up. And it would be even less comfortable than what they were planning on...

As AlphaFrog can attest, Western Illinois back in the day, did not have the best idea of "panhellenic unity", so it never surprised me when we heard about rush infractions. There was one incident that sticks in my mind, both for what was said, and the group's punishment.

When I was an undergrad, there were 6 sororities; 3 always made quota, 2 made quota every couple of years, and 1 never did. During my junior year, the house that never made (DEF) quota had their national come down and help them with recruitment. According to the story I heard from their recruitment chair (who was a very good friend of mine), their return rates for 2nd round were amazing - literally all but 5 they invited came back. Their returns for pref were horrible. A couple of the girls who did come back mentioned that the ABCs told everyone that the DEF's would be closing at the end of the year, and not to waste their time going back to that house. They offered up the fact that their nationals were in town as proof. Part of our new member class confirmed the story.

So, DEF complains to Panhellenic, and ABC eventually acknowledges it. Their punishment? Panhellenic had them become parade marshalls at the homecoming parade. Yup. They were able to wear letters and march in the parade promoting the sorority while waving to the crowd. Justice wasn't exactly served here.

There are certain chapters that can't get in their head that when one group drops off, the next group down the line becomes the weakest link, and they end up with a target on their back. Pretty soon, the group putting the target on the weak group's back is going to end up as the weakest group.

I didn't realize you could COB over total. I always imagined that the bids went through the Greek Life office and someone kept track, but especially at schools with no Greek Life office, I can see how that would be my faulty thinking.

Please kept in mind that I only know SEC situations, and I recognize that every place isn't like the SEC, but I haven't had experience with how things play out elsewhere.

Based on what I have seen, it seems kind of reasonable to be somewhat flexible in COB situations at campuses where groups can go over total by pledging to quota during formal. It seems a little odd that it's allowed one semester to pledge above, but not the next.

And since at the campuses I know, only the groups who either don't consistently make quota or have trouble with retention are COBing, basically even going up to total keeps them smaller than the groups who always pledge quota and keep everyone. So oddly, a hard COB cap at total "hurts" small to medium sized groups. Or maybe it helps the small at the expense of the medium?

Imagine a group at UGA where chapter total is 170 or 175, something like that, but quota is 50 to 60 each year. A group that hits quota and keeps everyone could have a lot more girls than a group who didn't make quota or lost a lot from year to year*. The smaller group might get to total as it's presently set, but they won't really ever be able to make up what can end up being a pretty big size difference. Why not let them COB a few more if they can?

Maybe everyone could alway be welcome to bid to largest chapter size in COB, rather than average size? (Now, that I think about it, isn't that one of the choices for how you set total? For the first time, I can see its appeal.)

*You'd think that every group had the same shot at retention, and to some degree that's right, but chapters that typically pledge socially prominent, very affluent girls (often the top groups during formal) probably don't have as many girls with financial difficulties, and groups viewed a lower tier groups may not be able to give their members the same social experience as "top" groups, leading to more drops.

I think DBB talked about this before and if I recall it wasn't a screwup on the part of the GL office, it was the sorority omitting/twisting membership information.

The problem is once the girls are given the bids...taking the bids back would penalize the pledges more than it would the sorority. It's not their fault (well, usually) that they got caught up in something shady, so they shouldn't have to pay for it.

Actually, to this day I believe it was an HONEST MISTAKE on the part of the group involved (not my own), because they didn't understand the quota/total rules and exactly how they worked. However, ignorance of the rules is not a defense, in my mind, no more than it ignorance of the law is a defense for a traffic violation.

I was actually the one who found out about it and got our area officer involved, and we weren't out to "get" the other sorority or see them punished. In a COB situation, it was likely they were girls would would have gone to that chapter or not gone Greek at all.

The problem was that allowing it to go unnoticed would set a really dangerous precedent for future situations.

Dirty Rushing at our campus has been ghastly since I pledged, in 2005. There have been changes in the scheduling of recruitment, from before school started to now, during the first semester. It's gotten worse, of course. Most girls I knew got calls from several of our 8 houses during the off-time of Rush week. The houses would call to assure girls that they were wanted, and to confirm that the PNM would not cut their house, ABC, the next day.
So, if ABC ends up not giving her a bid, she might complain to the Greek Life Office, but what can they do about it? She didn't get a bid. They can't give her one. If she files an official complaint for dirty rushing, they get fined. Most houses do budget for fines.
A few houses have consistently released more women than allowed on the first and second nights of recruitment. That may be a hefty fine, even, but their alums and budgetting allow them too. Even if it were a difficult payment for the chapter to make financially, who cares? They don't get those women added back to their party lists for the next days of rush. They get rid of them. They get what they want. And their chapters don't have to hold on to the women that are guaranteed a bid from somebody, because of our campus's policy. No punishments can fix that. No matter what the infraction, all dirty-rushing usually gets the offending chapter little punishment. Restricting numbers would actually keep that from happening, and I'm inclined to agree with the policy.

LSU's Panhellenic has reportedly adopted new sanctions for bid promising, which is supposedly a problem there sometimes:

Recent article:

http://tigerweekly.com/article/12-11-2007/7168

Until now, the penalty for bid promising there was a fine and possibly some sort of probation.
The new policy, according to the article ^, is:

"Chapters found in violation of this policy will result in social suspension on and off campus for the fall semester,” as stated in the Rules Governing Recruitment. This means no exchanges, no formals, semi-formals, grubs or grab-a-dates for an entire semester if found responsible for promising a potential member an invitation to a chapter.

Of course, I guess the bid promising would have to be reported in the first place, then investigated.

Is it likely that the new policy will produce the results LSU's Panhel wants? Do I look like I know? Anyone with good knowledge of LSU recruitment care to discuss?

It certainly is a problem that needs attention; however, I still think it will be difficult to enforce. Won't it end up being her word against hers?

Here's an idea -- bring Judge Judy in for the week after Bid Day -- she'll get to the bottom of it!

[QUOTE=arkadpi;1562821]Dirty Rushing at our campus has been ghastly since I pledged, in 2005.[QUOTE]

LOL, it was ghastly at UAF 35 years ago too.

All of the posts in this thread just emphasize the giant BIATCH attitude of some groups/campuses. Glad I do not deal with collegians b/c this stuff is ugly!

How would this be a problem? It sounds like your campus uses release figures. Release figures suggest a different number of PNMs for each chapter to invite back based on retention. Chapters are allowed to invite fewer than the suggested number, but they can't invite more. If a chapter wants to release more PNMs than their suggested number, that's their problem IMO, because it's a risk they're willing to take.

What specific dirty rush tactics are you hearing about? Seems to me it's third-hand, and could be any of the things posters on this thread have assumed, or could be something else, or could be nothing.

Exactly. Just because your "number" is zero, doesn't mean you actually want to accept everyone or can particularly when it comes down to grades.

You have to click on the letter "A" above in the reply space. See, now I am writing in red.

The fining thing really worked at Elon when it came to turning lists in on time. However, when I was there when an actual rush infraction occured (XYZ was giving pnms beer at a bar in front of 4 rho chis -- their defense was that they didn't think the rho chis could report the infraction because the rho chis were dissafiliated...:confused:) Their consequence was they had to put on a "Panhellenic Spirit Workshop" as a new member workshop. I believe that XYZ group had to pay for the speaker to come and what not, so I guess it cost them a lot of money.

I would have laughed in their faces if they said that to me. Isn't that one of the jobs of a Rho chi?

And very hard to read. I wish KSUViolet nothing but the best, but wish she'd use a darker color, LOL!

I believe that shadokat was trying to be discreet about the specifics so as to not point out the campus where this was happening. I think she just wanted an idea of what sanctions work and what don't.

I'm with you, D. I've never even heard of these types of things going on. It's not that I don't believe that they do, it's just so different from how things were on my campus. Everyone got along just fine. :confused: I guess I should consider myself lucky in that regard.

I think someone said it's against the greenbook rules, but I think just taking away the chapter's right to continue with Recruitment that semester and entirely denying them a pledge class would do the trick. I mean if you can't "play fair" then you shouldn't be allowed to "play" at all. Obviously that wouldn't fly though, so it's not helpful. Sorry.

Recently, there was a rumor going around here about one of the houses losing their social priviledges (sp?) for next semester b/c during recruitment they gave a PNM a piece of jewelry ($$$) and a bid promise. I was shocked, but then again I have heard that this house has a budget for infractions b/c they get them so much. Who knows..

p.s- the girl that was promised a bid, went to a different house.

It's not just the Green Book, it's a freedom of association issue.

They can be denied the right to participate in formal recruitment (as it's a Panhellenically run event) but they are still allowed to recruit members in other ways - COB, etc. Something like this can actually backfire, because it would allow the "penalized" group to hold whatever kind of parties they want, without rules on frills and time limits and such.