The link between Greek membership and social conservatism
 

Going by what I read on GC and other Greek message boards, Greeks as a whole tend to be more socially conservative compared to non-Greeks. Most of the Greeks I know/knew in real life are more on the conservative side also. I took a class last semester, we read a lot of research on different student groups. There was research that said Greeks are one of the least socially progressive student groups.

In other words, it's obvious that Greeks as a group are more socially conservative than non-Greeks. What I have trouble understanding is what is it about fraternities and sororities that attract more conservative people. Maybe I have trouble understanding because I was a social Greek for a short period of time, and missed out on a lot of stuff. It seems that the things fraternities and sororities provide (brother/sisterhood, leadership development, networking opportunities, etc.) would attract anyone, regardless of political and social views.

Huh?

I think it's like saying the dress code for sorority recruitment is to wear pearls and white gloves. No, the Greek system does not attract people with more conservative views.

Yeah. You should probably come to the South.

Uh...yes it does, in general. What a horrible analogy.

In general, they do. This is why greek membership suffered so in the early 70's. The greek system was seen as part of "The Establishment" and the vast majority of college students wanted nothing to do with "The Establishment". There are certain standards we are expected to uphold as members of our organizations and they tend to be pretty conservative. The true irony in this phenomena, for the women's groups anyway, is that our organizations were founded by women who were attending college during times that it was not encouraged. So, they were very progressive women who set out to develop our organizations.

That definitely doesn't mean there are no liberals in GLOs and it definitely varies by region, but extreme liberals (think anarchy types) aren't going to be interested in joining a group where they are told what they can wear when they drink, etc.

Conservative does not necessarily equal negative. Also, I think that most folks assoiciate greek life with a degree of conformity (whether that is true or not), and the notion that one has to conform to be a member overrides the other positives that might be associated with greek life.

Also, conservative is relative. In the black community, NPHC organizations are often considered conservative because of some of the values they espouse. However, when considered in relation to other GLOs, NPHC organizations might be considered down-right radical.

As my grandfather used to say "It's all relative."

My family is very conservative overall- and not fond of GLOs at all. I am a fence-sitting moderate, and I am an A Phi O brother and am pursuing AI as well.

Well most fraternities strive to live up to values and a set of beliefs that were established 100+ years ago, a time when American culture was conservative, so this is not at all very surprising. Also, if you look at the things that most Greeks do, (serenades, pinnings, date parties,etc) it is kind of a throw back to an older generation.

the demographics for my sorority dispute this. But then it is probably understandable since out first official act was to participate in the suffragette movement and march the streets of DC.

My college banned general GLOs for that very reason during that time period. Not so coincidentally, a lot of extra liberal feminist student affairs people joined the staff at that time. Luckily, the last of them just retired so hopefully with new leadership we can revisit the GLO issue -- especially since both AEPi and another NIC org have official (for the org) unrecognized (by the school) chapters there.

I think private social clubs are going to be more resistant to social change because of the self-selected nature of members. The present group of members looks for a new set most like them, which tends to perpetuate holding the same ideas and values over time.

There's also a principle that suggest that being in groups with people who are politically the same makes the positions of the group members more extreme than being in groups that are mixed by ideology. (It makes sense. Your constantly reinforcing rather than challenging each other, if nothing else.)

So if the same idea is true in purely social groups, the prevailing ideology of the group may perpetuate itself. Since the groups have set traditions and history, it attracts traditionalist and the cycle continues.

So you wouldn't say that Delta has some values that might be considered conservative in this day and age?

Assuming you mean NPC and IFC groups...how? I don't see it.

Well that comment is based on the way that I see things talked about on this site. I have read threads and posters who suggest that NPC and IFC do things very differently and have very different values in relation to NPHC organizations.

Also, simply the nature of our histories, the social contexts in which they were established, and the purposes for which our organizations were established inherently suggest a difference in values. That gap may be more narrow, wider, or unchanged today, depending on who you ask.

I would say that on a whole the NPC/IFC organizations still tend to be conservative. Certainly I've observed this in the south, but even in the midwest it's there. Why is that? Probably because GLOs were a place where people could be excluded. At first, you didn't have to let in the Catholics or the Jews. Then they slowly became okay, but you still didn't have to let in the African-Americans or Latino/as. Greek organizations have always been a little behind the civil rights movements (with the possible exception of women's suffrage) and more conservative people probably flocked to them as a place where their values were being "upheld" as the norm still.

I think there is truth to that, but I also think that sororities and fraternities are steeped in tradition. That tradition has appeal to those who are more unwilling to embrace new ideas. Tradition is one of the things I love the most about my sorority. It's an unchanging bond in a world of constant change.

Although I am a liberal. And I am still wearing my birkenstocks. *grin*

I certainly haven't observed that NPC and IFC fraternities and sororities tend to attract more conservative people (my sorority had many liberal people, and this was in a very conservative red state). However, I do see that the fact that sororities and fraternities may attract people from higher income levels, which may make sense with the original poster's claims. One thing I would be curious about is whether there were "christian" sororities and fraternities included in the statistics. That would certainly make the statistics come out more conservative, I think. Also, are the Latino/Latina and African-American groups included? If not, this might make the statistics skewed, as well (since at least I've heard that NPC and IFC frats and sororities tend to be whiter than the average college population, unfortunately).

In my experience, I haven't run into too many conservative LGLO members (with the exception of some from Texas). I'd say the vast majority of LGLO members that I know personally are liberals.

I can see some truth in it, but I really think it depends on the region a chapter is located. There are some basic principles that can be upheld by everyone, such as acting with class and dignity, but you can't really make a blanket statement like that.

You will find more conservative people in the south, logically there will be a higher percentage of conservative people involved in any form of a GLO. However, that's not always the case! I would imagine that you would also find more diverse chapters in larger cities based on demographics.

Just my two cents though ;)

I think on a National level all GLOs lean more conservatively than the individual chapters. Probably because older generations are more actively involved the higher up you go in the organization.

Yeah, you might want to not remind people of that.

/Just sayin'


FWIW, it's perfectly correct to refer to both male and female Hispanics as "Latinos". It functions the same way as Alumni/Alumnae.:):):)

For what it's worth, I think the chapters to whom religious, racial, and and ethnic exclusion are their primary motivations for "conservative" people to flock to them are pretty few and far between.

I agree that the ability to exclude may have kept the groups the same over time and didn't present many social challenges to the members internally, but I don't think it explains WHY anyone joins. It's effect is secondary to the other traditions and purposes of the groups.

In my experience, on the whole, members of fraternities and sororities grew up in fairly well-off families. Such families tend to raise kids with conservative values.

My sorority, being local in NY, we had a variety of girls that were attracted to membership (in any greek org on campus) but primarily within our org, it was the girls, our laid back style, house, social and service functions and cheaper dues (... like 600 dollars cheaper) amongst many other reasons. Is it possible that the cheaper dues attracted liberal members? lol, i couldn't even begin to make assumptions about that, but I know it was a bonus for me.

Overall, we were primarily liberal, we had a few conservative members, but there is actually a rule in our consititution that forbade anyone from discussing politics or religion in the house (obvi we didn't always follow this, but the rule made sense and we tried to as best we could)

I think that everything that everyone has brought up are good ideas about why this is (more or less) true. I think that the throw back to older ideals and standards of behavior is responsible (amongst other things, but I'm making a generalization)
However, I'm not from the south, or the midwest (though my family is) and am very liberal (raised that way) so I can't speak of the traditions elsewhere.

p.s. very interesting topic Dionysus

a few guys were liberal and even fewer conserveatives, mostly centrists in my chapter, and....growing excedingly tired of the lib/con polity.

Hmmm, not really. Our values are around service, sisterhood, scholarship and social action. But as you said it is all relative, like considered conservative by whom?

Right and I think for some just the notion of a sorority, with all that is implicit in that, seems conservative. Also, I am sure that Delta as an organization has certain expectations surrounding behaviors and activities where members are concerned that many do feel are conservative. It is a difficult conversation to have because the idea of conservatism is so broad--and I am willing to bet that we were not much of a consideration in much of the research anyway.

We should also consider that in addition to upbringing, beliefs can be cultural or generational. I find as a generation that the current crop is more accepting of some things than mine was.... and I am sure older generations say the same of my generation.

I do not notice this in APO.


Ok, this makes sense.

I'm not sure what you mean by "tradition" in this context.

Thanks.

The "no discussion of politics/religion" rule is a good idea...if people cannot be civil.

Ok. While a lot of NPHC Greeks are democrats, I still think a lot of you guys are on the socially conservative side also. Why do you think that is so?

Or, perhaps, they are people who are open to embracing new ideas, but unwilling in the process to ignore or lose the wisdom of those who have gone before.

I would have been very uncomfortable with and put off by a rule like this. What kind of brotherhood could I experience in my fraternity if I was forbidden or discouraged from discussing the values -- spiritual and political -- that matter to me and that are an intrinsic part of who I am? To me this seems like a cop-out that deprives members of one of the lessons I value from my fraternity experience -- learning that I can still honestly call someone "brother" when we have different views.

First off, interesting topic, Dionysus.

I think Blacks on the whole are pretty socially conservative (a tactic Black Republicans use when explaining their alliance with the GOP) when it comes to issues of homosexuality and abortion ... in general, things that "threaten" the morality of an overwhelmingly Christian upbringing.

We tend to be liberal when it comes to issues that relate to oppression and unfairness.

I think this social conservatism is reflected in the members of our organizations. NPHC organizations may swing slightly to the left, but only because their members have generally been exposed to more education and liberal thinkingthan the average population.

Like I said, we didn't always follow the "rule", it was more of a guideline. If it got out of hand (which it did on a few occasions, but it was mostly outsiders discussing with sisters) it was reinforcement that we should probably stay away from those topics for awhile. However, on the whole, I had really great enriching conversations with my sisters.

I understand what you're saying. I would just rather learn how to talk about those things without it getting out of hand than feel like we had to "stay away from those topics for awhile."

The Spirit of Sigma Chi, as conceived by the Founders more than 150 years ago yet visible and alive today, is based on the theory that...

... Friendship among members, sharing a common belief in an ideal, ...

... and possessing different temperaments, talents, and convictions, ...

... is superior to friendship among members having the same temperaments, talents, and convictions, and that. . .

... Genuine friendship can be maintained without surrendering the principle of individuality or sacrificing one's personal judgment.

"The Spirit" is a concept that comes straight from the founders' unfortunate experience in another fraternity, which the founders saw as a group focused on conformity for political gain. The founders wanted a spirit of nonconformity in Sigma Chi. Though "The Spirit" calls for men who are inherently "different," it is expected that the members, in their differences, remain responsible, honorable, gentlemanly, friendly -- indeed all those characteristics listed in "The Jordan Standard."

I agree with you, I wish it didn't have to be that way.

As usual MysticCat is right on the nail. Why deal with the elephant in the room? If these organizations are for bettering ourselves (which I believe they are, there are certain skills I have learned from my chapter that I wouldn't have elsewhere), then I believe it's also necessary to discuss these topics and learn to be civil to one another. One thing I didn't care for during my active time was being told what to wear, what to say, where to go.
We had one republican in our chapter, whom we all adored. We had jewish girls who just wouldn't participate in the christian aspects of ritual, and who were allowed to observe their religion if it conflicted with a sorority function.

If someone told me I couldn't discuss politics or religion? Hello?! I'm a poli sci major! The only times to avoid it are during recruitment.

You mean, families like the Hilton's? The Richies? (Sorry, I couldn't resist. :))

I think it largely depends on region. I don't see many wealthy families in CA raising conservative kids.

Yeah, and I know many working class people who are quite conservative. I think wealthy families are more likely to be fiscally conservative, but I'm not sure about being more socially conservative.

I am from a very liberal area of the Midwest, and even though some of us are the wicked "L" word, we too have traditions and values. I reminds me of the Murphy Brown/Dan Quayle debate on family values.

There are areas of the midwest that is considered Conservative, but the residents are very poor and uneducated, just as other areas are wealthy and educated. And, the South is considered Conservative whether people are Greek or not. Just look at the Red/Green maps from the last presidential election. I agree with what is said about depending on the area of the country or the house.

One the reasons I joined a sorority was the opportunity for leadership, and last I checked there were both Conservative and Liberal parties in leadership roles of the government. Another reason I joined was the ability to be an individual part of the whole. Maybe it was just my sorority, but my sisters allowed me to be me, and they didn't just accept it, they embraced it. It was a wonderful experience.