Diaper free babies?
 

my sister brought this to my attention yesterday.

in some cultures, where there is no money for pampers, etc. they train their children to use the bathroom on command. it has now become an "american" thing to do, as parents are now potty training their children from birth...i'm not going to comment yet. i want to see where this thread naturally progresses...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20464264...5773?GT1=10316

You know, if parents can find the time (and patience) to do this successfully, then more power to them. I personally wouldn't even try. But I'd never criticize those who do.

Unless someone's hurting/neglecting their child(ren), they should be able to parent however they deem most appropriate. If that means no diapers, great. If that means breastfeeding (even in public), great.

This kinda reminds me of the hospitals in New York that are now banning the use of bottles for the babies in their nursery. Yes, breastmilk is best. But, that doesn't mean formula is dangerous and should be avoided at all costs. Some women physically cannot breastfeed. And it sucks that they're made to feel incompetent as a mom (when they're already at their most vulnerable) because they use formula. At least they're feeding their children appropriate stuff!

Yikes. Didn't mean to get on a soapbox about that. It just really irks me when people - strangers - feel the need to tell others how to raise their children.

a) Why is she teaching her little boy to piss on trees?

b) I've read another article on this, and I have to agree with the other article's assessment that in all actuality, the child is not "potty training" as much as the adult is "signal training" themselves. The child (at least some) has certain signals that indicate that the parent that they have to go potty. The parents recognize and react, instead of the other way around.

how is that? are they requiring that the mother breastfeed or at least try to?

Whaaaat???

What if the baby reacts badly to the mother's milk? What if the mother dies in childbirth?

I'm hoping to heaven that the mothers are made well aware of this policy before they decide to have their baby there.

Oh and as to the diaper free babies, yuck. It just sounds like another thing for parents to brag about. I can't wait till people who DON'T have the time start trying this and their house is knee deep in poo.

My fault. I saw a story on the Today show sometime over the summer about this, and I obviously misunderstood. It seems there isn't such a ban. However, according to this link, free formula samples will not be included in the gift bags moms receive at hospitals in NYC:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ital-gift-bag/

It still bothers me, although not as much as it did when I thought new moms weren't allowed to bottle-feed.

Gross and YUCK

I've emailed this article to all my friends who are expecting. I kindly let them know that i will (1) punch them in the face and (2) never visit their homes if they take this route. :)

Yeah - this sounds like some hippy bullshit, seriously.

I still remember the nursing coach saying something like "Think of formula like alcohol. You wouldn't want to give your baby alcohol, would you?". And pumping wasn't enough for her. It doesn't nurture the mother-baby relationship like actual breastfeeding. It's ok only when absolutely necessary. Oh, and she actually CALLED ME AT HOME at least once every three days to make sure I was still breastfeeding. P.S.Y.C.H.O.

i cant help but think that this would be a great thing to learn, if you were one of those "lucky" mothers of quad/quints/sextuplets...i can imagine you spend thousands on diapers in those cases.

as for the breastfeeding being forced (to me) on NY moms...not very nice. although i support it 100%, and will be breastfeeding when i have my daughter in November, i feel that the tactic used in NY is a bit harsh. i can understand putting brochures in, or a dvd. maybe have some La Leche League volunteers talk to the moms. but to basically pack a bag with breast pads and a tshirt for the baby that says "i eat at mom's" ???

I agree. And, just in case you aren't able to breastfeed (low milk supply, baby reacts negatively to your milk, etc.), don't feel bad if you have to switch to the bottle.

I ended up switching to the bottle with both my kids. And, although I would've liked to have breastfed them exclusively, that just wasn't possible with us. Did I feel guilty? Yes. Is it fair that women are made to feel like failures if they give their babies formula? Absolutely not. But, I've discovered that not much in the world of motherhood is fair.

Oh, and AF... formula = alcohol?!? WTF??? I'd've had a really hard time not giving that coach a piece of my mind.

Back to the diaper story... if one of the concerns motivating this is environmental, then by god, use cloth diapers! :rolleyes: And quit having your kid pee on trees.

i think what would worry me the most is the comfort level your child would have. i just get paranoid knowing he/she is ok with finding a bush and letting go! there is a time and place for everything, can help but think the kid would be super confused after being told "no, you cant go there" after doing it for 2 years.

such as when she helped Lucia relieve herself in a sink at a public restroom.


Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww

ETA: I had friends tell me their kids were potty trained by 9 months and stuff. Personally, I think "potty trained" means that the kid recognizes that they have to use the bathroom, goes in there, pulls down their own clothing, goes, wipes, pulls clothes up and washes hands. All of that together is potty trained to me! I didn't count my kids as potty trained until they did all of that independently.

That's ridiculous.

Ah, ok that makes more sense. I have to say that I agree with this part of it:

Dr. Ruth A. Lawrence, professor of pediatrics at the University of Rochester School of Medicine and chairwoman of the academy’s section on breastfeeding, applauded New York City’s decision to do away with the free formula samples.
“Hospitals don’t normally give things anyway,” she said. “When they send you home, they don’t give you meds and bandages. This was obviously promoted by the formula companies. Free stuff implies an endorsement.”

(although, umm, my hospital has sent me home w/ oodles of meds before)

But by that same token, they shouldn't be giving out tacky t-shirts either.

New moms should all get a gift certificate to Sephora or Saks so they can pamper THEMSELVES, if you ask me. :)

Most of the time I have the attitude to each their own (this is I choice I would never personally make), but when your kid has to pee in a public restroom sink because you don't want them to wear diapers, then we have a BIG problem.

And if people are so concerned about being environmentally friendly, then why not use a cloth diaper service (if you can afford it)?

I also have to wonder when it comes time to properly potty train your child will it be a more difficult task, since the child is conditioned to making hand gestures at specific times of day, versus understanding the urge to go and get a parent to help? Will it be hard to break the original habit practiced since birth?

the tshirt was cute...if you were a mom who decided to nurse and it fit the situation. and free stuff does imply endorsement, but most mothers i dont think would see it that way at all. when i had my daughter, there was nothing in my take-home bag about nursing. there were numerous formula samples and coupons, but that was it. i wasnt offended, but i feel, endorsements or not, it should be equal.

Massachusetts hospitals were having the formula ban when I gave birth, and it wasn't a big deal at all. So what if we didn't get free samples? I did breastfeed, but I had been sent so much formula in the mail anyway that it didn't matter. Those companies find other ways to get your address, they don't need to send you home with formula.

I really hate how the breast vs bottle has become such a war. Who cares what other people do? As long as you are happy with your decision, I am happy. There is so much guilt and depression that women feel at that time, this just adds to it to a number of women.

This is triflin'!

Having had two children I can safely say that BF is not something that you come to naturally (not with the first anyway). And of my two, only one was BF almost exclusively for the time before solids. The other child (my first) and I simply didn't get the hang of it. It was a terrible experience and anyone who has had mastitis (x2) will tell you it is miserable. I say give Bf your best and give it time, but don't beat yourself up for not succeeding. It really is best but formula is not poison.

As for no diapers. Good grief. The thought of a 14 week old peeing in a bathroom sink it just insane. Who thinks of these weird things?

I had mastitis twice too, and the first time I had to be admitted into the hospital for two days. I think I stuck with BF only because my FIL was really pressuring me to, and I was so hormonal and tired I couldn't stand up for myself. I'm glad I pushed through, but I completely understand why anyone wouldn't do it after that. Way too painful, no one tells you about that!

If I saw someone letting their child go in the sink, I'd say something. Thats disgusting.

I'll not comment on this potty training issue. Even though it was expensive, we chose to use a diaper service rather than Pampers, etc. We just felt it was best. Our decision.

Our three children were breastfed with no supplements. The first one wasn't real easy. My wife thought it was important, and stuck with it.

She became one of the very early lactation consultants, working for a group of OB/GYNs out of our home in Detroit. She was a LaLeche League Leader, District Advisor in Michigan, Area Director of Leader Applicants and Area Coordinator of Leaders for Colorado and Wyoming, Regional Administrator of the Mountain Region (covering most of the Southwest) and finally a member of the International Board of Directors for that organization.

She championed and wrote the contents of their meeting for Breastfeeding Working Moms (I don't know if they still use it) although she chose to stay at home with the children.

She has worked with hundreds, perhaps thousands of struggling young mothers.

While I would never consider trying to put words in her mouth, I believe she would pretty much completly agree with DGMarie's comments above.

There are zealots on both sides of pretty much any issue. Either ignore them, or listen to everyone and make a considered decision on what's best for you -- and your baby.

Sorry for the double post, but it's really unfortunate that your FIL (I assume that means Father In Law? -- I can't keep up with all of this internet shorthand) pressured you. That's where a husband should come in and support whatever decision you make since the mother is in a highly emotional time. It's your decision and nobody elses -- especially parents and inlaws.

As for the pain, not all women experience a lot of pain after the initial start. There are a lot of factors involved. If there's a problem, get some help. If the problem goes on, make your own decision on what to do.

Please understand that I am a strong supporter of breastfeeding, and almost all women can do it. The percentage of babys who can't thrive on mother's milk is extremely small (exceptions are often for alergies), but for some it really doesn't work.

for the record, i am jealous!:)

my SIL is the type to kinda turn her nose up at the thought of BF. i told her, give it a try, 2 months down the road and you are tired of running to the store for formula, its too late then!

We cloth diapered without the benefit of a diaper service. Yup, we did it all ourselves.

is there a website or other resource for that? i have no idea where to begin and would love to do that at home to save some money...

Here is a link to a message board about cloth diapering - http://www.mothering.com/discussions...play.php?f=221

There are also some livejournal groups on the subject, if you're on LJ.

Yes that is Father in Law. I shouldn't have written that considering how annoyed people are lately about some mothers writing DD! My husband was great about it and would have been ok if I stopped, but I experienced a lot of PPD that was not expected, and we didn't realize it at first and didn't know how to treat it, etc. So basically our lives were a mess and it as easier to not bother with his father. And I do know his intentions were good.

I think a lot of the problem with breastfeeding is that it isn't easy for most women at first, no matter what many experts say. There's a huge learning curve, and a lot of it is learning as you go. My doctors gave me bad information which was why I developed mastitis the first time, and after having it twice, those milk ducts stopped working. But I was able to learn on my own how to prevent this from happening again, and although I came close twice more to getting sick, I was able to work around it. But much of what I read on the internet and was told was wrong, at least for me. Looking back, I wish the breastfeeding class I took actually taught me something instead of merely stressing the importance of breastfeeding. I'm not sure why I paid $75 to be convinced of something that I already knew I wanted to do.

I think it's best to be supportive of new mothers no matter what (assuming they aren't hurting their babies). Plenty of children grew up with formula and have done fine. I think there's plenty of other issues that are more important out there.

I was blessed to have a great nurse and lactation consultant who observed the first few times I nursed. It's mom's (and baby's) decision, so please don't force the issue when you dont know what is going on with them. It's not "natural" for every mom and baby. It's not pleasant (engorgement, mastitis, latching issues, PAIN) all the time.

Just support mom in whatever she decides to do. And offer to burp the baby.

I am a big supporter of breastfeeding, but I know my limitations. Formula, boob juice, whatever, so long as baby and mom are doing well is all that should matter to anyone involved.

Mothering is a great resource as is:

http://www.amitymama.com/vb/
http://www.diaperpin.com/home.asp
http://www.thediaperhyena.com/
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/981007g.cfm

I found that I did better if I ignored all of the lactation consultant/doctor/unsolicited advice I got and just did what felt natural. So my baby wasn't positioned "just right" and (s)he didn't like switching/burping in the middle of feeding, etc...it worked for us.

True. The best judge of what works is your baby.

My greedy lil thing didnt want to let go until she was good and full.

Likewise, my greedy little things never could get full. They were (and still are) both huge eaters, and I simply couldn't produce enough. The LLL ladies were nice, but they really didn't understand. The pediatrician actually told me that my children were "Failing to Thrive" (I hated that phrase) on my milk alone. Combine that with their subsequent allergy to all dairy products I consumed, and it didn't take me long to figure out that formula was the best option for us. I was bummed, but I got over it... until I had a hard time losing that baby weight! (It's simply AMAZING how many calories you burn when you BF.)

I did cloth diapers, no service, for #1. That is a LOT of laundry - so just know that going in. It seemed like the washer was always going.
I breastfed all four, but #4 "liked to kill me". I was in screaming agony everytime he latched on for 6 weeks - 6 WEEKS. Finally got nipple shields and it worked better. Jeez. Am I glad I did it? Yes.

I miss the cleveage, but nothing else about nursing. :)

Thanks to everyone who had resources for cloth diapers. i found out last week that my 6 week maternity leave will be UNPAID, please do not ask why, because flames will come out of your computer screen!

that being said, we are going to have to wing it on his pay alone for a while, because our savings got depleted when his transmission went a week after my engine blew up!

bf is going to be a godsend. i would have done it anyway and i am glad that i am familiar with it.

I'm very impressed by most of what I read here and congratulate you all for wanting to do what is best for your baby.

Remember that breastfeeding for even one day is better than never at all. Literally.

Also, remember that (at least when we were in the heat of this) doctors get (or at least got) amost no education on breastfeeding in medical school. Then remember that, like there are bad docotors and bad mechanics and bad electricians, there are some bad lactation consultants.

A large part of successful breastfeeding is mechanical, and someone who can actually watch (as nikki1920 wrote above) who knows those mechanics (proper positioning and other tips) can be a great help on getting the breastfeeding relationship off on the right track.

Sincere best wishes to you all from a dad who not only went through watching a wife breastfeed our children, but also spent years listening to an "expert" help other breastfeeding moms.

You are all very special.