Speak up or bite my tongue?
 

So, I was invited to present a talk as a guest lecturer at a university (not my alma mater). After the presentation and Q&A session, I went to lunch with some of the students who attended. We ate in the Student Union on campus.

The Student Union has tables where the sorority members all gather for meals, and flags hang over the tables indicating which tables are for which groups.

It just so happened that my group was sitting right between two sorority tables: the ABCs and the XYZs. And, they're right in the middle of rush.

So, during a lull in the conversation at our table, I overhear members of ABC (who were even wearing ABC shirts, so it wasn't just random people sitting at the ABC table) talking loudly about how bitchy XYZs are, and how they hope PNMs see just how awful they really are. They then proceeded to bad-mouth EVERY other group on campus.

This isn't the first time I've visited this campus, and it also isn't the first time I've experienced ultra-foul behavior from this chapter of ABC. And to top it all off, this chapter of ABC has struggled for a while.

I struggled with what to do. I obviously wasn't going to say anything since I was with a group of students who, as far as I knew, weren't aware of the conversation going on beside us. But I realllllllly wanted to go back to that table afterwards and say, "Look, you don't know me from Adam, and I heard every comment you just made. That was totally inappropriate!" But, I didn't.

I'm friends with an alum from another chapter of ABC, so I'm tempted to contact her and tell her this story. But I always hate to make waves. I know sorority members can harbor ill-will during rush, but this really was excessive... and quite public.

Anyone here have any suggestions? Am I making too much of it? These ABCs aren't doing anything positive for themselves by talking trash about the other groups, but that's not news to anyone here.

I'm just wishing these sorority members knew just how much people observe, even when they don't seem to be paying attention.

^^^ That was a joke. :)

But seriously, I think if you didn't talk to them as it happened, and it's not your organization, you should let it go.

You're probably right.

However, if someone witnessed my chapter doing this, I'd want to know about it. I might not even do anything about it once I knew, but at least I'd feel better prepared in case other things came up.

If they're the struggling chapter, they are just making themselves look like a bunch of sour grapes by dissing all the other groups in public. They're busy with their own destruction without your having to tip them off to the fact that they're asshats. So just let it go.

If your friend the ABC alum was from that chapter and knew the girls, I might mention it, but since she isn't anything she says is going to go in one ear and out the other.

does flagged tables for groups in the student union strike anyone else as seeming really middle school?

Nah.... I've visited schools where this existed and it was more like decoration. It was in no way territorial.

This happened to me. I observed some extremely inappropriate public behavior from some XYZs. I don't know any alumnae personally, so I PM'd a couple of Greekchat XYZ alumnae so that they could decide whether any action was warranted. They were grateful for the heads up, and I believe they got in touch with the chapter's advisors and some changes were made.

I don't think it could hurt for you to tell your ABC alum friend what you heard (or, for that matter, to tell a Greekchat ABC alum). If she thinks the girls need some guidance, she can always get in touch with that chapter's advisors, or an ABC consultant, who will be more persuasive. At any rate, if you let someone know, then an actual member can decide what's best for ABC; right now they don't know what's going on, so they can't make that decision.
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I vote for telling your friend the alum - you do have a dog in this fight, because ABC's behavior reflects on ALL sororities. Your average student with no knowledge of the Greek system would only know that sorority members are back stabbing bitches - it wouldn't matter what letters they are wearing.
Let your friend know your concern, and then let her do with the information what she will.

Ok, let me ask you all this question...

If your sorority was the one in question (ABC), and I sent you a PM saying so, would you be like, "WTF? Why tell me?" or would you think, "Thanks for passing along the info." ???

Oh, and AlphaGamUGAAlum, you're right about the territorial nature of the flagged tables. It screams of middle school, and let me tell you, if you're not Greek and you sit at one of "their" tables, you'll be told (yes, told, not asked) to leave. I've seen it happen and it's not pretty. I'm so glad the Greek culture at my school was nothing like this, or I'd probably never have gotten involved!

Thanks for all the responses, btw.

I think it would really depend on who you send it to in a pm in the GLO. Personally, I'm not overly involved with my alum org or my sorority on a national level, so I'd be like "Oooook... that sucks that it was a chapter of my sorority, but every sorority has bad chapters, right?" As much as I'd like to think that all members of all sororities are perfect little angels, I know that's not the case in the real world. If it were to a member who is clearly more involved than I am, they possibly might be more interested in knowing.

I think it would depend on your relationship with the person you are tell as well as how involved they are. As an alum, I'm pretty involved with my chapter, but I think that how I would react to that situation would also depend on who was telling me and what they thought I was going to do with that information...

It depends on who you pass the info along to. I'd say "Thanks for the info" and this situation would be dealt with. But I'm a Chapter Advisor and that's part of my job IMO. If on the other hand I weren't an active alum I'd probably say something similar to Texas*Princess, "I hate to hear that" and wonder to myself what exactly am I supposed to do with this info?

I guess my question is, why do you care? I do think that sorority women should mind their P's and Q's in public, but that's why they have standards programming built into their membership education program.

If you encounter this again, go up to the girls and say, "I'm a sorority alum from another school and I couldn't help but overhear you bashing the other chapters here. I'm really disappointed and I felt so strongly that I needed to say something-- the way you are talking right now has left me with a very bad impression of your sorority, not the others. I am sure you are all better people than the way you've just portrayed yourselves. Please watch what you're saying in public and please be Panhellenic. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest."

I don't think you need to go reporting them to anyone.

Oh, I don't know, ADPiUCF, as much as I like to deal directly with people and not turn to other people to address something I could handle myself: a group of people willing to publicly and loudly bash another group might not react to a stranger's admonishment as well as we might hope. Unless you have some reason to think they will be receptive, I don't think I'd want to be part of the scene that might follow.

I think that you should find out who the chapter advisor is and tell her. I think usually wouldn't take more than two phone calls to do so: one to Greek life and one to the advisor.

The information just puts any other alumna in a odd position, and might end up doing more harm than good. (If a chapter had never heard a peep out of me ever, why would it be particularly helpful to hear a second hand criticism through me? If enough alumnae hear negative stories about a chapter, will it erodes support for a struggling chapter from within the organization itself?)

Take it to the chapter advisor, or even better, to the undergraduate chapter president.

I agree with you, UGA, that people probably wouldn't be comfortable, but that is what makes me crazy-- Being direct is so much more effective to nip things in the bud. They might not be very nice about it, and they might talk smack about me after I left the table, but I'd bet money that they would think twice about what they say after that. And they'd probably tell other people about their experience-- which would make those people think twice about what they say, as well.

If I said something to my friends and someone overheard it and called me out on it then and there, I'd probably be so embarrassed that I'd watch my P's and Q's 24/7-- much more so than if my president had a private chat with me 2 weeks later or the chapter had to go through a workshop on "Public Relations" (I'd have likely forgotten I ever had such a conversation by that time).

Women are encouraged to be such passive creatures. We're encouraged to never directly confront situations. I hate that -- it severely limits us in our relationships with others, at work, you name it. Men have a serious leg up on us in that respect. Someone ticks them off-- they tell them.

If you have a problem with someone, even a stranger, and there's very little chance that person will retaliate against you, just you owe it yourself to tell them you were offended by their behavior.

Why? They'll be shocked into reality-- and you will probably do much more good by being direct-- both to empower yourself and to correct the other person while she is in the act.

I agree with you about being direct in most areas of like, and for me, it's not even all a question of being entitled to have your concerns addressed, which I agree with; it's about looking kind of foolish when you have to get other people to address your concerns.

(I have some work colleagues who when they run into routine difficulties go to a supervisory employee rather than approach a professional colleague directly, even about issues that objectively defined solutions, like how to get the textbooks that you have signed out. Did they have a lot of success getting their problems solved by tattling when they were kids and never learn to work things out for themselves?)

And it does tend to be women more than men who feel like it's both nicer and more appropriate to handle things this way. It's usually not; you could handle things much better on your own usually, and I agree that it shouldn't be a reflection on your femininity that you chose to, if you approach people politely.

The danger though with a public confrontation with a group of strangers though is that you are likely to lose control of the situation pretty quickly if it turns out that they aren't embarrassed and don't want to mend their ways.

So there's some risk that the situation could escalate, and you'd be part of how this group made Greek Life look bad rather than the person who helped them stop it. You just never know in advance exactly what you are going to get, and if it's an image based problem, how the situation appears to outsiders should be part of the solution, it seems to me.

Oh I would have gone back to the table and siad the "You don't know me from Adam, but..."

I would definitely tell your friend, the alumna...or I'd call the Panhellenic Advisor.

Like I said, I was with people who were seemingly unaware of the conversation. I didn't want to draw attention to it, so I didn't say anything at the time (although this is what I would've done if I had been alone). When I did get the opportunity to go back alone, the ladies were already gone.

I haven't done anything about it yet, and maybe I never will. But I'll certainly keep you all posted.

I think going to the panhellenic advisor is probably a better call than the alum, if you feel strongly that you do not want to let this go. Honestly, this situation might just be a few bad (and inappropriately vocal) apples in the sorority and if you go to the alum, headquarters may likely get notified and involved. While you might think this is warranted, I think that the chapter and panhellenic leadership themselves should be given a chance to handle the problem-girls before creating a bigger fuss than may be necessary.

As a Panhellenic Secretary, I would honestly say that our advisor would have loved to hear about something like this and discussed the issue with the chapter heads immediately. Don't be afraid to call the advisor up! Introduce yourself, alert them of the problem. I would hope that like our advisor, their advisor would understand right away what the problem was and why you were being so helpful and assure you that he/she would take actions.

I thought I'd update everyone on my course of action.

I called the Office of Greek Life at the university in question. I asked to speak to someone regarding a brief encounter I had with a group of sorority girls. I was connected to the Greek Affairs Director.

I explained to the director that I had been on campus as a guest, and that I wasn't personally connected to any alumnae of the group involved, but thought they should be made aware of the girls' behavior, etc. I hadn't even mentioned any sororities yet and she said...

"Let me guess, you heard ABC bashing all the other groups?" I thought, "Wow, someone else must've said something." I replied, "Well, yes, but it was so public, and they were in the middle of rush, blah blah blah." This woman then said, "Yeah, nobody really likes them very much. We're surprised their nationals haven't yanked their charter. They never even get half of quota, while the other groups get quota plus. I can tell their chapter advisor if you want me to, but I can tell you right now she won't do anything but laugh. Don't worry about it - they're bound to be gone soon anyway."

My jaw hit the desk. I honestly couldn't believe this was the response I got. We wrapped up the conversation, and I expect this will be the last anyone there ever hears of the situation. Perhaps that's best... but I'm still a little shocked at the response!

I am too.

It seems terrible that the group's present behavior is about to drive the chapter into the ground when it's possible that alums have no idea what's up today.

Did the Greek Life person mean that the chapter adviser would laugh as in "laugh it off, no big deal, isn't it funny what upsets other people" Or laugh as in, "I can't believe I'm involved in the absurdity of advising such a world class group of losers; at least they won't be active XYZs for long and I can move on to a productive role in XYZ; if I don't laugh, I'll cry" kind of thing.

It's weird, and had I known it was going to get that response, I'd want alumnae to know. The chapter at this college is ruining the good name of the group within the community, and no one locally seems to care?

Sounds like the Greek Life Advisor was worn out by this group. People don't usually sound like defeatists unless they have a reason to. It's a shame that the nationals don't go in and do something about the group. It also sounds like these girls are sore losers who can't figure out that their actions rather than the actions of the successful chapters on campus are to blame for their poor performance during recruitement.

I don't know. I think AOII Angel is right about the GL Director simply being fed up with the group. Maybe she was just projecting her frustration onto ABC's adviser, and just assumed what her response would be. I truly got the feeling that ABC has been a thorn in Panhellenic's side there for a while now. Shame, really, but there's not much anyone (but ABC) can do about it.

Wow. :eek: Sounds like that group's days are numbered. It's a shame.
I agree, if I were an alum of that group, I'd want to know. What about going to the group's Web site and contacting someone in their upper echelons? Or at least writing an anonymous letter?