ROTC and fraternities
 

I was wondering if fraternities frown upon the ROTC program. I am currently enlisted in the US Army and am considering a program called Green to Gold. It is a program that allows enlisted soldiers to be dropped from their enlisted oblications to pursue a education through ROTC and becomed a commissioned officer.
Any help would be great.Thanks

I'd like to know if guys do both fraternities and ROTC nowadays too. When I was at Auburn, a bunch of ROTC cadets were Betas and they were able to do both, probably because there were so many of them. My son would like to try both at Auburn in a couple of years.

I think it's probably alright...
 

SigEp legacy, first of all, thanks for serving our country, and congratulations on pursuing higher education! I am married to a former ROTC cadet and Pike. We went to a small southern school, and it was completely acceptable. In fact, about half of the battalion were Pikes. So, my thinking is, depending on the school, probably, it would be fine to be a part of both college experiences. Good luck!

Several of the Tekes and Sigma Pi's at my campus were in ROTC. Of course, there are going to be conflicts every now and then. Your chapter would have to know that your obligations to ROTC have to come first and you need to be up front about that during rush.

Sidenote: Several Sigma Chi's and other fraternity guys at my school belonged to the National Guard. It was how most of them were paying for college. We tried to schedule dances and special programs around their Guard weekends.

First off, I admire you for what you are doing and second off, I do not think one should have to do with the other.:)

When I started the local, one of our best recruiters was in ROTC and one of our outstanding members went to the Army, taught Dianne Sawyer how to drive a tank at Fort Knox, retired as a Full Bird and is now Commadant of Cadets at the most prestigious Military School not run by the Govt. in Indianna.

Conflict, I certaintly hope not as many of My LXA Brothers along with other GLOs have been important in any and all war efforts!

To edit and add, one of our Chapter Asvisors was head of the ROTC Department. We did not Initiate him. I wish we had!

When I was at Bama...
 

It wasn't frowned on at all. In fact, I had several brothers that were in Air Force and Army ROTC. The only problem that I remember was scheduling conflicts during the pledge semester but those were few and far between. Although it's been over 20 years, I don't think that attitude has changed that much at Bama.

I know this thread's about ROTC and fraternities, but I have to say that I'm so amazed by the growing number of sorority women who also commit their time to ROTC. There's a list of sisters serving in the military on the sisters-only portion of the website, and it seems like the list grows every year.

Several years ago, we extended a bid to a girl who told us up front that she was in the Army ROTC program. We could tell she was very enthusiastic about joining the sisterhood, but she did express concern about how some of her ROTC weekends would conflict with chapter events. We knew her obligations to that came first, so we eventually worked around it. Even though she couldn't fulfill all sorority obligations, she put extra effort in the ones she could attend.

My chapter's a smaller one, so it was easy for her and for us. I can only imagine how it'd be like for the girls who come from chapters with packed calendars!

Oh yes, that still happens in my chapter although not as much as in the 1990s. Back in the early 90s, we had a lot of guys in ROTC.

I can't imagine a fraternity frowning on prospective members' involvement with ROTC. If I were going through rush, I'd keep looking if I ran across a fraternity with a negative attitude towards ROTC.

Carnation, your son should have no trouble doing both at Auburn.

Oh, good! He really thinks he'd like to be a naval engineer.

Thanks for the info!

Considering my fraternity's history (founded at VMI), I can't imagine we wouldn't support a brother in ROTC. My chapter had a couple of them. I knew an ACACIA who was in ROTC.

Thank you for your support SCbelle. It means more than you will ever know.
I am planning on attending the Univ. of Kansas. Does anyone know if the Greek life there is ROTC friendly?

You might want to look at the Sigma Nu recolonization. I understand it's staring back up very soon. They'll be very friendly to ROTC as our organization's origins were at a military academy. We hold the military in very high regards. Also, if you are involved with a colony, you'll have a great deal more influence as to who they are friendly with/supportive of.

Best of luck.

I think we can't state it enough how much it means to all of us for your service to this country. Thank you times a million and counting. I'm pretty sure any fraternity would be honored to have you as a brother, SigEp included wink wink :]

Once again, thank you for the support. I really plan on just getting out and going to school. I will be 24 when I get back to school. Is age frowned upon?

It depends on the organization. In my chapter's case, most likely due to our organization's military underpinnings, we were/are very welcoming of members of the military. I'd hope that wherever you go, because you've served your country, your age ought not be a liability. I can't speak for everyone though.

I think it is very likely that as long as you are otherwise a good fit for a given chapter, your ROTC participiation will be seen as a plus.

However, your age is definitely going to raise a lot of questions.

Kansas is a large state school and while not as competitive as some Greek systems, it is definitely a place where upper tier fraternities have a lot of incoming freshmen who want to be members.

There is not the time or money to get to know each individual to the degree that would be perfect- and so there have to be some arbitrary ways in which to automatically cut down on the candidates to be considered.

For fraternities- ability to pay dues, age/class level and GPA are (in my experience) the most commonly considered arbitrary measures used to cut down on the list of candidates. Such factors can also keep an otherwise ideal candidate from being offered a bid since there are other ideal candidates who meet all those criteria.

Going into rush before you meet guys in the various chapters, anyone who sees your info in advance is going to logically wonder if a 24 year old is going to be willing and able to go through pledgeship and have people 5 years younger than him dictating his personal schedule for a period of time. I am not talking about hazing here- but about suddenly leaving adult life and putting yourself in a situation where people younger than you are going to require your attendance and participation in the chapter.

They will also wonder if you are really going to stick around and pay dues for the full 4 years. No fraternity is going to take a chance on someone who has a good chance of not staying all 4 years when they have another good candidate who will stay and pay dues all 4 years.

And some will be concerned about the reaction of sororities to a 24 year old pledge mingling with much younger women at mixers. I kid you not- this came up years ago at my chapter when a few guys wanted to pledge someone who was 22 and an incoming freshman.

However, all is not lost.

I think anyone would have to agree the above questions are logical concerns of a fraternity who comes across a 24 year old rush candidate.

But all of those concerns can be put to rest if a given chapter knows you well before the rush process and has decided you would make a great addition to the chapter.

In other words- I think you need to find out where you stand well in advance of the rush process.

Kevin has mentioned the recolonization of his GLO at Kansas- a great place to start. Someone with your maturity and military service would surely make an outstanding re-founding father for a chapter. You could have all the fun, but also put your maturity and skills to use- skills that your average college student does not yet possess.

Also, your user name indicates you are a Sig Ep legacy. It never hurts to ask your father (uncle or whoever was a Sig Ep) to make some inquiries with the chapter and help you discreetly make an initial contact with Sig Ep at Kansas (I assume they have a chapter there) so you can go to dinner with some of the guys and they can have a chance to hear your unique situation and then go from there.

Long story short- in your specific situation I think going into formal rush without any prior introduction to any chapters is very likely to result in not getting a bid anywhere worth pledging.

But if you can figure out where specific opportunities lie- meaning the SN recolonization Kevin mentioned and your family connection to Sig Ep- and then get yourself introduced around well in advance of rush, then you will have the most opportunity anyone could ask to be evaluated as a candidate without your age being a limiting factor before anyone knows who you are.

Remember also, both the military and Social Greeks want well rounded men in their organizations.

If you come to Kansas, contact me. I am in Kansas City and a Gorilla Alum from Pittsburg, Ks.

Good luck with your new future endevor!

That's a new one for me. What's a "gorilla alum"?

This is all so disappointing...

Don't be disappointed. This is not impossible.

If you were to go into formal rush at the start of your freshman without having made any former contact with any fraternities, they would say "24 year old?!" and that would be the end of it with at least 50-60% of the chapters on that campus. All the good things you have done with your life would not help you since that late in the game there is just not time for people to hear your story and see that your age should not be hurting your chances to pledge.

But, if as I have suggested, you take steps 6-12 months before the start of school to get in touch with some chapters (starting with the two good contact points you have- Kevin plus your relative who is a Sig Ep), then you go into rush as a 24 year old- but everyone knows your story and realizes that you are not some nut job, but in fact someone who has made life decisions that any real American would admire, and you are coming to college at the right time for you.

As I said, I think you have an opportunity to join the Greek Community. I am just trying to offer thoughts on how you can best do that. And in doing that I have to be honest in saying that yes- on age alone you will hit some walls at some chapters (not all- but some) you might not have otherwise hit.

I go to school at Ole Miss and know a few Sig Eps who are in the ROTC program.

My brother recently graduated from college and was both an ROTC cadet and a member of a fraternity. Several of his fraternity brothers were ROTC as well.

Tom is a graduate of Pittsburg State U. in Kansas. Their mascot is the Gorilla. (One of my chapter advisors was also a Gorilla alumn).

Yea, go to the head of the class on that one. Let me know from PM I sent you.:)

SigEpLegacy, keep your chin up and keep in touch!

Contributing my two cents...

I attended college on an ROTC scholarship. I was very apprehensive when I entered college/went through rush... I attended a traditional southern school (and had heard all kinds of things about southern rush, no doubt) and was initially afraid that sororities would drop me because of it. Of course, that did not happen, although I remained the only girl in my sorority (and in the entire greek system, at that) in ROTC throughout my time in college... I don't think anybody frowned on me for it, but a lot of the girls did not understand why I was doing it.

On the other hand, most of my male friends from ROTC had a greek affiliation. A group of ROTC guys actually helped to colonize a new IFC chapter on campus. Several of our cadre members were greek alumni, too. It is a positive thing... the leadership skills you gain from being in the program are valuable and can be taken back to your respective greek chapter.

I am not familiar with greek life at Kansas, but do not let age stop you. Every fraternity on my campus had at least one person in the pledge class who was not the stereotypical 18 year old. I recall that during my freshman year, one was 26. (And he was a Sig Ep!) Age was never an issue at formals, mixers, or anything else. We were all adults, having a good time.

The comraderie in my ROTC program was amazing. I strongly encourage you to pursue membership in both a fraternity and ROTC. It will be an enriching experience.

The spin
 

You probably should put the proper "spin" on it when you go thru rush, i.e. "I realize I'm older than most kids here, but I really wanted to serve my Country after high school".

My Chi Omega Little Sister married a Kappa Sigma who was in ROTC. I just discovered about a month ago that he is now a Brigadier General at the Pentagon! (Guess that ROTC stuff worked out well for him, huh?)

HERE WE GO BLACKBOYS AN GIRLS
 

check this story out

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20478293...sweek/from/ET/

About 1/3rd of my chapter (of 55 members) is either Active duty, reserve, or ROTC, and interestingly enough, the Colonel of the Army ROTC unit is a Sigma Nu alumni from U of Kansas. Our chapter president is CO of the cadets.

So no, at my school, ROTC is not frowned upon by fraternities, but some fraternities are frowned upon by the training officers because they keep pledges out late before PT in the AM.

My big brother does ROTC and he is on my fraternities executive council

we've had quite a few brothers who were ROTC as well

there were some in other fraternites also, so I'd say overall your chances are good, especially if you are a legacy

We're known as the ROTC fraternity on campus, CSTAFF is made up of mostly our brothers. There shouldn't really be to much conflict. ROTC on my campus is a hell of a lot more hardcore, not trying to step on any toes but it's damn near a corps of cadets, than most schools so I don't see a big problem for you bud.

Trust me, I was 20 going through rush, with a tour of duty in the sandbox to boot. There aren't too many fraternities that would turn down a guy like you. And the ones that do aren't worth pledging anyway! I will be contracting with ROTC in the fall to keep out of another tour, and I already know a bunch of the guys in the program right now are currently in fraternities. I think maybe 4 of the fraternities on campus aren't represented, and with good reason. Just do your homework on the fraternities histories and the guys in each, and you should be fine. Also, like someone said earlier in another thread, talk to the guys discreetly before rush, so they know your situation.

SigEp, my boyfriend was a former ROTC cadet and joined his fraternity after he was released from the program. They all know he was in it and its not a big deal to them.

I also have a friend in Chi Phi who is currently deeply involved in the Army ROTC here. His brothers, and the rest of the Greek community embrace it and support him fully.

My brother was in ROTC and a fraternity. I believe he did club sports as an undergraduate as well.

dont worry about the age as much, older people do rush, i for one, have a 28 year old pledge brother, hes a marine, and a great asset to our house

As a military veteran you will have no problem with pledgeship. As an undergrad with retainability you will not be at an age disadvantage. Because of your experience any house you would want would be very likely to be happy to have you. You bring maturity and seasoning along with real leadership gained where it is earned the hard way. When added to your obvious enthusiasm this has to count heavily in your favor. In older universities where strong multi-generational traditions are the norm this may actually work in your favor. Third or even fourth generation brothers whose families have a tradition of serving their country before serving themselves will probably be your strongest supporters. You have earned your spurs in the brotherhood of warriors. So now go earn your badge in the brotherhood of your fraternity.

(Watch Animal House again and remember that no house wants a fanatic like Niedermeyer. However, any good house will respect your service as they judge how well you fit the chapter). Good luck.

I disagree with this. There is definitely an age disadvantage.

Since he is coming to the University as a freshman he will have 4 years retainability. Army straight out of High School and then rush after active duty sounds like he would fit easily and have a real understanding of brotherhood and the bonding of pledgeship that he already experienced in BCT and AIT not to mention in his active outfit. Assuming he has a reasonable personality and gets along with the house he ought to be good pledge material. He is not really that much older but just enough so that he could be his pledge class rallying point. In a house with strong multi-generational traditions I think he would be a strong possibility. What think you?

We've pledged some guys who just got back from the sandbox, but if you're older than say 22-24 there is going to be a clear disadvantage a lot of houses don't want to pledge guys older than almost everyone in the house.