New Law in ATL Against Sagging Pants
 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070823/..._sagging_pants


I'm all for this. I do have some first amendment concerns, but I think its worth it! What do you all think?

yeah, virginia tried this a while back, last year i believe, and it didnt last. i think it ended because people felt the saggy pants part targeted black youth/males, although the thong part of the law is universal if you ask me.

i dont really have an opinion one way or the other, i dont show my thongs, my hubby wears a belt, so we wont be affected in any way! it just boils down to a lack of home training/supervision.

As much as I hate the look of sagging pants, I can't condone legislating fashion faux pas. If the concern is that children see it and want to emulate it, then their mammas need to show them what's up. And as long as their business is COVERED, I really don't care. Even the jogging bras aren't any different than a bikini at the beach.

I'm not really sure how you can make any of those things illegal ... I mean, a jogging bra has more coverage than a bikini. :rolleyes:

I don't think the pants thing will work because it is targeting young black males.

But if it will stop girls from walking around with their bra straps hanging out...I'm all for it. IT'S CALLED A RACER BACK, PEOPLE, LOOK INTO IT.

Well, I see this as an attempt of the community to place some limits on what the young people are doing. Society has a way of determining what it will and will not tolerate and I think that while it seems like something like sagging pants isn't a big deal, it symbolizes a problem that is surfacing in the broader culture that is spreading. When the clothing issue first started a while ago there was a certain sense that it was simply the kids expressing themselves in that way and it would pass and yada yada yada. Instead what has happened is the kids have and are adopting a mentality that pretty much anything goes and that is not good.

With regard to parenting, yes, I agree that there are many parents who could do more and should be the first line of attack against their kids do that they shouldn't. But I also think that parents need help, especially when there are as many forces coming at the kids that the parents cannot control that well. Time have changed and the things kids face nowadays are much more threatening and widespread than they were years ago when parents had more control over the kids and there was more respect for authority among the kids. I know that there are parents who are doing all that they can to raise their kids right and STILL face battles trying to counteract the forces and trends that are out there.

Getting back to the law, I think you have to be careful when you legislate against certain things because of the constitution and what it provides regarding freedom or speech and expression, etc., but no rights under the constitution are absolute and there are times where the government can legislate against something normally deemed a constitutional right. I think the issues our community are facing call for more serious action. Not all things associated with "black culture" are all that good and there is a need for some measure of limitation or control over what goes on in our community. Just because the sagging pants came out of black culture (if that is even the case) doesn't mean it needs to stay a part of it or that it is great for our culture or our children or our community. If the legislators find that putting a stop to this will lead to the ability to better organize and lead our communities and children then I think its a good thing.

I really don't see this initiative as "targeting young black males" in the sense that it is derogatory and, therefore, should not be passed for that reason alone. The only analogy I can make here is that just because legislators have a particular group in mind when they enact a law does not mean they are invidiously targeting that group to enact a law that will oppress them. Legislators had white males in mind when they legislated against lynching or cross burning. The anti lynching or anti- cross burning laws were not enacted to OPRESS that group, but was to address a broader social problem. You can relate that same principle to this. They may have had black males in mind when they thought of the ordinance, but not to oppress them, rather to address a broader social problem that has resulted from their actions. Strange comparison, I know, but it was the first one that I thought of when I read the comments on this law targeting black males. Sometimes I think it helps to look at these things from both side to help realize how important flexibility in the law is. If white males had been able to claim that the anti lynching or cross burning laws should have been struck down simply because they unduly targeted them and infringed on their constitutional rights to speech and epxression (which they technically did, except for the lynching) those laws ever would have passed. It was the necessity of control that the laws addressed that caused them to stick. Now, sagging pants are in no way in the same realm as what was being caused by the acts of the lynchers and cross burners, but the legal principles are waht I am trying to highlight here.

As I said, regardless of the group who started the activitiy, if it is causing problems in the society, then society can and should address it.

-And, as with other aspects of "the culture" its no longer just black males who allow their pants to sag so I don't even think it would unduly target young black males at this point.

In any event, the law does not disallow regulations just because it will have a greater impact on a certain race or group of people. It must be shown that there was discriminatory intent when the law was passed that will cause it to be struck down. Here, I don't see discriminatory intent. It may not have passed or lasted in other states, but I think it may eventually stick if the problems the law seeks to address outweigh the threat the law poses to their constitutional rights, which is all that is needed for a law like this to pass. If its struck down, I don't think it will be on discrimination grounds. It will have to be struck down on other grounds because the discrimination just is not there, in my opinion.

why do i just KNOW you look in the back of Glamour shaking your head at
the black barred DON'Ts? :D


http://mirror21.video.blip.tv/Niccif...8-304-dont.jpgdoes anyone else find this offensive, because this is what that law would try to prevent...THANK GOD!

I've got no problem with the law. While it clearly is aimed at black teens, any ignant can wear his pants sagging in public, so it speaks to the issue not the person.

http://mirror21.video.blip.tv/Niccif...8-304-dont.jpg[/QUOTE]

Now I'm definitely against this. That thong is being asked to stretch like $5 two weeks from payday. that just ain't right.

Exactly. While seeing a young man's pants practically at his knees makes me want to beat him with my belt then make him wear it, to make it illegal is going overboard. The land of the free can't make you pay because your pants are sitting too many inches below your waist. That's just too much. And as far as racial profiling, I can't really speak on that. I'm from an extremely diverse area, so this is not something associated with Black teens to me--all boys wear their pants like this, no matter what they are. *shrug* But I can see how it can be construed as a racial attack (and rightfully so) in a not-so-diverse place like Atlanta, so I'll let others debate it out.

You think so? I guess it depends on your definitions, but still ...

Oh, I know that ATL has many cultures represented. I just mean that it'd be one thing if the city was such a melting pot that you couldn't say there was a specific race being targeted but, since Atlanta is known as "the Black Mecca," no one could really make that argument stick.

So you're using diverse to mean a how much different groups blend?

Legislating fashion is one of the more ridiculous things I have heard. I have NO problems with private and public schools being allowed to set standards for appropriate clothing, that makes sense. This is just dumb.

If parents are tired of seeing their 14-year olds aping these fashions then they need to make sure that little Susie isn't out there buying thongs with their money, not expecting a police officer to waste their time arresting, or more likely ticketing her, for being a fashion victim.

Waste of time and effort on legislation that would be about as effective as laws on the books banning the drinking of coca-cola on Sundays.

By diverse I mean how many cultures/races are represented vs. how many there are. Atlanta encompasses many cultures/races yet when people think "Atlanta" many, if not most, think "Black people." So while it may be "diverse" it does not always appear so to everyone.

http://mirror21.video.blip.tv/Niccif...8-304-dont.jpg

Just wrong, Tony! :D

I think I'm a little torn on this law. I would love, love, love to see people not sag any more, but making it a law? I dunno.

We are getting less free with every passing day. Next there will be a law against wearing "ethnic" hairstyles.

I think the problem is that people are so busy looking for the "RACIAL" aspect that they don't see reality. This legislation is not specifically an "attack" on the young black male, but a regulation of what is acceptable in society. I, as an upstanding, productive citizen of this country, should not be ASSAULTED and insulted EVERY time I walk out the door by seeing some young man, black or white, with his pants to his knees! WHAT ABOUT ME?! What about MY rights? While it may appear to be a "regulation on fashion," I think it is serving a greater good.

Take a look back at fashion over the years. Lots of fashion trends have come and gone: Cross Colours, 8 Ball Jackets, Bell Bottoms, biker shorts with the neon stripe down the side, leg warmers, big a** Africa emblems around the neck, airbrush jeans, jumpers with one shoulder unhooked, etc. (NOTE: If you are still wearing any of these things, sorry if I offended you. However, we might need to talk after this post....) These trends have all faded into fond memories. However, this sagging pants thing has gotten worse and worse. In fact, I have seen several young men, including one last night, whose pants were (SERIOUSLY) buckled about one inch above his knee! It's ridulous....

Lastly, I think that the notion that parents should be the first line of defense holds little to no merit in today's society. Many of today's parents are NOT our parents. We need to keep that in mind. We are talking about kids who are 15, their parents are 27, and their grandparents are 40. If your daddy AND your grandfather dresses like you do, from where are you to draw your example? Most of these young men are raised by the hood and know nothing better. This foolishness must be controlled somehow.

This foolishness does NOT need to be legislated. I'm sorry if you don't like the style but that really doesn't give us the right to legislate against it.

I have seen one young man whose pants were at his KNEES with a belt around them and his dumb behind was HOLDING THEM UP.

Appropriate reaction? Lots of laughing and clowning. It's the only thing that will really make the style die anyway.

I think this is completely out of line. I don't see a valid reason to create a law against something simply because society does not like it. Sure, I don't like the trend, but I'm not harmed by it. I also don't really care if someone decides to wear it.

Will there soon be regulation determing how much cleavage I can show? What about how short my shorts or skirt can be? Plenty of people are offended by showing too much of these body parts. What is the difference?

Everyone has a different perspective and has been affected by it in different manners. My experiences may be different than others, therefore, I feel it is appropriate. I don't want to see your pubic hairs and butt crack when I walk out the door, male or female. I don't want to see some chick's breasts neither. So, if all that needs to be regulated, so be it. If you want to dress like you live in a nudist colony, why the hell should I suffer because of it? Public decency needs to be restored.

While I can respect everyone's opinion that it can/should not be legislated against, at what point do we start leaving our own decency behind to accomodate folks that want to stage a peep show everytime they walk out the door? There should be a point when folks stop making excuses and shrugging their shoulders. Something needs to be done because obvious other methods of control (of lack thereof) are NOT working.

The more I think about this, I can't help but feel like this is going to backfire in one of two ways:

1. People go to fashion extremes to get attention. Bringing these trends to government officials to create a new law=attention. I feel in my bones that if this becomes an actual law, then suddenly it'll multipy to the point where for every person cited, there'll be five more who got away.

2. How many people still ride in the carpool lane even though there's a fine? How many people still litter even though there's a fine? How many people still go over the speed limit even though there's a fine? People j-walk, spray graffiti, and ride in cars without seatbelts every single day even though all of these things infringe on other people's rights and/or safety and I don't see anybody's law eliminating them. The only thing that's going to end this ridiculousness is to just let them keep sagging until they trip because their pants were at their ankles.;)

Something needs to be done. Are we going to enact legislation with those in gothic garb? I don't like to see azzes out either, but I sure can't stand to see that gothic look either. When does it end?


Oh, I see thousands of males, primarily AFAm males EVERYDAY from 7:05-2:40, who like to show their boxers and such. Then, they will tell you you have no reason looking down there, when you see their underwear exposed. :rolleyes:


Bynch slaps are needed from the great grandma on down. :rolleyes:

Agreement over what is "public decency" anymore is shifting. Society is such a freakshow that what was shocking is merely passe' anymore. Every generation pushes the envelope and that, in part, is reflected here, too. But communities have to be given the right, in some regard, to set and maintain "approved" standards.

If this is bad legislation, someone will bring it to the ballot and we can fight about it then. But since increasing numbers of peeps are clearly intent on bearing most all of it now, I support the legislative proposal.

I hate this aspect of Atlanta more than most, and I think this is a stupid proposition.

The law seems to be only enforceable if someones underwear is showing. So then it further asks the question of enforceability. So someone could, theoretically, sag their pants down to their knees, so long as their shirt is also long enough to cover their ass? I don't understand if the law is truly against folks showing their draws in public or is it potshot against urban culture? I say the former.

I'm down for both, but it is still a stupid law in my opinion. Good points on enforceability, however.

I understand that some people are offended by this fashion trend. I understand that others may be made uncomfortable by it and think it is inappropriate. I still don't see where it becomes a matter that should be legally enforced. Is it really such a nuisance to the majority of society? I also wonder why this one issue is being addressed and others are not. I know there are plenty of people who are offended by the sayings that are on t-shirts nowadays. Several others are uncomfortable with facial piercings and the spiky hair look. Why is sagging pants the one trend that needs to be legislated?

I haven't been to Atlanta in a while, so maybe it's more severe down there.