Raining on someone's recruitment parade
 

I'm as guilty of highjacks as anyone and I know that I've done exactly what I'm about to ask about, but the Auburn thread really drove home for me how unfortunate it is when we let negativity overtake a thread that was originally and essentially about a young women having a fabulous recruitment.

Maybe when we want to jump into a thread with a story that contradicts the tone of the main teller, we should start a new thread, like "a different Auburn experience" or something?

(I'm not talking about the times we give release figure tutorials while we're waiting to hear a particular PNMs results, but busting up a positive story to interject a lot of negative results seemed a little lame. The concerns should be aired and discussed; just not in the 1st girl's thread, or so it seems to me now. )

I agree with you, AlphaGamUGaAlum. GCers,please don't rip on a heartbroken mom. In times of distress, and let me tell you that having your daughter go through a SEC recruitment is one of those, you may say things that you do or don't mean. You're tired, tense, your daughter may be heartbroken and she doesn't understand why girls with much lower GPAs and practically no activities are sailing gloriously through recruitment and she's only got a couple of groups left and they don't seem all that interested or interesting either. I don't think anyone can understand the horrible pain of seeing your children suffer rejection unless they've been there. Only having watched someone else suffer that just doesn't qualify.

I'm no helicopter parent-we have too many to me to hover too closely, yet I have felt the stark pain of some of my girls as 6 rushed over the past 7 years. There are at least 8 moms on GC this very day who know all too well what it's like to have a daughter rush. If you haven't had a child in a very selective situation, you can't begin to understand it.:(

Any other GC moms who are rush veterans care to comment?

I concur. I don't think it's right for an excited mom/relative/friend to have to preface their own updates with "I'm really truly sorry for everything that's been going on with the other PNMs..." in order to feel like she can celebrate the PNM's successes.

I understand the particular thread in question was titled "Auburn University Rush" and may therefore have been confusing to a new GC member who wouldn't have been able to tell that was someone's recruitment story, NOT a general forum for questions/concerns about AU Recruitment.

Still, this is not the first time it's happened. I recall last year (or maybe the year before) someone going into a SEC recruitment story and saying something like "I'm really glad yours worked out, but I feel this whole process was so unfair, I was dropped from every sorority and I feel like such a loser" and essentially hijacking the PNM's celebratory thread. After that, everyone was replying with advice/concern for the dropped PNM and the original PNM actually had to apologize for interrupting the hijack in her own story to post more happy updates about her new member period.

That said, I think GCers should definitely have a place to air concerns or get support through a difficult recruitment. I'm not insensitive to the fact that recruitment (ESPECIALLY SEC recruitment) can be downright heartbreaking for hundreds of PNMs and their loved ones and that GCers really can act like "Rho Chis" for nervous moms and sisters. I think GC can be an invaluable resource, no matter what the outcome.

Perhaps people can chime in with their suggestions on Recruitment Story "etiquette" and how we can minimize hijacks of a particular person's recruitment story.

My first particular rule of thumb I'd like to propose: Start a "General Support" thread to be bumped periodically during recruitment season where we can direct people who have disappointing outcomes about a different PNM (or even off topic questions/concerns/complaints etc) in order to maintain the general flow of the original story.

Could a moderator move the hijack to a new thread, with a forwarding message?

If you look at Auburn Mom's first post, she invites others to join in and share their stories; thus all the stories met the forum. The support from posters in the past has always been that "support." When someone needs to vent for support, it is always nice to be supportive- I don't think we need to attack. Perhaps, in the future, the moderator could encourage one story per thread. Still, when all the outcomes are happy...as those in a very southern rush, we don't mind the hijack?

PT and I will see if we remember how to split a thread--haha!--but I see this thread as referring to 2 things. First, don't hijack somebody else's thread. But second, don't jump down the throat of someone who's obviously in pain, even if you don't understand her pain at all.

Ok, maybe I am confused here. Obviously I have some interest in greek like seeing that I am in a sorority, but it is me or are some of these parents of PNMs crazy?!?!!?

I mean there is a mom who questioned if her daughter even belongs at Auburn due to getting cut. WTF?!?! College is for education everything else are frills! I think people shouldn't be allowed to Rush/Pledge/Membership intake until sophomore year. I understand being excited for your child, but I don't think (actually she would not have been) my mom would have been destroyed if I had not gotten into AKA. Then the lady said she WAS a member of a sorority and wouldn't have changed it for anything in the world......WAS.....I thought lifetime goes beyond college years.

I don't think Auburnmom will be that affected, she can just post her news as she sees fit.

I just don't get it! There is more to college and life, some of these people sound sucidial. They need to seek counciling rather than greek life.

If you don't get in.....so what.....life goes on! Life does not begin with a sorority nor does it end there. So if anyone can give me a logical reason why these people are so weird then let me know.

This vvv was posted in the other thread and it is soooo fitting!

I do think it's fine when people post results similar to the main thread; if it's going well, additional positive results are great; if the original turned bad, other similar results are fine.

The main problem that I saw was that the additional posters' stories were detracting from the OPs story. And I think that once the OP establishes her code, it's pretty much her thread and despite her inclusiveness, it would be better if others posted their own PNMs stories where we can offer support without contradicting the OP's story.

The moms, sisters and other pnms are all worthy of their own threads and support. They should just be mindful and not make someone else's thread all about them.

OK, but why are they nuts? They act like the world is going to end. Sororities have the right to choose who they want.....since when is greek life something that everyone has to have?

Like I said before, maybe its just me.

A-FREAKING-MEN. I have never been through an SEC recruitment and I thank God for that, so go ahead and rip me all you want for what I have to say next because I don't care.

I wanted to give FloridaTish a round of applause for this:

I don't see this as "ripping" on the mom. I see this as reacting to the comments the mom left. If this mom is in so much "pain", maybe she should take a deep breath and step back and not post when she's too emotional. God knows I've had to learn how to do that.

There are more of us out there who didn't go through an SEC recruitment. That said, reactions like FloridaTish's, 1908Revelations, and mine should be expected even if you don't like it. :rolleyes:

The comment about adding another sorority at Auburn and even questioning her daughter's decision to attend there was just too much. No handholding here, sorry.

[...this thread to be deleted in 5....4...3...2...1]

I can't answer that except to repeat that I think SEC rush makes people crazy.

I think we should keep in mind that almost all the moms, sisters, and friends are saying it here on GC because they'd never let themselves say it in real life. It truly is just to vent their worst thoughts.

If you sent your child off to college, and her first big experience seemed to be complete social rejection*, I bet you'd wonder if she was in the right place too.

I have a hard time relating to it completely because I don't have any kids of my own and my own mother was more from the "yeah, that's too bad, now move on" school of parenting, which is woefully underrated today.

ETA: I know this SEC stuff is just weird, but try to be emotionally generous in these cases where we have every reason to accept that we've got a real person here who feels terrible about what just happened to her kid. It's not like she's asking you to sign a petition; you just have to avoid ridiculing her.


(*and it is only that is "seems" this way.)

Carnation says I should put my post back, so here's what I think. It hurts a lot more for your child to be hurt than it does if you are hurt yourself. If my daughter's recruitment had been disappointing for her, I would have been extremely negative and bitter. Her rush turned out great, (She's also a Chi O), but I remember being upset because she couldn't understand why she was released from a couple of chapters after the third round. I can entirely see why momto2 is so unhappy and confused. If my child was crying and feeling bad about herself, you'd better believe I'd be upset and mad. I'd also think all those girls were all nuts if they didn't want my beautiful, smart daughter in their chapter. Until you've had a daughter go through, you can only imagine how you would feel if your daughter was rejected, especially when you know that she is just as terrific as many of the girls who received bids.

OTW.....You are my new best friend!!:D:D



I do understand the notion of not wanting your loved ones to be unhappy and grieving with them, but then there is a time to 'pull yourself up by your boot straps'! After you pat your kid on the back you shouldn't say "What is wrong with my daughter?" Tell her about other organizations to belong to. Greek life is not everything. Believe it or not if someones wonderful, brilliant, super smart rhodes scholar daughter gets cut....the world keeps going.

I think I am like AlphaGamUGA's mom: Give words of encouragement then tell em' "Yeah, that's too bad....now move on"

I worked at a zoo for 5 years after college and I could tell you about getting between a Mama and her Cubs. Don't mess with the babies. It's reasonable for a Mother to feel pain when her child has a bad experience.
Sorry about adding to the hijack. I truly thought it was "open mike night" on that thread.

Jobellesis, I respect your points and I'm in complete greement with most of them.

I think the reason I jumped in the fray in the other thread (and I would highly resent ANYONE characterizing my response to momof2 as an attack -- I felt I worded my response as politely as possible) is that I felt she was telling us that she was blaming her daughter.. or at the very least, putting undue pressure on her daughter who just was released from one of the most competitive and stressful recruitments in the country.

I very much understand and respect what Carnation is saying -- that none of us who haven't had daughters go through recruitment can really understand what it's like to be a mom in that position. That said, I know what it's like to be a PNM and I can't tell you how heartbroken I'd be if my mom called me up after I was dropped from all groups on my campus and asked me if I "really tried hard enough" and if I "took this seriously" and questioned whether or not I belonged at my own college!

At the end of the day, no matter HOW heartbreaking a recruitment is for a PNM's mom, it is the PNM that faces the rejection. If a PNM wants to tell her mom that's she's going to be alright and that it's "not a big deal" that she was cut, there could be myriad reasons for why she says that. Maybe it really isn't a big deal to her. Maybe she's humiliated and doesn't want her mom to worry. Maybe she's crushed but trying to put the whole thing in perspective. I feel horribly for the moms on this board whose daughters have difficult recruitments, but I really can't excuse a heartbroken mom if she says hurtful things about her daughter -- even under the cloak of internet anonymity and message board venting.

Momto2 will probably calm down and help her daughter move on after she's had a while to think. If her daughter has always wanted a sorority experience, it may take a little time for them to regroup. Some people (me included) need to blow off steam. Let's face it, though. The sorority experience can be terrific, and it's sad and disappointing to think you may not get to be a part of something that special.

I agree that the pnms are doing all they can and need no more pressure or blame from anyone if they are cut. (I would quote AChiOhSnap, but I not too good at quoting). Very seldom is a cut a personal thing, as we all know. On the other hand, if you're the one that's been cut by everyone, it has to hurt. While I agree that we should all be strong enough to move on, I can honestly say that I would have probably felt sad and rejected if this had happened to my child or me.

QUOTED from Auburnmom's FIRST post: I know that there are several GCer’s with friends/relatives rushing at Auburn this fall, so I figured if we all worked together, we could give you all enough details to keep you interested and tide you over until you get a real rush story (or at a minimal we can chat amongst ourselves while we wait for our daughter’s/relatives results)!

Sorry, I don't know how to do the quote thing- I believe she said "work together." I kind of think she was asking for others to join in and chat while WE wait for OUR (plural pronouns, I believe) results-- So I guess personally, I don't believe anyone could be guilty for changing the thread- I enjoyed learning about flowers, while Sweet Tea was in recruitment, and I wasn't offended, and I am guessing the op wasn't offended either.

Amen! When your daughter calls you and is crying and asking you "what's wrong with me?", well...your heart breaks - into a million pieces. And maybe you don't have the most emotional response and you vent on a public forum out of sheer frustration and inability to fix your daughter's hurt. Should we fix it? Probably not - it's one of life's tough lessons and we all know that it will be okay in the long run. But this is not a rational situation...this is an emotional situation. And nothing tugs at a mother's heart more than our children - both their hurts and their joys.

And, by the way, it doesn't matter if it's an SEC recruitment or the most non-competitive recruitment in the US (or Canada!), when your child hurts...your child hurts.

ETA: I realize the other poster didn't say her daughter was responding in the way I indicated above. I was referring more generally to when a daughter struggles with recruitment and how a mom might react.

I understand that moms of PNMs feel badly for their daughters who don't get a bid from a sorority; after all, it is a fairly public rejection. However, momto2girls' post -- even if it was typed in the "heat of the moment" -- sounded stage-motherish to me. There is no reason for her to question her daughter's enrollment at Auburn just because she didn't receive a bid. Life does, and will, go on!

I rushed twice in college and was never invited to join a sorority. Certainly both of my parents felt bad for me, but they didn't try to assign blame to the university or the Panhellenic system for what had happened. Looking back now 20+ years, I see that at that time I was not sorority material, plain and simple. The process may not be "fair", but to quote another GCer, it is what it is.

FWIW, I know plenty of wonderful girls who were successful rushing as sophomores and got into the sorority of their choice. Granted I didn't attend an SEC school, but Duke's rush was/is plenty competitive in its own right.

ETA: I won't lie...even after all this time, it still stings a bit when I think about how I was never offered membership into a collegiate sisterhood. But the rejection forced me to come out of my shell in other ways.

THANK YOU. I think everyone understands that PNM Mamas can get a little emotional when their daughters have difficult recruitments and I don't think anyone is saying that we should attack them for being upset and sad, and even angry at the system.

momto2 let her disappointment manifest into what sounded like anger and disappointment towards her daughter.

I hope everyone can understand the distinction I'm trying to make here.

You honestly don't see a difference between a digression about what flowers will grow in the South and a complete critique of how groups at Auburn choose their members in the middle of the story of a girl who is having a great rush? The problem is not the additional stories as much as the content of the additional stories.

And I want to emphasize that I'm not trying to find anyone guilty; I just want us to do a better job in the future if we can. I happen to believe that if you are going to contradict the main story, you should go ahead and start your own thread. Why would that be bad? let the happy people tell their happy stories and let the critiques take place in a different thread.

Starting new threads does not cost us a penny.

I like the idea of starting a thread for mamas in pain.....unless you have a child who has been hurt like this you cannot imagine how it feels. A place to find support, especially from those who have "been there" would, IMO, be a good thing.

It would also be helpful to hear from girls who had survived this particular ordeal. We all know that life goes on, but in that particular moment you might not be so sure......

I think that parents sometimes overmagnify their childrens' "problems". I personally deal with lots and lots of college students and their parents everyday. I recently had a parent call in worried that her son's first semester schedule was *too easy* and wanted to know if "people" (Who? Employers? Grad schools?) would look down on him later for not picking a more challenging first semester as a freshman. :confused:

In my experiences, the student may be worried or upset; but, the parent often *adds to it*. Sometimes the student isn't bothered at all; but some parents can turn a survivable situation into an international incident.

I was a little concerned about the one mom's statements that maybe her daughter selected the wrong school based on the recruitment results. Wow. I understand being upset for your child; but wow. A university is for an education. The co-curricular activities are great; but, pick a university where you will be in a solid program for your major.

I was also intrigued by her comments regarding being in a sorority so that she can get priority housing next year. To me, that seems like a poor reason to join. If the daughter was saying things like that to the women in the sororities, then that may have something to do with her being cut.

For those of you with kids, I've been reading your reasonings and I can only try to understand. Perhaps when I'm a parent, I will understand better. However, as someone who deals with parents of college students, you all don't realize how awkward you sound sometimes. :o

Sorry to disagree (not with Navane), I guess I see talking about Auburn recruitment as part of what Auburnmom asked for in her initial post- I didn't see anything wrong with flowers either- added some interest to the waiting (just like auburnmom suggested in her post too)- I think a gentle, "I disagree with your comments about Auburn recruitment and let's move the discussion, so those still involved in recruitment will continue to post here" would be appropriate-- I'm just saying that the initial post invited several stories- maybe the link should have immediately changed to "kate's recruitment story only."

The OP can not change the name of the thread, maybe a mod or super mod. But I do see what you are saying.

OTW...Thank you for your support on my comment on the Auburn thread! I am a mom myself and although I have 14 more years to go before my daughter goes through recruitment, there is NO WAY I could ever make comments like she did if my daughter was not successful during rush. I agree with everything 1908 & AChiOSnap has said as well...

I'm not sorry that I said it and I can't help it if I thought it came across as really bitchy to say something like that to your daughter who just had a major disappointment (?)...Not to mention her mom wanting her to join so she could get priority housing?

Anyway, OTW...you are my Hawaiian Hero!

-Tish:D

And we also have no indication from the OP that she wanted it to only be Kate's story. I don't even know that it bugged her. But it just seems like we could do better in the future, generally.

Highjacks unrelated to the thread while we wait, for me a yes. Who doesn't love a good what-does-the-Greenbook-say discussion?

Addition stories thrown in to complement the main story, for me, a yes. Who doesn't love to share the happiness or support?

Stories and highjacks that undercut the OPs experience, for me, start a new thread. Don't make a happy thread into your support group, don't make a support thread into how it all worked out for your niece.

Similarly, don't wear your wedding dress to a funeral or talk all about your ex-husband at a bridal shower.

yes- the point I was trying to make is that we don't know as the title was vague. Also, when one of the mom's added her daughter, it wasn't sad at the time (wasn't as positive as Kate's) but she hadn't been released yet--- this has been an interesting thread- and I do believe moms need a place to vent when things aren't going right, just like pnms need a place to ask questions before recruitment, and parents/sisters/friends need a place to share-- I just think we can all be a little more empathetic when we post our disagreements-- (side bar: unfortunately, the weather has just turned sunny 6:00 skies to stormy 9:00-like skies, and I won't be able to see the rest until later)--

I missed the to do, but saying it's ok to post similar stories, but not contradictory stories, doesn't make much sense to me.

And it sounds like mom was less supportive than destructive in her comments to her daughter. I'd be saying the same things to her that others have said here.

i think that one point some might have missed is that even if the mother did make that statement to her daughter,(and we don't know if she did) it was already said and no amount of chastisement would reverse that. the mom was hurting, and if she did say those things, was probably feeling worse for saying them. gc'ers did not need to kick her when she was down. i hope that she was able to comfort her daughter-it must have been an awful time for both mother and daughter- and i think that the mom shared her feelings with us seeking comfort for herself.

i also wonder if the statement about whether auburn was the place for her daughter was said in the heat of the moment. perhaps she felt that if the sororities felt that her daughter would not fit into their chapters(trying to use her logic), then maybe she would not fit in anywhere at auburn-that she must not be the typical auburn student, since she did not receive a bid. we may not agree with the logic, but i would imagine that when something devastating like this happens-and yes, it can be devastating to some-there is a lot of second guessing that goes on amongst pnm and parents.

I'm all about posting all the stories: I just don't think the people who do the work of the recruitment thread with code names and reporting results after each round should necessarily have their threads preempted by people complaining and looking for support about the evils of the system at large. Do it. Just do it in another thread. That's all.

I'm fine with general mom support groups or complaint threads about problems at specific campuses. But the "Congratulations, Kate" at the end of the Auburn thread are going to ring a little hallow after all the "SEC recruitment is just so wrong" type of junk in the middle. Why do that?

I can understand that, and would give leeway to a PNM, but not a parent in that regard. I'd expect more maturity from a parent than that, heat of the moment or no. And there was no indication that the comment was said and later retracted. If I were the daughter in that situation, I'd be ten times more pissed off at my mother than the recruitment system at Auburn. (yes, I caught up in the reading)
A) She asked for other people's experiences. Unfortunately, those experiences turned out to be negative ones. I think that some posters went over board with the "OMG AUBURN SUCKS *mass exodus of PNMs* I wouldn't want to be a part of those groups" thing. (Again, from adults :rolleyes:) That said, it's all part of a discussion about recruitment at a super-competitive well-known school, particularly when many of those involved don't have any experience with SEC recruitment.

I have a feeling that those posters who were ripping on Auburn in general won't be the same ones congratulating the OPs daughter if she gets a bid. And I don't think that it's incongruous to have a negative stories and positive ones in the same thread. Those posters didn't know that their friend/sister/daughter etc was going to get cut when they started posting.

^^^^You do have a point about them not knowing. I was just shocked that one of them called me silly for suggesting other people (not her) start thier own thread.

But I do see what you mean.

Drollefille, I know what you're saying about interjecting stories that you don't know will have an unhappy ending and I think it's fair to say that those aren't really good examples. Even in that circumstance, however, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a newly disappointed PNM/PNM Mamma to refrain from posting a rant or call for support in a thread that's taken a generally happy tone for another PNM. If we had a support thread for disappointments, I think that would be a more appropriate forum and would prevent people with positive stories from having to post disclaimers in order to share theirs or their daughter's happiness -- AND it might be less frustrating for the disappointed party to not be reminded of "what could have been."

That said, I think that instances like momof2's first post, which had negative overtones, it might be more conducive to the general flow of the recruitment story to encourage the interjecting poster to take up the issue in another thread. Especially since momof2 asked a bunch of questions that were really going to take the thread in a totally separate direction.

And even in this case, and the hijacking of AuburnMom's thread may have not been the best example of this, but I KNOW in the past unhappy PNMs have responded to happy outcomes with stuff like "Glad you went AXiD, I wish I could have gone somewhere. I was dropped from every chapter on campus, etc. etc." I like the idea of having a separate support thread for unhappy/negative/angry/offtopic questions to prevent a complete derailment of an otherwise okay thread.

ETA: I still think generally encouraging disappointed PNMs or whoever to post in a thread other than a happy recruitment thread is a good idea. AuburnMom's now gone on record as saying that she didn't care about the diversions from her story, but I still think it's been a problem in the past and it might be a good thing to consider for the future.

My 2 Cents....
 

My first exposure to the Auburn rush scene was when my daughter and I visited the campus last year. It happened to be a mother/daughter weekend for the campus sororities and we were able to meet several mothers and daughters. All of them had the same feeling about rush at Auburn, and they all said that as parents you just have to steel yourself. They all said that the girls are under so much pressure both emotionally and physically (excessive heat, lack of sleep) that they just will break down and loose perspective on the whole situation. Is it really worse than at non-SEC schools? I have no idea. All I know is that it is common for Auburn parents to get tear filled phone calls from their daughters throughout the week. I should think that it is the same at other schools. What makes SEC recruitment so much different? Perhaps a thread to prepare parents for what they may face when their child rushes would be a good idea. Not only can we lay down expectations but also give advice on how to positively react when things go badly. That's just my two cents! ( however, I really want to know why SEC rush is so different?):):

While AuburnMom invited others to chime in about recruitment at Auburn, she probably had no idea what could happen to the thread. Even if there wasn't Momof2gals' story to "rain on her parade", it makes more sense to start a new thread just for simplicity and readability. I am sure that Momof2gals didn't mean any harm by posting her daughter's story, but it did get to the point this morning that I thought "Gee what is AuburnMom going to say now? Is she going to feel like she has to apologize?" Turns out that her daughter had the best possible news, a full schedule of chapters, all of which she could see herself in.

New PNM = New thread Yea or Nay?

Yea, but mostly for purely selfish reasons other than what we've discussed tonight. I actually like reading the whole story (complete with codenames, if applicable) and I always think it's such a letdown when someone posts the start of a story in another thread and then posts again a week later, after bid day, with "Oh yeah! PNM Daughter went DG!" I like the buildup and the surprise.

Um...it's not that it's SEC rush, it's rush with a HUGE number of girls (Ole Miss, Auburn, Alabama, FSU, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, as well as Illinois, Michigan and lots of other places folks can add). These girls may or may not have mamas, grandmamas, aunts, and cousins in sororities, as well as their older high school friends who graduated before them, all talking to them about sororities.
LOTS of emphasis is placed on pledging the "right" sorority, especially during "tent talk." (And the first time I heard that talk was during my freshman orientation, weeks before rush).
Add that to hundreds of girls apparently getting bids, everybody but you...heat, exhaustion, immaturity, emotional turmoil...you can see how it can turn into a bit of mass hysteria!!:eek: