NPHC Secretiveness, Insularity, Etc.
 

In the thread on the Iota chapter pres getting arrested:

I've seen this sort of attitude a lot from members of NPHC GLOs, and it kinda bugs me. It seems like the NPHC refuses to talk about itself and the way they do things.

Please note, I'm not ragging on any organization, I'm honestly curious as to WHY.

Examples of the secretiveness and insularity:

Getting snippy (as above) when people post about RM issues or just issues that are going to cause PR problems for greeks in general when those issues involve a member of an NPHC fraternity or sorority.

Refusing to talk about how to join an NPHC org. I mean, if someone comes on and asks how to go about joining their local XYZ chapter, and the answer is: fill out the application at www.xyz.org/join/app.pdf and turn it in to your local president who should be listed at www.xyz.org/chapters/presidents.html, why don't they just say that? or even just say go to www.xyz.org, click join, and follow the directions there. Seriously, even joining the masons, those bastions of secrecy and cloak-and-dagger conspiracies, is as simple as going up to a mason and saying, "Hi! How can I join the masons?" NPC and NIC orgs make it extremely clear how to join: Go through formal rush, or make friends with a bunch of group members during informal rush, if we like you, we'll take you.

Now, normally I find conspiracy theories silly and far-fetched, but all this gives me just the slightest suspicion that maybe there is some sinister purpose behind certain organizations.

I'm not trolling here, I'm honestly curious for the reason behind all the secrecy, and I'm sure others are, as well.

We do have a sinister purpose. Dunh, Dunh, Dunnnnnnhh! :D

Actually, when most people ask questions about NPHC membership, the standard answer is to visit www.xyz.org for more information, and actually all of the information that a person might need is accessible on those websites.

Most of us will not discuss membership over the internet because of protocol within our organizations.

well thats cuz we're really a close nit group. we look out for each other, even tho we talk shit and diss each other all the time, only we can do that to each other. its like we're a family in a sense, and when someone from the outside comes at us in anyway, we'll defend each other. now, i personally had no problems wit the iota story, cuz it really isnt about iota phi theta, its about one person who happens to be an iota. just like dude is African, it doesnt really reflect upon all africans right???

and about the tryin to join part. we dont like to tell pplz how to join, cuz they should find out on their own. thats what google & each org/chapters websites are for. and even, its still a whole lot more to it then just fill out the app, and turn it in. and i'ma take a page out of ya'llz book..."THAT'S WHY YOU'RE NPC AND WE'RE NPHC..."

IMHO, as a member of a BGLO - though not the spokesperson of all at all, I've been taught that family business is just that - family business. It's not that we refuse to talk about the issues of our organizations, we just refuse to do so with those not in our orgs.

If you had a personal problem with your mother and brother, would you invite others into your home to view your conflict and pass their judgement? I'd like to think no. The same theory applies here.

As far as how to join NPHC, many NPHC forum moderators have made it clear that our forums are not areas for such questions (i.e. Torch to Guide You, Pearls of Wisdom). Our national websites give information on membership and do so very clearly. If one cannot perform a google search and dig up info as simple as that - they needn't try to apply for any of our orgs, IMO. (It's clearly not impossible if our membership ranges up to hundreds of thousands.)

Sinister purpose because we don't air our dirty laundry or give simpleton "How-to-join" sessions, please stop. Not at all. In fact, I would call those things responsible...professional...perhaps even *gasp* exclusive.

Shoot, SistergreekLittle - You told our secret! Sinister purpose! Darn you and your tattle tale ways.:p You're kicked out the D9. Now.:D

I am seriously contemplating writing a book about the culture of Black Greek life, involving what a typical (read: proper) membership process might look like from the aspirant phase to the neophyte & prophyte phases. I plan to include other aspects of Black Greek life including service projects, meetings (committee and general), conventions/conclaves, and of course, the ever popular parties and step shows.

In a sense, it will be an updated version of "From Here To Fraternity" written by Robert Egan back in '83, but exclusively for Black Greeks*. I plan to give it a jovial slant for easier reading. But posts like Siggy's clearly tell me we need a book that explains Black Greek culture not necessarily from an academic perspective, but from a regular joe/jane perspective. It also tells me that our insular and secretive nature while on the one hand is necessary, on the other hand gives non-NPHCers (Greek or otherwise) a very one-dimensional perspective of what Black Greek life is all about. And quite honestly, our culture, while very powerful and influential, isn't nearly as deep as we would like to believe it is.

*In Egan's book FHTE, there are brief mentions and blurbs about Black Greek life here and there, but I knew we needed our own version of the book when Egan described Black Greeks strolling at a party as "Picture the Wall Street stock market pits with the traders on acid, bopping and swinging their arms...." Hence my assertion that Black Greeks are seen one-dimensionally. That's why we spend a lot of time having to defend why we do what we do, when it really isn't necessary to do that if more was explained at the outset.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

I think he's moreso referring to issues involving NPHC orgs collectively than issues involving any one particular org. IMHO he was using the Iota scenario only as an example.

But I could be wrong....

I am a member of an NPHC organization who believes that any and everybody is fair game to be criticized and critiqued.

When an aspirant of my organization posts on GC, I will PM him and give guidance.

It's not an institutional thing, it's a function of the members on GC. Whatever.

I think that all of us do give guidance to aspirants (even I have done this and I am still very new); for me, even these discussions have their limitations, which are circumscribed by my organization. Also, because I have seen what can happen when that sort of situation goes wrong, way back in the day here on G. C., I am hesitant to do that. I am much more open to discussing my organization in person than I am over the internet, but that is pretty much the case with most things about my life.

Infamous. :p

Ok, thanks. You've answered a lot of my questions, and while I can completely understand the "keep it in the family" thing, I kinda have to disagree when it's already moved beyond the family, as in when it makes the news, or when a chapter is shut down.

Now, if I understood why people got so obsessed with stepping... It sounds like someone joining a HWGLO for the homecoming activities... *shrug*

And who exactly is "obsessed" with stepping?

It has been my understanding that the D9 orgs work togehter so that there is consistency among our groups. Just as the NPC has the Green book, which I've nerver seen btw, to give their recruitment consistency among the chapters, the D9 has decided that we will share a level of consistency. That is why we refer PNMs to the IHQ's website. All that the PNM needs to know is there. Any further steps are handled in person.

I also agree with what Little32 has said. ;)

That was a joke. It just seemed like, a little while back, there was a glut of posts that had "stepping" in the title.

Now, if I understood why people got so obsessed with "Greek Week" ... It sounds like you're joining your org just so you can still have field day like in elementary school.

:rolleyes:

membership has its priviledges...

I did :P

Actually I never made it to greek week, my body was going up the creek and it was the week after initiation. Shame, if I'd been in prime shape I could have kicked some tail at the kickball tourney.

I think you asked some good questions here. As far as membership questions, I would not say that our responses involve any "secrecy" but I would say "exclusive". (agreeing with Infamous' response). I'm just being blunt right now but I find that most (not all) people on GC who have asked membership questions are pretty stupid. I have received PMs from people asking advice that I cannot give, such questions as "how can I make them like me?" So after a while your responses do tend to sound a little snippy.

I agree.

I agree with Infamous and BlueReign. There was a point, in the before time, when we did discuss membership and, on the whole, information was given freely. What stopped it, as BlueReign mentioned, was the attitude of the aspirants and the development of internet guidelines. In that vein, it's a risk management issue.

There's also a certain level of trust- after a certain amount of trollishness, dishonesty and plain ol LAZINESS on behalf of aspirants, people stopped wanting to hear it. You can't research your prospective org by emailing strangers on websites and expect great success, and folks weren't seeing a lot of effort beyond that.

Wise sisterfriends understand that and work with it- staying here to make friends and enjoy camaraderie that may evolve into a real connection, others get the reactions they deserve.

I have a bit of a different take on this. There are different systems of intake which puts the onus on the aspirant to seek out the organization amongst BGLOs. Thus, the attitude of the organizations to its role to the aspirant, traditionally speaking, is like that of a neophyte to the mystery religions in the Greco-Roman world. But the model of the traditionally white GLOs makes sense in an extremely competitive environment where, because you often have palatial homes for undergrads, you have to have members, so active recruitment is a must. BGLOs for the most part operate under the competitive model of an oligopoly. If NPHC groups changed their MO and started major building programs for their undergrad chapters, they'd have to change also.Screw the false mystification of this phenomenon.

On a wider note, the "insularity" which was made note of does, I think, have to do with the segregated nature of reality in this society,to a large extent. For most of our histories NPHC organizations have operated outside of the purview of the "mainstream media" in our world. Only in the '70s and '80s did our groups expand en masse to predominantly white campuses and become subject to the rules and regulations of this milieu. There were ensuing cultural conflicts and misunderstandings made more relevant by lack of trust and different practices in the BGLO context. (I was a part of group that started the first BGLO on my campus in '79-'80; those supervising us refused to give our Constitution/ByLaws to the Greek Life Office which had them for all the extant groups on campus.)

Finally, this attitude not only operates interorganizationally but intraorganiztionally more than it should. From our churches to other organizations (including BGLOs) the leadership and leadership ethos TENDS to be very closed and authoritarian. And the culture of secrecy goes with this.This is something that needs to change for the overall health of the organizations. I know that this is something that is discussed in my organization a lot by those who have been in national leadership and who've been around for a long time. (An extreme example of this is the leadership crisis in ZPHIB which recently spilled over into the "mainstream media" b/c the Feds were going to get involved.) In reality, all GLOs have intraorganiztional issues; more transparency will us good. The bottom line is this: if we want to exist in the wider arena at the intercollegiate level, we'd better get used to the greater scrutiny that comes with the present climate in relation to risk management issues and college administrations tightening up on all GLOs. If you want to play, you gotta pay!Many of us in BGLOs act as if we're still operating in a segregated environment and that we can do as we please.

Jeez Wolfman,

Please post more! You're posts are really thought-provoking! PM me sometime if you wanna have a discussion about culture, race and Greek orgs...I'm doing a lot of research on it

Pz
Nate

While I see what you mean, it's interesting in that for the NPC/IFC GLOs, we tend to think more on the lines of "S/he's nervous, so telling them to just be themselves will help them both by keeping them from being so nervous AND by hopefully dissuading anyone from changing themselves for recruitment." The difference in how we approach potential members probably has something to do with the fact that NPC groups tend to value NMs more than NPHC, from what I've seen. By that, I mean that we [at least at my campus] don't haze, encourage them to get into positions and be elected as early as possible, and don't disregard their opinions just because the're younger in the sorority. NPHC, on the other hand, has a bad rep for hazing on my campus and I've seen many people on here saying, "You're a neo, so what do you know?"

If that's NOT how it really is, say something, someone. It's just what I've witnessed here and at my campus.

I am hesitant to continue posting in this thread because I am not about defending the practices of my organization, which I am still learning about.

As a new member, I have been encouraged to join committees and assume leadership roles within my chapter. However, I also understand that I have a good deal to learn about the workings of my organization and sometimes the best way to do that is to observe.

fantASTic, the "neo" comments that you have observed are probably more in jest than anything else, and I would hope that you would not continue to believe that NPC orgs value their NMs more that BGLOs (the culture of our organizations just demonstrates that value differently). For all of us, new members are the life blood of our organizations, without them none of our organizations would last very long.

To Wolfman: While I agree with some of your post, I wonder how much would you suggest that NPHC organization alter about its culture and practices in order to "play on the bigger field," so to speak. PM me, if you want to continue the conversation privately.

fantASTic..... I strongly suggest talking to someone more knowledgeable in real life, like a Greek affairs administrator. I think that what you see on GC and what you experience in real life are valid, but I think it takes something a little "extra" to understand certain nuances about how and why we do things the way we do them. I suggest an administrator because they have the experience and the patience to explain things a little better than we probably will.

I do believe that some of your comments paint NPHC orgs with a wide brush -- we, for example, don't have "New Members." We have aspirants, who then become whatever they are called during that organization's Membership Intake Process, then we have members.

Trust me, for all of the time, energy, effort, money, etc., spent on the membership intake process, we DEFINITELY value those people that are going through. You don't SEE that because it's private.

^^And when I was responding to her post, I was thinking more of a neo/new member correlation, which is not correct.

Per my feelings and convictions about this matter, I will post here what I have to say to combat what I've just written about. If it's not about ritualistic matters (and not just traditions which are just practices that have grown up and are respected) and matters which have to do with proprietary information and intraorganizational gossip, it's should be talked about in public forums.

To my point. There has to be real dialogue and engagement on these issues between all parties for each group to hammer out what the parameters are. It just doesn't go one way! But I do know this:this culture of secrecy, esp. as it relates to hazing has to be changed. First, we have to get into the heads and hearts of members that we have to give up this sense of entitlement about Greek life. All Greek chapters are INVITED GUESTS on every campus. We live in an extremely litigious society and every institution is about protecting their ass(ets). GLOs represent a major matter of exposure to colleges and universities. We have to understand this and realize we exist on their campuses at their behest. We don't have inalienable rights in this matter! I'm very much in favor of maintaining the richness of BGLO traditions but they have to be devoid of the physical hazing aspect. Without question, the traditionally white GLOs have done a better job in addressing alcohol abuse issues in a programmatic and real way than we have of hazing, even though there is undergraduate rebellion in their midst and non-compliance, too.

Case in point. Amongst NPHC groups, more open dialogue and transparency amongst the rank and file would have been better in crafting a better solution to the wholesale abolition of pledging in 1990. This decision had the result of making pledging a sub rosa activity and the culture of hazing more more distorted in some ways. This is the reason why my fraternity is exploring bringing pledging back. But this issue does not exist in a cultureal vacuum. We are not simply accountable to our groups and the sometime secretive cultures that exist in them at different levels (just like in police depts., the military,etc. where exposing misconduct or certain apects of its inner workings of the institution can be viewed as a betrayal of the group); we are accountable to our host educational institutions and, increasingly, the legal and penal system. This will increasingly become the case if we act as we do now.

A few random thoughts on the fly!

In Delta it is. It is specifically against our protocol and code of conduct, especially during a certain time of year.

Just to be clear, Delta changed her intake process before the rest of the NPHC. We had a period where chapters piloted the new program, evaluated it and that in turn led to some tweaking. Then it was voted on at a national convention. You also need to understand that this whole process change started because host institutions were threatening to eliminate all NPHC orgs on their yards, because of the hazing that was occuring.

And notice I said hazing and not pledging, because in my mind they will always be two different things.

Thanks. This clarifies, for me, parts of your earlier post.

To the OP: As a moderator for the AKA Ave Forum, I am dictated by our International HQ to NEVER DISCUSS MEMBERSHIP INTAKE with prospectives beyond "Hello and go to AKA1908.com"

I can NOT have my dues increase because random people tell prospectives crazy things. The GC AKA Ave. has over 2-3 posts per week regarding membership that are deleted. We even have a clear statement that we will NOT discuss membership. We will not discuss it and it will NEVER happen. We are holding our membership to ONE ACCORD for legitmacy as known by the Corporate Office to our member assumed to be lifelong members...


Wolfman: While I believe you all are quite eager to change the climate of your membership, have you all sustained the monetary blows to be of service to your communities?

The issue is the transition state between Undergraduate to Graduate Chapter does not translate. We lose members who wear the badge but fail do the work they commited themselves to do as "youth". We might have reactivation very late in one's life but the Sorority had dramatically changed from their initiation. We, as African Americans, cannot afford the loss...

What one sees on a college campus is NOT what is observed in the community by the Alumni. While we serve our respective communities, the undergraduate students do not have funds to maintain superior PR as the graduate chapters. It costs money to place ads in newspapers these days. Most universities student governments fail to include even IFC/NPC greeks, much less NPHC or MCGLO's. And universities NEVER give their rooms out to hold events as required by my International HQ. And we are a city-wide chapter.

There other issues, such as youth failing to understand the commitment. Yes, an re-introduction of an above ground pledge period that can misconstrued as hazing would be nice. But I know for a fact that Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. buried those thoughts in more ways than one...

Hmm..

I know of a few people(NPHC, NPC) thought having an "All-Greek" event where it would be a big cookout on the lake with people from every GLO on campus (IFC, NPC, NPHC, MGC). There would also be a tag football game with 1-2 people from each org.

It was kinda late in the year when we thought of it, but we hope to start it next year.

The big reason is that there is a huge division between the councils and there is no sense of unity within the Greek System.

I understand the D9 *hush*, but the point is also that many people are confused and mislead by lack of knowledge.
They hear about the hazing and assume that it is going on badly in every org on campus! no joke.....although I laughed when someone I knew said it.

Quite frankly, how would anyone know differently without taking out a portion of their day to do so (99% of people wouldn't)? There are none of the information meetings or discussion at all about the organizations (to the best of my knowledge).

Why not have an open hall during New Student Week where evey org has a few people and a sign/banner/board where they talk about their philanthropy/values/history for a couple of hours?

Both of these events would be good for the new students, current actives, and the system itself (everyone could use good exposure).

Sometimes, it is good to talk about (certain) things.

Several campi do have "Meet the Greeks". Some include all the councils, many don't... Also, the fact the many campi admins are "antigreek" overall, suggests that intervention by elders may be required. However, young people fail to ask us or ask us at the last minute--especially when matters are worse...

My undergraduate chapter that my graduate chapter oversees, has interacted with 2-3 different non-NPHC GLO's.

Child, some campuses do those things. On those campuses where the lack of information seems to be detrimental to the system, then talk to your greek affairs people -- seriously!

Yeah, on my campus there is a small thing that is done by a few of the councils individually - but not a collective....not a place where a student could explore all of their options.

There is not unity. There are quite a few people pushing for it, but IMO people have retained many of the prejudices against the Orgs. (this is a two way street).

As stupid as it seems....
-We follow the same guidelines
-Have similar structure (positions, philanthropy, tradition)
-Go to the same School (Go to class together)
-Have friends in each others' org.
-Belong to the same non-Greek groups

Why does it seem like such a strech for a lil' Greek unity too? - What council may be right for your friend, may not right for you.

Part of the issue is the inherent segregation placed on the campus. You met these "other greeks" in your classes and maybe an occassional view of a "yard show". Your greek life office failed to foster unity, probably because the ADULTS are not unified...

We cannot ask our young people to show unity when we, as a adults, aren't unified... During your parties at your house, have you invited any of the ethnic GLO's to assist you?

Moreover, there is a historical reason why many in the NPHC do not own houses near a large university...

At San Diego State University, I hooked up with 2-3 IFC's to inherently assist them in their classes. As a result, I started get my own Sorority undergraduate members assistance that I have never observed before. The kids came back to me and told all kinds of things.

Also, San Diego State University, was building a new greek row. They reorganized their greek life office and all GLO's started having the administration assistance in student affairs and perpetuating philathropy. I do not know how it now. But it I was involved in the early workings to see the changes taking place.

You know, the whole greek thing is funny on my campus.

Overall:
Fraternities are being rung out by the university.
Sororities could not be stronger!

BTW: Annual step show is SOLD OUT+ every year. You will see a lot of the MGC groups there, some people from the PNC, and very few IFC.

No one hates anyone else, there is just this distinct division. Granted, many of the orgs on campus have history going on 75 years + at that school for NPC and IFC. Houses make a big exporsure difference too, I think. Since all the greek houses are on campus, people see them very often. (Even I live in the Fraternity Quads - small dorm.) It is hard to break into that. Some of the Multi-cultural orgs. are extremely cliquish(w/hazing) and by doing so harm the others who are not. Since the NPC and IFC orgs are larger numbers per group, there is a more heavily enforced regulation.

Scenario: 30 XYZ pledges are hazed and 8 ABC pledges are hazed. It is a lot easier to get 1 XYZ to tell than 1 ABC based purely on numbers.

A lot of the *hush* is not just D9 stuff - or even the secrecy.

Its really a number run IMO.
i.e. They are smaller. there has to be a reason why they are smaller, must be hiding something, something weird must be going on.

Not to mention the prejudices/experiences of some people's parents that were in college 20-30 years ago (two way street - remember).

Org's will never be looked at the same way b/c they are inherently different (from their beginning) anyway... :(

PM me when you can... :)

ChildOftheHorn, you need to slow your roll. For real.

You were just initiated this past semester, right? You can't possibly know all there is to know about even your own organization, much less others to say that they MUST be smaller for a reason.

You're throwing about the word "hazing" an awful lot -- have you reported it? Or do you just like perpetuating gossip about cultural Greeks at Northwestern?

Please plead the fif before you seriously incriminate youself. You are commenting on things you have little to no knowledge of. "They are smaller. there has to be a reason why they are smaller, must be hiding something, something weird must be going on." Seriously? You wanna play numbers? Let's play.