Is it time to change who we think of as legacies?
 

There have been many threads on here about certain schools having to cut lots of women who are legacies because there are more legacies rushing than there are spaces in quota. Plus the new release figures compel the more successful chapters to release more women sooner. Sometimes these women are so disappointed they drop out of rush altogether and their female relatives stop supporting the sorority as alumnae.

There have also been threads about how women feel pressured by their female relatives to pledge their legacy chapter even if they don't fit in, or how a woman will end up getting cut from all the other chapters because they assume she'll pledge her legacy chapter - so her options are removed, even if that's not necessarily what she wanted to do.

As more women enter college, more women will go through rush and these issues will keep reappearing.

Is the legacy system "broken"? Could it perhaps be improved by tightening the requirements of who is a legacy (i.e. daughters only, same chapter only), or should it be done away with altogether? Or is this an isolated thing that only happens at a few schools in the country (i.e. the SEC and such) and the system of legacies as is is working out great for the NPC groups on the whole?

I don't know the answers, but I agree that it's difficult to imagine how the legacy policies can remain significant as a higher and higher percentage of the population goes to college.

The part of the policies, if you have them, that require that a legacy be invited to the first invitation round seem like they could go on forever, but they don't mean much.

Having a different standard for legacies from the same chapter might be the way to go for any kind of deeper level of deference to the PNM legacy.

I don't think it needs to be generally advertised to your non-legacy chapters where your relative initiated, but that's more of a competitive culture than anything else. I think it is easy enough to change that by not asking the question on a recruitment application. It's no one's business except for the legacy sorority. Similiarly, the individual sorority rec forms really have no business asking you what other sorority influences/legacy status you might have. Maybe it's for statistical purposes, but I think it hurts the PNMs. Some chapters automatically assume a young woman will join her legacy sorority. And then when the legacy gets cut by her mother's sorority b/c she isn't a fit for that chapter, she has no where to go... or fewer options at the very least.

If you were to put a college admissions committee and a sorority membership team side by side, there are a lot of similiarities-- the grades, the activities, "celebrity status," diversity, etc.-- as things that are considered in admissions.

In university admissions, some minority groups receive additional special consideration. It doesn't guarantee them a spot, but it can help because the university is committed to helping these groups achieve greater presence in higher education.

Legacies are like our minorities for the purposes of recruitment-- we want to give them some special additional consideration, but it isn't a free pass. It never has been, and it never should be. I would hate to be a legacy and think the only reason I received a membership bid was because the chapter "had to," and not because they wanted to.

I don't think the legacy consideration needs review, but I do think that legacies shouldn't be required to make their status publicly known.

After reading all the posts about it, I have basically decided that my daughters will NOT list their legacy sororities on the general registration form- those sororities will be notified, and the others really don't need the information.

It seems like the biggest benefit of a PNM's legacy status is that her family is knowledgeable/supportive of Greek life. When a college freshman comes into recruitment having talked with a family member who was in a sorority, she is probably more aware of all the different kinds of commitments (time, money, grades, etc.) required by sorority life than her peers who may not have a relationship with a sorority member.

Perhaps it would suffice for a PNM to simply say she has X relatives who were in NPC groups. Heck, it might even be helpful to say she has Y male relatives who were in NIC groups. (After all, fraternity life, I'm assuming, also requires similar commitments.)

Since legacy status means such different things depending on the campus, I think it would be difficult for NPC to come up with a blanket change that would be beneficial to everyone.

I think this is fine, but be aware that it might not be foolproof. I know our rec form asks about the PNM's family Greek affiliations. You could neglect to provide it to the rec. writers not from the legacy groups, I guess.

Well, you can only do what you can only do. Several of the campuses my 17 yr. old is looking at do NOT have Gamma Phi chapters (:() so on those campuses I would list all Gamma Phis to show that she has a greek background. On the others, I would not want her to put it on the general application, and when talking to the women in my Alumnae Panhellenic ( who would probably be the rec writers) I would ask them not to mention their legacy status, unless it was to THEIR glo. I've now got a network developed enough to basically get recs from all glos from my a.pl, friends or family, so that helps.

At Tennessee, when a PNM registers only the sorority she is legacy can she that she has listed that sorority. This has been standard since we started using the ICS system for registration and invites, etc. This protects the legacy to some extent but if she has an in house sister, everyone knows it already.

As long as you have some way of addressing it with the rec. writers who do know of the groups I think it's going to be great.

I'm at a stage of life where my interest tends to work more from the perspective of the girl going through than it does for the group. I might find it a little moral quandary if I knew of a girl's legacy status at other groups and she asked me not to reveal it, but in most cases, I only know if they directly tell me, so it'd be really easy for them to control.

(I hate to be such a nerd, but we have a little blank for it, and to consciously omit information requested would seem a smidgen wrong.)

and as more women enter college, the more likely that those who do rush could be legacies. i mean, there are more likely to be SGRho legacies in 2007 than, let's say, 1967. you just figure with ever generation there are an exponential amount more legacy PNMs. and of course not EVERY COLLEGE WOMAN will rush and accept a bid, but you are bound to have more and more legacies during recruitment as time goes on.

Hmmm . . . in that case, I might call the chapter advisor and let her know that the pnm is a legacy, but she wants an opportunity to make up her own mind and so doesn't want to list her legacy glo. Then you have let the chapter advisor know, and she can do with the information what she will.

Getting back to the OP's question...

My first instinct is to differentiate between the daughters of active alumnae and daughters of those that haven't been involved since college. I don't really know how you'd determine this, though, and it would be an administrative nightmare.

My mom, for example, was an active member for four years, graduated in good standing, and that was the end of it. Did I deserve the same consideration as Suzie Rushee whose mom is president of the local alumnae chapter?

Also, Chi Omega's policy of not including grandmothers is interesting, because your mom was a legacy, and she either continued the tradition or didn't. If sh did, you are a legacy through your mom, and if she didn't, then maybe Chi Omega isn't that important to your family.

What groups include more than daughters, sisters, and grand-daughters?

We never had a problem with too many legs in my chapter, but that's not surprising, because Phi Mu is not that prominent in the Midwest.

That is the way I'd like my daughter to go if she does decide to rush. I want her to be able to choose where she is a member and not be unfairly cut just because of my choice.

We do.

I like the level of detail and explanation in that policy. It explains exactly what can be expected.

Just curious - how many groups have a national policy regarding the rules with regarding legacy PNM's? I know we do.

"Phi Mu defines a legacy as a sister, half-sister, step-sister, daughter, step-daughter, granddaughter or great-granddaughter of a Phi Mu (living or deceased)."

I didn't realize we counted great-granddaughters! Have we always?

I think this issue should be discussed at the next NPC meeting following most R. NPC can't decide the policy for each and every GLO, but there needs to be a round-table discussion concerning the legacy situation.

Should Patty PNM, whose mother hasn't been involved in 20 years be given the same consideration as Pammy PNM, whose mother is Chapter Advisor? Maybe. Maybe Patty's mother was Homecoming Queen, Chapter President, joined the Peace Corps and found a cure for cancer. Maybe Pammy's mother hadn't been involved until she woke up four years before and realized, "Omigosh! Pammy's going to be going thru R in four years!" and immediately bulldozes her way into the nearest Alumnae Association. THIS is where a rec should be working.

We could probably make a list of questions which could be discussed. And that would be my suggestion.

Actually, I include everything listed to be a sister, daughter, or granddaughter. I should have been clearer, but in my own life, I don't differentiate between blood and legal relations, and I don't think our groups should either.

I am more surprised by nieces, cousins, that sort of thing.

(and good catch, Erin, on the great-granddaughters...there just can't be all that many of those)

Alpha Xi Delta includes nieces and step-relatives ... providing the Alpha Xi requests it.

Not always the case. If your mom went to a university with no Chi O chapter, that doesn't mean Chi O wasn't important to her family. If your mom didn't pledge any GLO for whatever reason, that still doesn't mean Chi O wasn't important to her family. Also, what if Chi O released her? Chi O might have been high on your mom's list, but she was never given the chance to become a member because of the chapter's choice.

Most people probably don't realize we count them as legacies. Shoot. I'm a Phi Mu and didn't know we considered great-granddaughters legacies.

My daughters were legacies to ZTA, Sigma Kappa, PiPhi, and had recs to Phi MU, Kappa Gamma, and Tri Delta....at a large southern school, and they chose a totally different way...:rolleyes:
Would I like to have them go Zeta...of course, but they have to do what is important to them. They couldn't be happier.:)
ZTA72

Sigma Kappa includes neices as well as specifically including step-____s

So which way did your daughters go?

Here's a link to our Legacy Policy on the public portion of the site. http://www.sigmakappa.org/join/defau...t&page2=legacy The Private Side has a more detailed description of everything in the VPR Handbook.

I find it interesting, especially since I never thought twice about it before, that SK includes step-nieces. Does anyone else?

I also was interested by the fact that AOII listed adopted relations. I wouldn't think to not automatically include adopted relations so I was surprised that it needed to be specified.

One of my chapter sisters was adopted along with her identical twin sister. They went to different schools and her sister went ZTA. It never occured to me that their younger sister, bio-daughter of their parents, could possibly not be considered a legacy to both groups.

I don't know. I admire the idea, but it lends itself to being too subjective in actual execution. And creates a lot of unnecessary work.

And again, the PNM wonders-- did I just get in because of my mom's involvement or did they actually want me?

I think a chapter is going to be pressured not to drop the great-great-granddaughter of a Founder or the sorority National Treasurer's neice, but for the most part.... I don't see why legacies need to be guaranteed a free pass. They get an extra look, but if they're not a fit, it isn't doing them or the sorority any favors to admit them to a new member class.

Yes. Along with Peggy PNM, who has no relation at all. Let each PNM, and chapter, stand on their own merits, here and now, and be free to make their own choices and be supported by all.

If you want to recognize the coincidence of family relationships, do it after you pledge Patty or Pammy, when you initiate her.

So are you saying we should get rid of giving any special consideration to legacies?

I think the organizations themselves consider it more than a "coincidence" and regard it as a unique way to bring something extra to the sisterhood.

But if the time has come that it's unsustainable even at the relaxed level of having to invite a girl to second round and if you like her enough to put her on the bid list, she has to be on the first one, maybe it's time.

For some families and for some organizations, it is more than just a "coincidence."

There was a great article called "The Legacy of Legacies" in the summer issue of the Theta magazine. It explained that "legacies are a subject near and dear to Thetas' hearts."

And personally, I hope that for all groups they can continue to be an important part of things. But it seems like it gets harder and harder as things get bigger and bigger in terms of the number of people going through, etc.

I had thought the same thing. However, there is the argument that this might allow the big chapters to become bigger etc.

Now if there was a way you could guarantee each chapter would receive the same number of "free legacies" it might work.

And for what it is worth, *in general*, IFCs tend to think of legacies as "free" since there aren't quotas or total.

I agree. I went to a school where this wasn't really a problem, so I've learned a lot from reading this thread. I think there are a lot of important questions to look into.

Hmmm what an interesting question. Would their younger sister be a legacy? I wonder if a HQ has ever tackled THAT issue, or how that would be specified... adopted sisters?? :p

Adopted sisters are legally sisters. So yes. Carnation has several adopted children who have joined sororities. Their younger siblings are all legacies to their adopted sisters' sororities, as well as being a legacy to Carnation's sorority. If you legally share the same parents, you're sisters.

ETA: Step-siblings, however, are not automatically counted as legacies in many sororities. I think this is changing with many groups, as blended families are becoming more of the norm.