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-   -   Is Georgia going to execute an Innocent man? (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=88689)

DaemonSeid 07-16-2007 08:08 AM

Is Georgia going to execute an Innocent man?
 
The pending execution of Troy Anthony Davis, scheduled to take place on July 17, is raising serious questions about his guilt — and about the Newt Gingrich-era federal law that has limited his appeals options and prevented him, say his supporters, from getting a fair shake.

Davis, 38, a former coach in the Savannah Police Athletic League who had signed up for the Marines, was convicted in the 1989 murder of Mark Allen MacPhail, a Savannah, Ga., police officer. MacPhail was off-duty when he was shot dead in a Savannah parking lot while responding to an assault. Davis was at the scene of the crime, and an acquaintance who was there with him accused Davis of being the shooter.


http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...643384,00.html

mulattogyrl 07-16-2007 11:21 AM

You can send e-mails/fax/call to the Georgia State Board of Pardons and Parole, that is, if you choose to :cool: Here are some websites:

http://www.ncadp.org/

www.amnestyusa.org/abolish

OneTimeSBX 07-16-2007 11:31 AM

wooow. how sad for the family.

i do hope that something works out for this man. guilty or not, he definately doesnt have the proof/evidence against him that would call for the death penalty...

i cant believe he even got it and the murder weapon was never found. probably just because he killed a police officer. its a shame this is just being seen by the general public, he only has one day left to appeal it...

honeychile 07-16-2007 11:03 PM

Didn't he just get a 90-day reprieve? If there's even a doubt, I hope so!

ASUADPi 07-17-2007 01:35 PM

Today's the day I wonder what will happen.

I am beyond appalled that a new trial hasn't been permitted, especially when 1) 7 of the 9 witnesses recanted 2) the weapon wasn't found and 3) no evidence was linking him to the crime. All of that is completely circumstancial evidence at best.

OneTimeSBX 07-17-2007 01:39 PM

^^ here is what happened...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/16....ap/index.html

how exciting for him and his family. every little bit helps...

ASUADPi 07-17-2007 02:03 PM

Like I feel bad for the officers wife and family, but come on now, when the evidence is pointing that the person convicted of the crime is INNOCENT shouldn't you be wanting to find the GUILTY person?

I've never been in a situation like that, but you see it all to many times in the media that the victims are so gung ho on convicting someone and having someone to blame that they don't really "see" the evidence and that the person being tried might not be the guilty party.

That is definately one of the flaws in our justice system (convicting possibly innocent people)

DrPhil 09-21-2011 06:54 PM

Four years later and he has run out of his legal options. He is scheduled for execution in 6 minutes (7:00pm).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44592285...rts/?GT1=43001

ASUADPi 09-21-2011 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASUADPi (Post 1486640)
Today's the day I wonder what will happen.

I am beyond appalled that a new trial hasn't been permitted, especially when 1) 7 of the 9 witnesses recanted 2) the weapon wasn't found and 3) no evidence was linking him to the crime. All of that is completely circumstancial evidence at best.

4 years later and I still stand by what I originally said.

AGDLynn 09-21-2011 07:06 PM

So why did his lawyer wait until today to ask for a polygraph?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Davis_case

Tulip86 09-21-2011 07:17 PM

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

This is exactly why I strongly oppose the death penalty. It's inexcusable to kill (some would call it execute) someone when there is even a hint of doubt.

DSTRen13 09-21-2011 07:37 PM

Life & death ought to be the business of God, NOT the state.

KSUViolet06 09-21-2011 07:41 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...cution-delayed

Yes.

Hopefully something comes of this.

thetaj 09-21-2011 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tulip86 (Post 2093566)
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

This is exactly why I strongly oppose the death penalty. It's inexcusable to kill (some would call it execute) someone when there is even a hint of doubt.

I'm not so sure it's okay without any doubt, either :/ idk. Who are we to take away everything from another human being.

Tulip86 09-21-2011 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2093571)
I'm not so sure it's okay without any doubt, either :/ idk. Who are we to take away everything from another human being.

too true

agzg 09-21-2011 08:39 PM

Wow at the police officer's mother's statement... I get that this is hard for her to go through, but...

Quote:

“I’m absolutely devastated because I want it over with. ... They’ve been through the courts four times there in Georgia. They’ve been to the Supreme Court three times," Anneliese MacPhail said in an interview from her home, referring to previous delays. "This delay, again, is very upsetting and I think very unfair to us."
"I think very unfair to us."

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/21...ion/?hpt=hp_t1

DrPhil 09-21-2011 08:40 PM

I don't blame her. I would feel the same way if I felt the correct person was convicted of the crime.

The prosecutors keep saying they have the right person for the crime.

agzg 09-21-2011 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2093591)
I don't blame her. I would feel the same way if I felt the correct person was convicted of the crime.

The prosecutors keep saying they have the right person for the crime.

I don't know - I'm less concerned about fairness to the victim's family when you consider the finality of an execution. Saying that it's tiring to go through this again and again? Sure. Saying something is unfair to you because his lawyers are doing their jobs? Yeah, I'm really not so concerned with fairness for them.

AOEforme 09-21-2011 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agzg (Post 2093595)
I don't know - I'm less concerned about fairness to the victim's family when you consider the finality of an execution. Saying that it's tiring to go through this again and again? Sure. Saying something is unfair to you because his lawyers are doing their jobs? Yeah, I'm really not so concerned with fairness for them.

The thing that also irritated me was that she used "feel" a lot. ("I feel he is guilty". "We feel he is guilty").

For this type of absolute punishment, you need an absolute certainty. You can't kill people you "feel" are guilty.

Yes, I know he went to trial and yes, I know he was found guilty. BUT, the American Justice system (especially in a case with doubt as rampant as this one) is not an absolute.

Besides, if he isn't guilty, don't you want to know what really happened? People just fixate too much on a comfortable truth, without any regard as to if it is the actual truth.

DrPhil 09-21-2011 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agzg (Post 2093595)
I don't know - I'm less concerned about fairness to the victim's family when you consider the finality of an execution. Saying that it's tiring to go through this again and again? Sure. Saying something is unfair to you because his lawyers are doing their jobs? Yeah, I'm really not so concerned with fairness for them.

Yeah well that is why there is always more than two sides to a story. I understand why the victim's family feels as they do. It is not their fault that this is happening. If they believe he is guilty, they believe he is guilty. It is painful for everyone involved.

KSUViolet06 09-21-2011 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOEforme (Post 2093601)
Besides, if he isn't guilty, don't you want to know what really happened? People just fixate too much on a comfortable truth, without any regard as to if it is the actual truth.

From the perspective of the family, it's hard to deal with the fact that what you believed to be true, might not be true anymore. If he's not guilty, it's painful for them just because now they have no clue who did this and have to start from square one (reliving the whole thing and trying to find the real killer.)

This is not to say that I think they should execute someone in the face of immense doubt just to satisfy a familial need for closure (I'm against capital punishment for a variety of reasons.) I'm just saying that that's where they might be coming from.


AOEforme 09-21-2011 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2093611)
From the perspective of the family, it's hard to deal with the fact that what you believed to be true, might not be true anymore. If he's not guilty, it's painful for them just because now they have no clue who did this and have to start from square one (reliving the whole thing and trying to find the real killer.)

This is not to say that you should execute someone in the face of immense doubt just to placate a family, but I'm just saying that that's where they might be coming from.


No, I get that. It's hard to feel that the evil guilty person who stole your son/brother/etc. from you is "getting off" scot free. (Look at random people with Casey Anthony.....).

I just don't ever think another death justifies, rectifies, or amends the first. I don't think it can really soothe the heartache of having a loved one stolen from you.

wareagle 09-21-2011 09:23 PM

This case is ridiculous.

Some many of the people who took the stand during Davis' trial have come back and said that were "coerced" or something along those lines. The American Justice system is extremely flawed. Casey Anthony got off, the jury citing a "lack of evidence" and Troy Davis is just days away from his death when there is an even greater lack of it? I don't want to turn this into a racial debate, but it's obvious that it's playing a big role here...

DrPhil 09-21-2011 09:35 PM

While the justice system is flawed and there are strong racial and social class issues (and other demographicsa and dynamics), I find it interesting that many people only highlight these issues when they personally disagree with a particular outcome. That is what happened when people were crying over Casey Anthony. The flaws of the justice system don't conveniently appear and disappear based on people's personal opinions.

If he is indeed innocent, I hope for justice for Troy Davis and for the families involved. No one is to blame for this perceived miscarriage of justice except for those who are accused of the perceived miscarriage of justice.

AOEforme 09-21-2011 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2093628)
While the justice system is flawed and there are strong racial and social class issues (and other demographicsa and dynamics), I find it interesting that many people only highlight these issues when they personally disagree with a particular outcome. That is what happened when people were crying over Casey Anthony. The flaws of the justice system don't conveniently appear and disappear based on people's personal opinions.

If he is indeed innocent, I hope for justice for Troy Davis and for the families involved. No one is to blame for this perceived miscarriage of justice except for those who are accused of the perceived miscarriage of justice.

I agree with you 100% on this.

MysticCat 09-21-2011 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2093605)
Yeah well that is why there is always more than two sides to a story. I understand why the victim's family feels as they do. It is not their fault that this is happening. If they believe he is guilty, they believe he is guilty. It is painful for everyone involved.

This, and while I can certainly find fault with a lawyer, police officer or whoever saying "we feel he his guilty," I won't criticize the victim's family for saying it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2093628)
While the justice system is flawed and there are strong racial and social class issues (and other demographicsa and dynamics), I find it interesting that many people only highlight these issues when they personally disagree with a particular outcome. That is what happened when people were crying over Casey Anthony. The flaws of the justice system don't conveniently appear and disappear based on people's personal opinions.

And this. I also find it interesting that the system is "extremely flawed" based on these few "celebrity" examples that are a very small percentage of the trials held every year.

The system certainly has flaws, and one of those flaws is that the system relies on people, who make mistakes. Without question, we need to work to make the system better and fairer, but we can't ever think that there is a perfect system.

Quote:

If he is indeed innocent, I hope for justice for Troy Davis and for the families involved. No one is to blame for this perceived miscarriage of justice except for those who are accused of the perceived miscarriage of justice.
And this, except for the last bit. If Troy Davis is indeed innocent, isn't it also possible that those "accused of the perceived miscarriage of justice" may be wrongly accused? No one is to blame except for those who are actually responsible.

DrPhil 09-21-2011 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2093632)
And this, except for the last bit. If Troy Davis is indeed innocent, isn't it also possible that those "accused of the perceived miscarriage of justice" may be wrongly accused? No one is to blame except for those who are actually responsible.

Exactly. This is all perceived and accused until proven otherwise.

AOEforme 09-21-2011 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2093632)
And this, except for the last bit. If Troy Davis is indeed innocent, isn't it also possible that those "accused of the perceived miscarriage of justice" may be wrongly accused? No one is to blame except for those who are actually responsible.

I don't think any sane person would disagree with you on this point. From my perspective, there is no clear picture of who is being wrongfully accused. After all, it is the burden of the prosecution to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that he is guilty and the length of the SCOTUS debate alone makes me think they have failed to do so.

(Of course, I am as far from a lawyer as you can get so I am probably wrong on many of these points, and I will of course concede to GC's resident lawyer.)

I also don't believe he should be executed, as I don't believe anyone should every be put to death, but that is something I personally feel and believe. (I even include the white supremacist in Texas who was put to death today in Texas's 11th execution this year.)

MysticCat 09-21-2011 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOEforme (Post 2093636)
I don't think any sane person would disagree with you on this point. From my perspective, there is no clear picture of who is being wrongfully accused. After all, it is the burden of the prosecution to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that he is guilty and the length of the SCOTUS debate alone makes me think they have failed to do so.

It is the jury that has to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, not SCOTUS. The role of an appellate court is not to re-examine the evidence, but to ensure that a trial was fair (in terms of constitutional rights, proper legal procedure, etc.) and free of error that might have prejudiced the defendant. While an appellate court can find the there was not evidence from which a reasonable jury could have determined guilt, an appellate court cannot substitute its view of the evidence for the jury's.

AOEforme 09-21-2011 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2093637)
It is the jury that has to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, not SCOTUS. The role of an appellate court is not to re-examine the evidence, but to ensure that a trial was fair (in terms of constitutional rights, proper legal procedure, etc.) and free of error that might have prejudiced the defendant. While an appellate court can find the there was not evidence from which a reasonable jury could have determined guilt, an appellate court cannot substitute its view of the evidence for the jury's.

See I knew I had something incorrect. Thank you!

So (just to make sure I am understanding this), SCOTUS will be able to evaluate if there was coercion, a mistrial, falsified evidence, etc. but not be able to evaluate if the prosecution actually proved guilt?

AGDLynn 09-21-2011 10:31 PM

US Supreme Court Denies Appeal
 
Execution will happen.

MysticCat 09-21-2011 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOEforme (Post 2093638)
So (just to make sure I am understanding this), SCOTUS will be able to evaluate if there was coercion, a mistrial, falsified evidence, etc. but not be able to evaluate if the prosecution actually proved guilt?

Close. SCOTUS will be able to review decisions of lower courts about these things to determine whether the lower courts committed some error or need to reconsider anything. This includes whatever may be in the record about the evidence offered at trial or the degree to which evidence might be questionable. Ultimately, this could include a finding such as that jury heard evidence that it should not have heard, rendering its verdict unreliable.

In such a case, the result is a new trial, so that a new jury can hear the proper evidence (assuming the prosecution doesn't drop the case), because only a jury can determine guilt.

AOEforme 09-21-2011 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2093643)
Close. SCOTUS will be able to review decisions of lower courts about these things to determine whether the lower courts committed some error or need to reconsider anything. This includes whatever may be in the record about the evidence offered at trial or the degree to which evidence might be questionable. Ultimately, this could include a finding such as that jury heard evidence that it should not have heard, rendering its verdict unreliable.

In such a case, the result is a new trial, so that a new jury can hear the proper evidence (assuming the prosecution doesn't drop the case), because only a jury can determine guilt.

Thanks for the explanation.

CutiePie2000 09-21-2011 10:39 PM

I need to read up a bit more about this Georgia situation, as I don't know much about what's happening...

However, the whole debacle of a miscarriage of justice potentially about to happen reminds me of the miscarriage of justice of what happened to David Milgaard in Canada: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Milgaard
If my math is correct, David Milgaard was convicted at age 17 or 18, and did 23 years in prison for a crime he did not commit (and yes, they did catch the real rapist and killer later, which is this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Fisher)

KSUViolet06 09-21-2011 10:41 PM

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/21...ion/?hpt=hp_t1

SCOTUS has denied the request.

DeltaBetaBaby 09-21-2011 11:06 PM

You should be outraged whether he is innocent or not. It is long past time we abolished the death penalty.

Always AlphaGam 09-21-2011 11:14 PM

Mr. Davis was executed at 11:08 PM. :(

katydidKD 09-21-2011 11:21 PM

I'm speechless.

DrPhil 09-21-2011 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Always AlphaGam (Post 2093664)
Mr. Davis was executed at 11:08 PM. :(

While I was grocery shopping. I received a mass text from an acquaintance who lives on the west coast. It had all sorts of racial slurs aimed at whites and was talking about getting violent and rioting. Ummm...I was really bothered by that...really...it almost made me forget to pick up my gorgonzola salad.

Now is not the time for all of that. It is especially not the time considering that many people don't know what they are angry over beyond the surface level details that they have read. If people are outraged there are plenty of nonviolent ways to have a voice and fight toward change.

/end rant

KSUViolet06 09-22-2011 12:34 AM

My hope is that maybe this causes other states to examine similar capital punishment cases (there are probably many more just like Mr. Davis on death row.) Will that actually happen? Who knows.


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