Too fat to recruit: or, DePauw, the Sequel
 

I lurk at another message board where a number of the members are Greek. A few days ago, one of the members brought up a difficult situation she's going through:

She's a member of the smallest sorority at a big state school with a large and brutally competitive Greek system. She's also overweight. The sorority's national office has given the chapter orders to double their numbers within five years—despite reassuring them only a couple of years ago that their size was not a problem. As part of this plan, a national consultant has apparently instituted an "image requirement."

The young woman in question has been asked to stay away during this fall's recruitment. She knows it's because of her weight, though they didn't tell her that in so many words. Now she's heartbroken and wondering whether she should turn in her badge. (Another active has already resigned.)

In light of a certain recent media circus, you'd think national GLOs would think twice before planting the seeds of another one ... :(

I'll be brutal (yes, I'm overweight, but I'm old)...overweight young women need to realize that they could hurt the chapter as much as help it. This is not to say they cannot be important members with much to contribute. But as a wise national officer once said, in recruitment, first impressions are EVERYTHING. If this young lady can be mature about it, she can tell them that she understands, and offer to do something helpful behind the scenes during recruitment, or at least during the preparation week. Doesn't she want her chapter to survive?

Did anyone else see both a picture of the DePauw women who were allowed to stay and those who weren't? IMHO, the weight/looks issue was highly overstated - I actually thought that many of those asked to take alumna status looked much better than some who weren't.

But with Photoshop, who knows anymore?

I disagree. To me, much more important than the size of the girls who rushed me were their personalities. If you can talk to me and get me engaged, then you should be rushing me. If she's one heavy girl in an average sized sorority, her presence is not going to turn off girls from joining. And frankly if it did I wouldn't want those girls to be my sisters anyway.

The DZs at DePauw should have just shut up and taken it too if they really cared about their chapter, right? :rolleyes:

I'm kinda mixed on this. I understand the importance of image at a school where Greek life is everything. I also understand those who would not want to call someone a sister who judged the group solely on apperance.

I would think they could strike a compromise and let the girl do behind the scenes things for the first two or so rounds, but then let her attend prefs, as the "first impressions" stage would be over.

Well, say she and the other fat/fugly/what have you girls stay away from rush. The sorority does great with their "new image" and gets a pledge class full of adorable girls.

Then when those adorable girls show up for bid day, they notice that there are 1) sorority members that they haven't met before 2) most of those members are less attractive than the members who rushed them.

What are these new girls going to think? Don't you think they'll feel more than a bit taken, hoodwinked, bamboozled, etc? I would.

AnchorAlumna, what if this girl has a sparkling personality and tells the funniest stories ever and can put any rushee at ease? What if the "pretty" girls are bumps on logs? I wonder if the national consultant looked at that.

I think that if your situation is already this bad that people who are going through recruitment already know they wouldn't join your organization and if you've been labeled "fat" or "bad" or "small" then one or two fat girls in a room full of skinny girls may not make a difference.

The women who you are going to get coming back are the ones who are willing to see you for who you really are and won't care and like you. But there usually aren't a lot of those and if there are they usually like somewhere else as well.
They are more willing to go there because they don't have the same reputation despite recognizing that there's nothing wrong with your chapter. And then if you're lucky to get the ones "left over" and the few who truly don't' mind and really love you and if they are willing to accept the bid then you'd work from there.

If I were that woman mentioned by the OP, I would stick up for myself. Recruitment is about appearances, yes, but if she wants to be on the floor, speak up.

I know recruitment is about first impressions, but if it is that important to her, she should say her piece.

I also know that PNMs can be very judgmental and I know that at recruitment we want to show the best of the best about our chapter. If a member is going to let herself be steamrolled like this, though, she probably isn't going to be a good rusher-- fat, thin, hook-nosed or pigeon-toed. Someone who is a strong rusher is going to make a PNM forget all about those things within moments of meeting her, and I knew three such women in college who were members of the top chapters... they were exceptional and all of them were plus-sized. I realize these people are the exception (regardless of your body type!), but if you met these women-- wow.

ETA: if the chapter is in this much trouble and so small, they really can't afford to have anyone off the floor.

FAT LIKE ME
 

I'm 19, a member of a national GLO, and I wear a size 26. Does this mean that I am not going to be a good recruiter? You know nothing about me, you have never seen me or my chapter. I am a very active member in my chapter. All of my sisters know that if they need me, or can't go to something they've signed up for, they can call me. This will be my second recruitment on the inside. My chapter is on a campus where the other houses determine where girls will be placed on the stairwells determined by how pretty they are. I know that first impressions are everything, I did go through formal recruitment after all. No one has ever asked me to stay in the kitchen. We are also the smallest chapter on campus and have had headquarters breathing down our necks telling us that we need to RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT. Personally, the size of a sister doesn't matter. If you're going through rush to be a sister, you have to meet all of the women that you could potientally call your sisters. It's not fair to the PNMs or the sister. You're hurting the sister at the hope of getting a few more girls. If the PNMs are so shallow that they won't get to know a woman before making a judgement, then I wouldn't want them as my sister anyways. Quality over quantity.

I think this sort of thing is crushing no matter how outgoing you are normally. It's a betrayal by your sisters. She may yet stand up for herself once the hurt subsides and the anger at being treated like that grows.

Yep. That too. And if they bring in women from other chapters to fill the room, if the school is as competitive as it sounds, that will just SCREAM "desperate."

Yeah and I'm guessing that if your nationals is dictating that you hide certain members out of plain sight during recruitment, they're a) so desperate to get your numbers up that they're not seeing the big picture of how they're creating a division in the chapter, b) silently "cleaning house" of the dissenters, c) mentally packing up your charter.

First of all, I disagree with the "stay away during recruitment". There are so many things that need to be done during recruitment other than actually talking to the PNMs. I know in my chapter we had a few shy girls who didn't like to recruit, so they did Membership Selection or Refreshments, or helped with the props for the skit. None of these were considered better or worse than recruiting, just different.

Second of all, I think grooming is more important than actual size. If you wear clothing that flatters your size, then I don't see that size matters that much.

I remember a stuggling chapter during my recruitment had assistance from another school. I went to open house and first parties there, however I never spoke to a member of the actual chapter. I ended up dropping them after first parties, because I still had no idea what the vibe of the chapter was!

This sort of thing really bothers me.

Here's my issue: I have a mild case of cerebral palsy and I walk with a limp. If I were a member of an NPC, would I be asked not to participate?

I am one of the strongest "chatters" in both of my chapters. I have the ability to talk to anyone like they have been my best friend for 10 years, which gets us a lot of members.

Asking a member to "lay low" during recruitment is an injustice to her status as a sister and the PNMs coming through recruitment. She would not be able to meet any of the PNMs and therefore, she wouldn't be able to vote, right?

Voting on NMs is very important to me as an active member because it helps to ensure that we get quality members who will sustain the life of our chapter and uphold our reputation. She did not become a Pi Chi, possibly, for that very reason.

It's not right. This woman has rights as a sister and one of those is to actively participate in recruitment and bid decisions. She is apart of the image of the chapter. I would much more, worry about the sister that was seen sloshed drunk at a party before recruitment than a sister that is overwieght.

Other things could be contributing to their low numbers. I doubt it is solely based on the weight of this one girl.

I would not advise her to turn in her badge. If she feels betrayed, I would advise her to take alumae status. There are many opportunities and benefits to maintianing affiliation with the national organization.

I hope she takes a stand for herself and any others that may be in her situation.

This is superficial.

The people in that chapter and/or national organization who think this makes a grain of sense need to depledge.

Things like this make me a little ashamed to be Greek. I support going Greek at my school. I just really don't think we have that problem here. I haven't noticed it, anyway. Not that it's all peachy keen 24/7, but I don't see image as an issue on this campus. Everyone gets to participate in Recruitment. But I don't support that type of Greek system. Sorry. To be that judgemental AFTER promising to be a supportive sister to every OTHER sister is against my personal values.

I know I'm idealistic, it won't change, blahblahblah...but if sisters will damage another sisters' self esteem like that because they are actively recruiting girls who won't want to join their organization if there's one overweight girl...something is wrong. Something needs to be changed. Me, personally...I would have a large problem with admitting PNMs that judgemental into my chapter. I've only been on the "other side" once so far, but I haven't met one like that yet...thank goodness.

OT! You have Lady Sovereign in your signature. I LOVE YOU!

Also I agree with you.

This is sad. I think it's unfortunate that this is happening to women who have so much to do for their chapter.

But I also think it is important to note that PNMs DO make very rash decisions based on appearance. I also feel like theres a difference between a woman whos overweight, but she knows how to carry herself and dresses to fit her size - a woman like that, you barely notice she's a big girl - and a women who is overweight and dresses sloppily. Yes, a sorority is more than image, but do any us recruit wearing sweatpants and unwashed hair? No. I'm not saying these heavy women are ugly or sloppy - I'm just saying that we KNOW that when it comes to recruitment you MUST LOOK YOUR BEST.

I see it as a drastic, unfortunate move by that chapters Nationals, but I can also see where nationals is coming from. Unfortunately, they've chosen to hurt sisters in order to "salvage" what they feel they want their "national reputation" to be.

bah. whether the girl is sloppy or not, being told by your sisters that you should stay in the back for rush in low. they could have just as easily helped her pick out clothes or offered to do her hair "just for fun" if that was really the problem. sounds like just another shallow group of bitches to me.

edit: well, would you mind posting a link to the origional story? i should read what she said exactly before making such a harsh judgement.

Over weight does not equal sloppy. I know of one bigger girl in my chapter that looks about 10 times better than I do on a regular basis. She never goes out without her make up, nails, and hair done. And she can dress ten times better than I can.

PNMs that won't join a chapter just because there is an overweight woman in it are absolutely useless to me. I'm not personally interested in them whatsoever, no matter what THEIR looks, grades, etc. are. They can take it somewhere else.

And if she did not know how to dress or do her hair to her best advantage, why not have some sisters do a "just for fun" makeover, like another poster suggested? It's an easy fix. Make up and hair and clothes that fit the body type make worlds and worlds of difference.

I do believe that it's best to recruit while well groomed. I DON'T think there's a weight limit on that.

If all of this is true, then being a Greek is shallow.

We had a member who was hanicapped and was one of the best members we had for getting things done. He was not worried about so neither were we. He was part of us so everybody took him as one thing only, a Brother of LXA at our chapter.

When ADPi was on our campus, they were called ADPigs.:mad: They were the first to recognize us as a local and several LX's married their members. We did a lot of things together when some of the sooty ones did not want to be around us. Sad to say, they are no longer on campus and would love to see them come back!

KD, came on campus and according to the Pixs had some very lovely girls. They lasted 2 years. Why, I do not know.:(

Go back to HS and see the beauties who are no longer or the wall flowers who are beauties now!:D

The person inside the skin form is much bigger a person than many and will give more for the love.

Hi, I am Barbi and I belong to ABC, we are neat, no, they are bimbos in many ways!:rolleyes:

Hm, must have changed your name on GC. Doesn't make any difference does it?:rolleyes:

Still just you.:eek:

Although the OP was pretty vague about the situation, I needed to weigh in on the concept (no pun intended)--that people who are overweight cannot recruit. My chapter was extremely eclectic, with girls that wore a size 0 to girls that probably wore a size 26 or more. As others have said, size does not matter at all--personality is what counts. The best recruiters from my chapter were not those who looked the best, they were the women who showed who they really were, were involved on campus, and were women that others looked up to. Now, this could just be in my case (but I have a sneaking suspicion it's not), but the chapter I was in was the largest, most award winning sorority on campus. The idea that looks=quality is what makes GLOs look bad. It's a negative stereotype that we should work harder to dispel. :(

You're an idiot. This young lady can be mature about it and stick up for her feelings. Why should she have to just shrug behind the scenes to be mature? This is the most shallow post I've ever read on GC.

Wow. I actually agree with this post.

Exactly. That sounds about like mine...and we WERE the most award winning...I'm not sure that we still are. :( We would be second though. And we have girls from all walks of life. No chapter is perfect, but I can't imagine looking twice at one that valued looks that much...and, like I've said, me, personally...I'm not interested in PNMs like that either.

Agreed. I'm glad to hear so many opinions like this in this thread. I hope very much that those who believe or think otherwise look inside themselves and realize that this is a very superficial and unkind way to be. :(

That's a rough situation. Really, the chapter should not ask her to do that; as others have stated, they need her desperately on the floor, and it's not right. Sisters don't treat each other like that.

HOWEVER...

I am somewhat hesitant to believe that this is the whole story. Because it is told by the young woman herself, it's very possible this is NOT the real story. Often people who are insecure about one part of themselves [e.g. weight, appearance, intelligence/school, etc] blame all their problems on that one thing. It's very possible that last year at recruitment, she was detrimental to the chapter because of her personality or other reasons. However, I very much doubt that she would say, "They don't want me to come to recruitment because I am dull and PNM's can't talk to me."

I'm not saying she IS, of course, but it's a definate possibility that I'm not willing to overlook.

Wow. I don't even know where to start with this. This is just so wrong on so many levels.

So just because a sister is overweight, she should have to hide herself from the PNM's? WTF??? I don't think so. Oh hell no. Perhaps YOU should be more mature and be understanding towards those members that are not thin & perfect.

Jeezuz. I'm going to stop here. This is just freaking ridiculous.

I agree with everything PM_Mama said.

Maybe this girl was asked not to show up to recruitment not because of her appearance but because of her personality? If a girl is overweight or not good with personal grooming, you can "suggest" some tips or give her a makeover all you want, but it's not going to make up for her personality. A sorority can control what its members wear during recruitment, however, it has no way of controlling the things that come out of its members' mouths.

True, but it's still unfair for her to be excluded from recruitment, whether it's because she's fat, or because she has a shy, awkward, or strange personality. She is still a SISTER. Some people take sisterhood more seriously than others, but still, if she is in the chapter, why should she be left out of recruiting new members? There could be another quality young woman that relates to her personality, and can add to the chapter's personality in ways that the outgoing, beautiful, talkative ladies cannot. :confused:

I'll entertain that thought. But, that leaves me with just another question. If she has a horrible personality and oral diarrhea how did she recieve a bid in the first place?

Good question. I'd keep in mind that their numbers have been very low recently.

We really don't have enough information, with this biased perspective from just the one girl.

The SADDEST part about this all, is that this is not an isolated incident. This occurs ALL the time-- with chapters that are struggling or not. I have heard accounts from women from different STRONG chapters that have been forced to "hide in the kitchen" because they aren't the "face of XYZ" or they don't "fit the image of ABC." Out of 200 women in a chapter, these women are the 3 or 4 who don't meet their new members until bid day, but who have worked just as hard behind the scenes.

The fact that this occurs more often than most people realize just goes to show the culture of greek organizations. The fact that it happens shows that people allow looks and size to matter to them. If it REALLY didn't matter to PNM's, why would the chapters still do it?
I think most of us here on GC don't have the "stereotypical sorority girl" mindset and we hold ourselves to higher standards than that.

But the fact is, at some schools, in our very own chapters at those schools, this is the NORM.

I wish I knew the whole story. However, it seems to me that this could have been handled by the membership chair when she started making assignments. Asking someone to not show up at all really seems to be pushing them out the door.:(

I'm still close with Laura, a girl from my high school who was a couple of years older than me. She joined a sorority in college. When she was a junior, a girl went through recruitment (we'll call her Alexis) who seemed overly enthusiastic and tended to turn people away from her. Enough of my friend's chapter figured that she was just nervous about recruitment and voted to put her on the bid list. After bid day, they discovered that Alexis wasn't just acting that way because of recruitment. When she became an active, she would talk about inappropriate topics at recruitment and generally, every PNM that she talked to would not come back to Laura's chapter for the following round. After several semesters of this, she was asked to stay in the back during recruitment or not show up because PNM's were talking about her and she was hurting their recruitment efforts. Alexis was a size 16. This had nothing to do with her size.

I have to go with AnchorAlumna and FanASTic on this one. First, we haven't heard the whole story. The woman's overweight but she could be a total jerk and maybe she dropped through the cracks and got a bid in a weird way. Don't laugh, I've even seen it happen to competitive sororities--these girls are called slip-throughs. Now if it is only because she's overweight, that's mean.

The other thing is, as AnchorAlum says: teenagers (ie, PNMs) are often very shallow. You know how many times people have said on here that they didn't want of be part of the fat-girl sorority. I suupose that's where her group is coming from. I saw a sorority's page in a rush booklet a few years back and it displayed a picture of the last year's pledge class; over half were extremely overweight. I told my husband that that sorority had probably just signed their death warrant and sure enough, they were gone in no time.

No, I'm not saying that what this sorority did was right. I'm just trying to figure out where they're coming from..but I have to wonder if we've heard the whole story.

Did they TALK to her about it, or simply decide on their own to do this? That would be the difference in the situation. If they truly cared about their sisterhood, they would have spoken to her, even offered to help her with finding better topics to discuss and which ones to stay away from--instead of shoving her in the back... Again, that's just my opinion, though.

All I know of this story is what I was told by my friend. However, after going through formal recruitment, I think it's fair to say that it's a stressful time for both the sororities and the PNM's and sometimes, a sorority just doesn't have enough members so that one of them can "babysit" another sister to make sure that she's not saying things that are inappropriate or scare off PNM's. It may not be the most politically correct way of doing things, but as several posters above me have stated, not all PNM's have the most politically ways of choosing a sorority.

But, again, as other posters have said, are the girls who choose their sorority in a flippant way the young women that will keep the sisterhood alive and thriving? Or are they the ones that will quit after a few tough recruitments, or another ridiculous reason?