NPHC Greeks - how do you feel about this?
 

In the past few years, I've seen several NPC and NIC groups' websites where they make reference to their "sands", "crossing", "line brothers/sisters" and other terms that previously were used pretty much exclusively by NPHC groups. A lot of the time, these are at schools that aren't just predominantly white, they're REALLY predominantly white.

Does this tick you off, or do you just find it sort of silly?

I'm glad you posted this, because I was looking at facebook photos of one of our nearby chapters, and they take line pictures and pictures of them making handsigns wearing crossing jackets. I just don't get it. Your school has both NPHC and multicultural sororities. If you like the way they do things, why did you try to join one of those instead?

And another note, after going through the ASA group, I have found at least four different handsigns- each one from a different chapter. Why are some of them so intent on having one?

Are any of them the one I sugested of setting your hands on fire? No? Damn. :D

I've not seen this from SKs but that doesn't mean it's not out there. My chapter had jackets, but, like KSUViolet's they're windbreakers or hoodies, not line jackets.

setting our hands on fire?

In the handsign thread, I joked that ASAs handsign should be a phoenix. And to be dedicated they should set their hands on fire. :p I say it with love, you know that.

I must've missed that thread.

I do think that's kinda weird, but each to his own. I'm of the mind that if you want all that...why not join an NPC or multicultural organization? I guess there might be campuses where that is not offered.

It just seems like Greek plagarism.

D9 has set trends over the last 100 years and will continue to set trends well into the next 100 years.

I used to get upset if some non-D9 group did anything remotely related to our traditions. Now, I just shake my head and move on because imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. *shrugs shoulders*

I thought this was funny:

White Chicks and Gang signs . . lol

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KKTDRqQtPO8

It makes me no difference. NPHC doesn't corner the market on words. For many NPHC groups, "crossing the burning sands" is just a phrase in the first place.

When it comes to NPC and NIC Greeks having crossing jackets... so? What's a crossing jacket anyway? I know NPCs and NICs may have nicknames or pledge names, too. Otherwise, why not have a jacket that reps your chapter, season you pledged, etc?

Not simply with reference to ASA, but several NPC groups have a history of using hand signs, so it can only be natural for them to develop one that can be used in public. I don't see hand signs as something that NPC groups "copied" from NPHC; hand signs have been around for centuries.

You can put all that on a jacket without making it in the style of a "crossing jacket."

What's wrong with having it in that style?

I personally don't get why girls in the NPC would put their line numbers on jackets. And ASA is not the only sorority there that does that.

The handsigns could be a joke. My chapter used to have one that started as a joke. One of the sororities always does a "woo woo" thing with one of their chants. One of my sisters noticed that when you watch sports games, it looks like people are saying "woo, woowoo" so we started doing that. They don't always start because of NPHC, some just start as a joke.

Nothing, I just don't understand why you would want to do something that makes you look like you're biting off another group.

NPC/NIC groups have had jackets and such for years, but the things I'm talking about are fairly recent - they're not long-held traditions for them or something. I was under the impression crossing jackets were so correct me if I'm wrong.

I understand what you're saying.

NPHC organizations have shared ideas and practices with NPC and NIC orgs for a long time. Sure, crossing jackets as we now know them may have been around since the 70s. But to me, it's just a jacket.

And don't forget.... just because one org in the NPHC does things doesn't mean it was truly meant to be shared by the entire NPHC. Ten years ago, I only knew the Ques to wear painted boots and it was more or less a national thing. Ten years later, I've seen Alphas with one black boot and one gold boot, Sigmas with blue boots, APO members at HBCUs with gold boots with blue laces....

I know that was a long tangent to just say that it doesn't matter, lol.

Agreed. Blacks Greeks can't be myopic about this. We basically took over much of the structure, terminology and traditions of existing GLOs in founding our organizations.If my understanding of history serves me, members of white GLOS gave founders of some of our BGLOs their ritual to help them on their way.And the founders of my fraternity did library research on fraternities to help them when they decided they wanted to form a fraternity. So, in a sense, there has been some interchange of traditions. Similarly, GLOs took over traditions and practices from the literary and debating societies, which in turn drew heavily on practices and traditions in the guilds of scholars of the Middle Ages.There's no place for any hatin' in this game!This is the way it's always been, if you see the big picture.

Doesn't bother me. In fact the term sands means different things within org in the NPHC depending on the chapter. Where I pledged in IL., we didn't use the term at all. We used a different one to denote someone who crossed with you in the same chapter.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

If you borrow, just give respect to where you got it from. If you don't know, find out.

Similar to the respect that GLOs that came before the NPHC orgs should be given for the things the NPHC learned and "borrowed" from them.

****

As far as why NPC members wouldn't just join an NPHC org if they like the way we do things:
Many traditions aren't attached to our specific founding purposes. So women who don't want to be in an organization with a starting purpose of being a vessel for black college women and servicing the black community, don't have to join an NPHC sorority just b/c they like to wear "line jackets" or call each other "sands."

That would be superficial and an insult to the depth of our organizations.

Very true!

People borrow, steal, adopt, adapt, and all sorts of stuff.

What's funniest is when people debate over who REALLY started certain traditions. Like who stole the cane from whom. Wake me when that debate is over.

Exactly! That was a very offensive remark.

I think its not that big of a deal. I think there is already too much division amongst fraternities and sororities based on race. These phrases are not copyrighted. If its a major problem maybe the NPHC should file to have them copyrighted for their private use. I mean we say by becoming initiated you have been welcomed to the brotherhood but thats not copyrighted.

I went to a black college so only NPHC GLOs existed on our campus. I can't speak for other GLOs but only our founding fathers created our rituals. We weren't jump started by another GLO that already existed.

Personally, hearing this surprised me. I always thought NPC/IFC had done their own thing while we did ours. Now that I know this, yeah it does kind of bother me. This is a personal opinion so I hope I'm not offending any other organizations, but I think NPHC GLOs are unique in our own way. Our traditions imitate no others. I think we are often imitated but never duplicated as far as stepping, and greek clothing, and now from what I'm hearing, other GLOs calling each other sands? and now using the term crossing?

Lets not forget, we were started because we were not excepted into NPC/IFC GLOs, so in turn we started our own. African American students didn't have support groups back then. On the white campuses like IU and Cornell, black students would go weeks without seeing another black student, so with NPHC GLOs starting, they made great support groups for black students, so I don't see us actually copying anyone at all. We've done our own thing for the past 100 years and will continue to do our own thing. Basically, no I don't like to see any sororities or fraternities within the NPHC umbrella group imitated at all.

And again, when did the NPHC become a monolith? Alpha has more in common with Malik Fraternity, Inc., than some NPHC orgs.

NPHC traditions DO imitate others. Greek letters, rituals, grips, passwords, and handsigns didn't get created in a vacuum. The organizational structure wasn't unique. And as our organizations matured, we assumed the characteristics of our communities.

Where I'm from, the neighborhoods have calls and chants. Did NPHC orgs do it first? Does it really matter?

Did we have crossing jackets in 1906 or did they evolve over time?

We need perspective here.... sure, I agree with Chaos when she says traditions need to be acknowledged. But everything else is literally just a facade.

It's funny you should mention this. When I was in undergrad, BGLOs did not have calls or handsigns (nor did Deltas collect elephants.) But Black students from various states did. The Delta call sounds very similar to what was then the New York call.

I don't think anyone said that the Founders of our orgs did not create our rituals, but maybe the rits were influenced by other orgs such as the Masons, OES, or even other GLOs. Unless you talked to your Founders personally how would you know this didn't happen?

Just how unique are we? And to say our traditions imitate no other is incorrect. In fact the history of stepping did not start with BGLOs. And many of the traditions to which you refer began in the last 30 years are less--crossing jackets, hand signs, calls, etc. And as I said before even the term Sands is not universally used the same within the NPHC.

Interesting analogy since most of the NPHC orgs were founded at a HBCU. And if Black folx went for weeks at a PWI without seeing another Black student, how in the heck were they able to form a fraternity/sorority? There had to have been some kind of mechanism for them to come together.

Do you think some of this could be a trend based in part on the universal appeal of hip-hop culture among young people? Sometimes I'm surprised by the music/dance/language/clothing that suburban kids of all colors enjoy today that would have made them posers when I was in high school/college. But they all seem to be okay with it...so isn't that a good thing?

I am confused--what does hip hop have to do with this discussion?

I'm not sure, but I THINK it could have been a vague reference to gang signs and hand signals being similar. I'm attempting to decipher what it meant, as well.

I see you and ladygreek's points, but the crossing jackets, the hand signs, and the terminology that we use is unique among our organizations and is not used among NPC/IFC organizations, at least not where I'm from.

ladygreek, you asked how BGLOs could get started without seeing another black student for weeks at a time. I was getting the impression that you thought this couldn't be possible. At IU it was possible, and it did happen. Our fraternity started off as Alpha Omega just to hold the 10 men together while the fraternity was being created. I can't speak for the other 8 GLOs, but I can for mine and it's history is accurate. Yes, black students would go days to weeks without seeing another black student.

And when my grandmother pledged in '59, those things were not a part of her experience either.

The bolded bit is interesting.

But that is my point. Rather than to continue to allow that to happen a support group was formed--Alpha Omega, which I guess became Kappa Alpha Nu. Thus those 10 Black men saw each other often I would assume.

Having first gone to a PWI that only had 50 Black students, we found ways to get together and be each other's support. So was IU's campus so big that folx literally didn't see each other?

When I pledged we had sweaters not jackets. The other non-BGLOs had sweaters, too. The sweaters became windbreakers, then coach jackets.

In other words, not any of these current "traditions" are set in stone. And at least in Delta they are not listed in our Protocol and Traditions Manual as such. Who knows what the future generations of BGLOs will adopt?

Precisely.

Black folks almost had support groups of some sort. They just became formalized Greek lettered organizations in the early 1900s.

I've seen photos of my ol skool family members' sweaters from the 50s and 60s. Adorable. I have seen some 80s Sorors bringing them back and wearing them to homecomings. I got one passed down to me from a 60s Soror and opted to keep it as a keep sake instead of wearing it.

Sands definitely has a different meaning if you crossed in the state of Illinois!

Beginning with s and ending with p? :D